Smoking In-House

[33girl]

If it's between the house being smelly and losing a charter or harassment from the cops because people are outside...I'll take a smelly house. I know all the Rob Reiners out there are saying "just quit" but that's really not the issue. This is something that involves guests as well as fraternity members.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If it's between the house being smelly and losing a charter or harassment from the cops because people are outside...I'll take a smelly house. I know all the Rob Reiners out there are saying "just quit" but that's really not the issue. This is something that involves guests as well as fraternity members.

I don't believe that they're going to lose their charter for smoking outside. Nor do I suspect that if we're really talking 5 people outside smoking at a time that the cops are really getting called. Plenty of people have mentioned alternatives. And for non-smokers, the smelly house isn't generally worth it.

Their house smells (per the OP) and people are choosing not to come to the house/not join the fraternity because of it. They smoke outside the rest of the year. It's time to suck it up and go out in the cold.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I don't believe that they're going to lose their charter for smoking outside. Nor do I suspect that if we're really talking 5 people outside smoking at a time that the cops are really getting called.

Sorry you don't believe that things like that actually happen. THEY DO.

[dnall]

All these tangent issues aside...

It's a very legitimate issue that they can't have a congregation of people outside during a party. It attracts attention. An open door lets out noise. Constant in/out traffic indicates an uncontrolled entrance, which (in my state) means law enforcement can come in without probable cause.

Having parties shut down for noise &/or people getting providing/MIP tickets is worse than dealing with a smell issue. That said, the smell issue has become a problem too, so they have to deal with it now.

I don't know the facility we're talking about here, so it's hard to find the easy solution that probably exists.

I would not be looking at filtered ventilation systems. They are expensive and require too much maintenance.

I'd try to figure something else out that eliminates the other issues with people smoking outside. For instance, is there something like a back porch I could tarp off & put a portable heater in during events (a lot of bars/restaurants do this with their patio areas when temps dip and they want to keep use of the space). If that's workable, I'd consider walling it in later on. If not, I could inexpensively add a covered area like that without a lot of hassle.

That may not be the best solution for this specific property, but I think it's headed in the right direction. We're doing something we don't like because of XYZ. So, we just need to mitigate XYZ so those factors become the lesser of the two evils. Banning or not banning smoking doesn't seem to solve the problem.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If you're a non-smoker, there probably is nothing that can be done that you won't smell the smoke throughout the house. Especially since it's in the basement and probably seeps up through the whole house that probably has air ducts going throughout. I don't know if smokers don't notice, but non-smokers do. Having to smoke outside the house or apartment or building is a pretty common occurrence and I suspect this house is more unusual than not and the smokers (as well as the "I only smoke when I drink"-ers will have to suck it up and go outside in the cold to smoke eventually.

Or you know, not smoke, but that's another issue.

Agree with all of this, though for the record some smokers do notice. I do. Stale smoke is way worse than just smelling a cigarette, and it's impossible to get rid of totally. I do not often smoke in my car and roll the windows down totally when I do and it still reeks...and will forever. I imagine a closed off basement full of smokers would be totally rancid. I don't have a single friend that allows cigarette smoking in house and neither do the fraternities here.

I've gotten into this debate before with other smokers, but I've been smoking for about 3 years now...and going 4 or so hours without one is just not that big of a deal. When I visit my parents I do not smoke at all...which sometimes means a week. No big. I've been told for some people it's torture. Fine. I believe it is for some people, but I'm willing to bet there are just as many smokers like myself out there...as well as the smoke-when-drink crowd that aren't actually addicted at all. Go outside. If traffic in and out is that big of a deal, they can smoke before arriving and light up as soon as they leave. I'm betting the smell of stale cigarette smoke over the years would end up causing way more problems than smokers outside.

Originally Posted by dnall

All these tangent issues aside...

It's a very legitimate issue that they can't have a congregation of people outside during a party. It attracts attention. An open door lets out noise. Constant in/out traffic indicates an uncontrolled entrance, which (in my state) means law enforcement can come in without probable cause.

Having parties shut down for noise &/or people getting providing/MIP tickets is worse than dealing with a smell issue. That said, the smell issue has become a problem too, so they have to deal with it now.

I don't know the facility we're talking about here, so it's hard to find the easy solution that probably exists.

I would not be looking at filtered ventilation systems. They are expensive and require too much maintenance.

I'd try to figure something else out that eliminates the other issues with people smoking outside. For instance, is there something like a back porch I could tarp off & put a portable heater in during events (a lot of bars/restaurants do this with their patio areas when temps dip and they want to keep use of the space). If that's workable, I'd consider walling it in later on. If not, I could inexpensively add a covered area like that without a lot of hassle.

That may not be the best solution for this specific property, but I think it's headed in the right direction. We're doing something we don't like because of XYZ. So, we just need to mitigate XYZ so those factors become the lesser of the two evils. Banning or not banning smoking doesn't seem to solve the problem.

The smell issue will only get worse, and no amount of Stanley Steamer visits will completely remove it.

But your suggestions are good. I know the porch is one area a fraternity house here uses for smokers, and it's tarped off during especially cold party nights.

Another solution is to post a brother at the door where the smokers go out. Allow three to five out at a time. If the party is so big that this isn't practical, tell people they can't smoke. I doubt you're going to have many smokers so vehement about their rights that they leave. They should be used to it...you can't smoke in just about any restaurant, commercial building, or home now anyway.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

They should be used to it...you can't smoke in just about any restaurant, commercial building, or home now anyway.

There is no law about smoking in "homes" - if people who smoke choose to make themselves unwelcome in their own houses and exile themselves outside to smoke, that's their stupid business.

The tarp/space heater is an awesome idea and one many restaurants around here are using. It's no coincidence that many of the most vehement anti-smokers (I mean like famous people) are from warmer states where going outside is not anything of an issue.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Sorry you don't believe that things like that actually happen. THEY DO.

That's nice, but that's not what the OP said was an issue. All these other issues were brought up as hypothetical by posters in this thread. So they're irrelevent here since the issue here is the smokers who don't want to go out in the cold.

And why the hell would a charter get pulled for smoking outside? That's beyond the idiot neighbors calling the cops for no reason, issue. If someone was going to pull the charter for that they'd have pulled it anyway for any excuse.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There is no law about smoking in "homes" - if people who smoke choose to make themselves unwelcome in their own houses and exile themselves outside to smoke, that's their stupid business.

The tarp/space heater is an awesome idea and one many restaurants around here are using. It's no coincidence that many of the most vehement anti-smokers (I mean like famous people) are from warmer states where going outside is not anything of an issue.

If homes includes apartments though, many apartments/townhomes/etc are smoke free. Most places that college students CAN live are smoke free.

And I suspect that the fact that the "famous people" don't smoke and thus don't go outside has more of an effect than their location. Never mind that more "famous people" live in places like California in the first place. Second hand smoke sucks, and smelling smoke in your home when you're not a smoker sucks too.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There is no law about smoking in "homes" - if people who smoke choose to make themselves unwelcome in their own houses and exile themselves outside to smoke, that's their stupid business.

The tarp/space heater is an awesome idea and one many restaurants around here are using. It's no coincidence that many of the most vehement anti-smokers (I mean like famous people) are from warmer states where going outside is not anything of an issue.

No one said anything about laws. The fact is, however, most rental properties are smoke free and most people I know that don't rent still smoke outside. You can end up spending a fortune trying to get the smell out when you go to sell it, and you probably won't be successful in getting rid of it entirely. Were my car worth anything I would never have smoked in it in the first place. Even some smokers might think it stinks too bad.

Like I said, I'm a smoker, and I don't understand what the big deal is. It's not worth ruining a dwelling and making anyone who doesn't smoke (which is the majority) uncomfortable when the solution is to just smoke outside. I just don't get it. And since there are ways to handle the crowd outside, it seems to be the solution.

[dnall]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

...your suggestions are good. I know the porch is one area a fraternity house here uses for smokers, and it's tarped off during especially cold party nights.

Another solution is to post a brother at the door where the smokers go out. Allow three to five out at a time. If the party is so big that this isn't practical, tell people they can't smoke. I doubt you're going to have many smokers so vehement about their rights that they leave. They should be used to it...you can't smoke in just about any restaurant, commercial building, or home now anyway.

Personally, I'd transfer to a school where it never gets that cold, but to each their own.

I can't speak for the given campus, I don't even know what school we're talking about, not that it matters. However, where I'm from avg parties are 3-500, small is 100 & big is 1000-1500. You can tell people not to smoke, but they'll just go to someone else's party instead.

You really have to balance and mitigate to appeal to your guests, or they won't show up. At that point, it doesn't matter what the house smells like cause you're not going to survive anyway.

[33girl]

I just tried to imagine the perfume mashup of 1000-1500 people, guys and girls, not all of whom have a good grasp on the concept of "too much." I think I'll take smoke any time...

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I just tried to imagine the perfume mashup of 1000-1500 people, guys and girls, not all of whom have a good grasp on the concept of "too much." I think I'll take smoke any time...

Plus the spilled beer and the sweat and it goes down hill fast.

[ZetaGirl22]

I am a smoker, although wish I NEVER picked up that first cigarette, but that's beside the point. I was also a smoker when a collegian and there was no smoking in our house period. (Pretty obvious, since it was a sorority house) There was also no smoking on the front porch. We were all relegated to the side porch rain, shine, sleet, snow, cold, whatever. I didn't have a problem with it. DH's house was a different story (although I am positive there is probably no smoking in his house anymore-this was 10 years ago). You could smoke in the bedrooms if both roommates were ok with it and in the basement, so the basement always smelled like stale beer and cigarettes. YUM! Because I never smoked in the house in college, I transferred that over to when I got my own place. We have never smoked indoors at anyplace I have ever lived since college. I actually prefer it. I have been over to smoker's houses who smoke indoors and it literally reeks. If you smoke inside, it stinks up all your stuff..........its terrible! At least my clothes don't reek. I should probably just quit. I hate both the taste AND smell of cigarettes yet I continue to smoke. That's how crazy nicotine is LOL!

[dnall]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Plus the spilled beer and the sweat and it goes down hill fast.

It's a fraternity function. It's going to be messy. it helps to have adequate space.

"Enough" though really varies by campus. Whatever the standard is in your location, if you aren't competitive then people will find their entertainment elsewhere. If your social sucks then your reputation and recruitment will suffer too. It doesn't take many years of that before you die off.

You just have to do things smart. That's always a complex balancing act, mitigating all the problems you can, and at least understanding the risks you're choosing to accept.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by dnall

It's a fraternity function. It's going to be messy. it helps to have adequate space.

Have to say I'm in favor of outsourcing the location, and cleanup. It worked well for us, but then we didn't have houses. (Except one fraternity, and it was NOT a selling point for anyone but them.)