Bar Owners May Turn Tables On Smoking Ban Lawmakers

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I think there would be less backlash if they banned it in the casinos also though.

There is a county here that has also banned transfats from being used in restaurants, which I also think is B.S. I just think that should be the business owner's decision, not something that should be regulated. I also think that should be the choice of the person who goes to a restaurant. If someone wants to eat transfats, they should be allowed to.

This I will agree with.

This is a personal choice. I can order something from the menu that is good for me, or I can order something that is bad. Or I can go to a different place. If I'm eating out at a restaurant, I don't expect that the food is going to be good for me, anyway.

If they want to require restaurants to put the calorie count on the menu, I can deal with that (although I still don't completely agree with it). But demanding that they serve certain items, or don't include fats/sodium/carbs etc. in the food is ridiculous.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Workers who need the money would accept all kinds of environments. We've decided as a society that it's not OK to ask your staff to breathe asbestos or clean skyscraper windows without a safety line. It's wrong, and it ends up imposing costs on the rest of society when the workers get hurt. Tobacco smoke is no different from other workplace hazards.

Exactly.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And I wouldn't exempt casinos . . . if we had them here.

No?

[AGDee]

I think MC means casinos on "US" land, not casinos on reservations. All the rules are different on reservations. That's why they did an exemption for the "other casinos" in Detroit. There was fear that people would go to the reservation casinos to gamble then because our laws don't apply there.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I think MC means casinos on "US" land, not casinos on reservations. All the rules are different on reservations. That's why they did an exemption for the "other casinos" in Detroit. There was fear that people would go to the reservation casinos to gamble then because our laws don't apply there.

I took it to mean "I we had them in NC".

Harrahs Cherokee is very decidedly NOT smoke-free. They do have a smoke free room, and it was worth spending $15/ hand Blackjack for that.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I think MC means casinos on "US" land, not casinos on reservations.

This, and I did think of the Harrah's in Cherokee. Yes, it's in NC, but it's not subject to any NC regulation.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I think MC means casinos on "US" land, not casinos on reservations. All the rules are different on reservations. That's why they did an exemption for the "other casinos" in Detroit. There was fear that people would go to the reservation casinos to gamble then because our laws don't apply there.

But Isn't the closet reservation casino in Mt. Pleasant? That's a far haul to make just so you can smoke at your slot machine. People were worried that smokers would just go to the Windsor Casino to gamble.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Michigan's has been in effect for well over a year. The only place it is allowed is in the casinos. This is what the bars and restaurants are upset about. They've lost a lot of business to the casinos.

If the concern is for the workers, then why would casinos be exempt? If we really care about workers, then we wouldn't allow mining or steel mills or a lot of the other extremely dangerous jobs out there. It is all about who is in the back pockets of the politicians. Shoot, I worked as a counter girl at the dry cleaner and the chemicals I was exposed to were downright scary.

I think the market should dictate things like this. Yes, there is a market for smoke free restaurants and bars. There is also a market for those that allow smoking. Smokers can choose to work in the places that allow smoking. Given that 22% of the population smokes, it would follow that 20% of the bars and restaurants could allow smoking.

Dee this thread is making me laugh because some people obviously have no clue what this group is trying to do.

They want bar owners to have a CHOICE to go smoke free or not. They want their customers to have a CHOICE if they want to go to a smoking or smoke free bar. There are a few bars in the area where it would be stupid for them to allow smoking because they have gotten busier. Then there are the hole in the wall bars that have lost business (even closed) because the majority of their clientele are smokers.

The bar that I go to lost a TON of business after the ban. Once they decided to protest the ban, the bar is once again busy.

And if we're going to talk about safety for employees, let's ban alcohol! How many times have I seen little waitresses get knocked around trying to break up a bar fight between drunken idiots? Or how about strippers? I mean, they put themselves in danger because guys are groping them and they could be molested while giving a lap dance.

There's danger in every job. I work at a company that does job recruiting (which has become huge in our area). How easily could an employee go ape shit when they've been laid off, fired, or an assignment finished?

Rick- you can't smoke in Windsor Casino either. And let's talk about the ventilation system at the casinos. I'm a smoker and have trouble breathing in there. I stink like an ash tray, WORSE than the smoking bars, when I leave.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Rick- you can't smoke in Windsor Casino either. And let's talk about the ventilation system at the casinos. I'm a smoker and have trouble breathing in there. I stink like an ash tray, WORSE than the smoking bars, when I leave.

That must be some sort of secret thing to make you gamble more, because the brand spankin' new casino here in Pittsburgh is the same way. And I go to the smokiest, hole-in-the-walliest, dive bars in town.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Dee this thread is making me laugh because some people obviously have no clue what this group is trying to do.

No, we actually get that.

They want bar owners to have a CHOICE to go smoke free or not. They want their customers to have a CHOICE if they want to go to a smoking or smoke free bar.

Yeah we get that too. But see technically bar owners have always had a "CHOICE" to do that and for the most part, haven't. Instead bars and restaurants had magical non-smoking sections where a high back on a booth somehow kept the smoke from wafting over it.

There are a few bars in the area where it would be stupid for them to allow smoking because they have gotten busier. Then there are the hole in the wall bars that have lost business (even closed) because the majority of their clientele are smokers.

And that's a result of any sort of legislation change. But is it actually the case that the bars closed due to smokers or due to the economy. People threatened doom and destruction in Illinois as well and while I know some bars shut down, many more have done well and new ones have opened. The hole in the walls still exist too, and they literally put a picnic table outside for the smokers.

The bar that I go to lost a TON of business after the ban. Once they decided to protest the ban, the bar is once again busy.

That's a shame. Their patrons won't ever get used to the change and won't come back after they're force to comply with the law.

And if we're going to talk about safety for employees, let's ban alcohol!

98% of the time, alcohol will not cause problems for an employee. There is no second hand vapors that will give her liver disease during the average course of her job.

How many times have I seen little waitresses get knocked around trying to break up a bar fight between drunken idiots?

That's assault and the police should have been called, there's already a law that protects against that.

Or how about strippers? I mean, they put themselves in danger because guys are groping them and they could be molested while giving a lap dance.

What. If they're molested during a lapdance that's illegal and again, there is a law that protects against that. This argument doesn't make sense.

There's danger in every job. I work at a company that does job recruiting (which has become huge in our area). How easily could an employee go ape shit when they've been laid off, fired, or an assignment finished?

There are laws and protections against that. But simply working there isn't giving you cancer.

Rick- you can't smoke in Windsor Casino either. And let's talk about the ventilation system at the casinos. I'm a smoker and have trouble breathing in there. I stink like an ash tray, WORSE than the smoking bars, when I leave.

Which is why Illinois didn't exempt casinos. There's no way to separate non-smoking from smoking because even special ventilation systems to crap. Private clubs, fraternal organizations, and home based businesses are all included. Because there's no effective way to prevent that. Hotels and nursing homes are about the only workplace that get to have "smoking rooms" and tobacco shops are exempt. That's it.


So in short: we do understand, we just disagree with you.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I'm a smoker....

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Dee this thread is making me laugh because some people obviously have no clue what this group is trying to do.

Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't understand.

And if we're going to talk about safety for employees, let's ban alcohol! How many times have I seen little waitresses get knocked around trying to break up a bar fight between drunken idiots? Or how about strippers? I mean, they put themselves in danger because guys are groping them and they could be molested while giving a lap dance.

Again, apples and oranges. There is a difference between working in an environment where accidents (or stupid things) could happen and working in an environment where it is impossible to breathe uncontaminated air.

As for bars closing because people would rather go where they can smoke, how does that work if there aren't any bars where you can smoke, so there's nowhere else to go?

Again, while there was certainly some complaining, I don't remember a deluge of bar-closings when the ban went into effect here.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

So in short: we do understand, we just disagree with you.

Yep.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That must be some sort of secret thing to make you gamble more, because the brand spankin' new casino here in Pittsburgh is the same way. And I go to the smokiest, hole-in-the-walliest, dive bars in town.

I went to the Four Winds Casino in New Buffalo, Michigan, and I don't feel any smokier when I leave. Maybe they just have better ventilation? Their non-smoking area is teeny tiny, though, and all the good machines are in the smoking section. Live-in (non-smoker) has never complained, but maybe he's just used to it?

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The hole in the walls still exist too, and they literally put a picnic table outside for the smokers.

I can't lie, I love those picnic tables and decent smoking areas (with an ashtray) outside of bars here. I don't mind not being able to smoke in bars at all, even in the winter, even in negative 47 degrees (it's not likely I'd be at a bar in that weather anyway). I don't smoke in my house, either.