Funding cuts leave many without home heating assistance in Macon

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm horribly bothered by people who think that poor people should never have nice things, should cook all their food from scratch, and should basically be 'better' people than the person spouting such beliefs.


"

And I am tired of people expecting things for free and when they don't get what they want acting like asshats (was that the word used earlier?).

[AGDee]

If it was his money and his beer, as I pointed out.

The real point is, it is easy to judge but you don't really know the full circumstances. As usual, I'm going to pull from my own experiences since my ex-husband has been unemployed (since Sept. 29, 2009 now). He held off as long as he could before selling his beloved red convertible mustang that he only drives 3 months a year because he really thought things would get better and he considered that car an investment. He had savings, lots of it, but after 14-15 months of being unemployed, it's gone. He's dipping into his retirement now. When he called me to tell me that he was going to have to cancel his cable/internet and that meant I would probably need to take the kids full time because they wouldn't want to live with him part time without cable/internet, I took over paying his cable/internet bill. He'd been paying taxes for 30 years before he hit this hard time. There are probably people out there who are saying "Why does he still have cable/internet if he's so broke?"

You just don't know.

[AGDee]

I have to admit, I didn't read the article until a minute ago. The article basically says that assistance is received on a first come, first served basis. The first 219 people in line got assistance. It seems to me that it would make more sense to get applications from everybody requesting assistance and determining highest need from there. To just give it to the first (insert number) people in line seems totally crazy.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

^^ No one is talking like that Drolefille, but if that's what you are getting out of my posts...well, than my message is coming out wrong.

There's nothing wrong with cooking your food from scratch, I prepare 90% of my meals from scratch and I wouldn't have it any other way. There is a difference between nice things and excess, if you make $20,000 a year your ass shouldn't be sporting a $500+ purse and $300 sunglasses. You can get a nice purse and sunglasses at Target for about $50. It sounds to me like you want people who live in poverty to live like people who are middle to upper middle class. Very noble of you but unrealistic.

Hyperbole for the sake of the point.

No shit there isn't anything wrong with cooking meals from scratch, I said "all" for a reason. And people who have always had homes with stoves and kitchens with space to store food in a bug-free environment seem to think that everyone has access to those same facilities. Not to mention the knowledge that does not always exist because it wasn't passed down.

If you think I want people buying $500 purses, then you're not listening. The point is you don't know what the fuck is going on in that woman's life, but you have decided you know better than her what is good for her and how exactly she's fucked up based on a photograph.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

...but you have decided you know better than her what is good for her and how exactly she's fucked up based on a photograph.

As long as you know that not everyone has interpreted the discussion in this thread the same way that you and perhaps AOIIAngel have.

Moreover, you seemed defensive and that you had your mind made up about this subject to the point where it did not matter what PiKA said in his very first post. You were quick to assume that he (and anyone else who shared a sentiment about that photo) had his head up his ass and was being judgmental. That's presumptuous and judgmental on your part because you do not know PiKA and what he may have had to deal with all of his life (beyond what he has shared) that provides the context for his posts.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

As long as you know that not everyone has interpreted the discussion in this thread the same way that you and perhaps AOIIAngel have.

Moreover, you seemed defensive and that you had your mind made up about this subject to the point where it did not matter what PiKA said in his very first post. You were quick to assume that he (and anyone else who shared a sentiment about that photo) had his head up his ass and was being judgmental. That's presumptuous and judgmental on your part because you do not know PiKA and what he may have had to deal with all of his life (beyond what he has shared) that provides the context for his posts.

I'm judgmental based on what people say, absolutely. And I work very hard not to make assumptions about them in the process, I operate based on the words that people write, the things they take responsibility for. If he included himself in the group of people with heads up anuses then that is his prerogative. And I would still extend that sentiment to anyone who made judgments and assumptions about the subject of the picture who doesn't actually know her full situation. There is a distinction between pointing out irony and judging as well. Had PIKA's posts not trailed down into making those assumptions about the subject, I wouldn't personally have categorized him in the judgmental asshat category, but they did, so I did.

And yeah, I'm defensive. I've worked with a range of people in poverty from those with mental illness who make bad choices and can't help it, to those who stubbornly make bad choices over and over again with full foreknowledge to those who are absolutely trying the best they can. Knowing that has only highlighted exactly how big of an asshole people can be to people in poverty purely because they're poor. I've also BEEN poor, although relatively privileged in it and am still working on not being poor any more. I didn't access foodstamps because I was too ashamed to, despite the fact I've paid taxes, I qualified, I met the need. Instead I borrowed more from Student Loans.

The idea that people who receive state assistance should bow to the whims of the taxpayers - and the people who think this usually want them to bow to THEIR whims and live to THEIR standards, not the standards of anyone who disagrees - is offensive.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm judgmental based on what people say, absolutely. And I work very hard not to make assumptions about them in the process, I operate based on the words that people write, the things they take responsibility for. If he included himself in the group of people with heads up anuses then that is his prerogative. And I would still extend that sentiment to anyone who made judgments and assumptions about the subject of the picture who doesn't actually know her full situation. There is a distinction between pointing out irony and judging as well. Had PIKA's posts not trailed down into making those assumptions about the subject, I wouldn't personally have categorized him in the judgmental asshat category, but they did, so I did.

I don't see a substantive distinction between pointing out irony and making, what you perceive to be, a judgment. It's really the same thing. Then again, I try to avoid getting lost in people's tone, and whether they come across as an asshat, and focus on what's embedded in what people say.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And yeah, I'm defensive. I've worked with a range of people in poverty from those with mental illness who make bad choices and can't help it, to those who stubbornly make bad choices over and over again with full foreknowledge to those who are absolutely trying the best they can. Knowing that has only highlighted exactly how big of an asshole people can be to people in poverty purely because they're poor. I've also BEEN poor, although relatively privileged in it and am still working on not being poor any more. I didn't access foodstamps because I was too ashamed to, despite the fact I've paid taxes, I qualified, I met the need. Instead I borrowed more from Student Loans.

You are not the only person in this thread who has professional and/or personal experience with poverty. That does not mean that everyone with professional and personal experience with poverty will interpret and respond to this topic in the same manner.

[Low C Sharp]

I criticize middle-class white people who live beyond their means, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/ma...pagewanted=all

^^These people were rightly raked across the coals for their lack of planning and irresponsibility and their sense of entitlement.

I'm an ant putting food away for the winter, and I get grouchy about ALL the grasshoppers, rich and poor. My TV is 20 years old. I got it 8 years ago when my parents discarded it. I've put away more than enough money for a huge and fancy new TV every month for the last 8 years. But you know, the old TV works just fine, and I'll keep it until it dies. I know my attitude makes me a weirdo in this country, but the fact is, better decision-making would keep many people away from the brink.

I'm a huge liberal who thinks we should increase home heating assistance (not to mention unemployment benefits, health insurance subsidies, Section 8, etc.). However, I reserve the right to make grouchy comments about careless spending at the same time.
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[Low C Sharp]

The idea that people who receive state assistance should bow to the whims of the taxpayers

Means-testing is a very old idea when it comes to public benefits. Asking people to demonstrate their need for services is a hardly a whim. I suppose you could reject means-testing altogether and give heating assistance to anyone who requests it, no questions asked. But if means-testing is appropriate, then it has to be OK to debate where the line should be drawn. The size of one's TV is crude means test, to be sure, but there's a legitimate principle at work here.
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WEB SHOWS

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Means-testing is a very old idea when it comes to public benefits. Asking people to demonstrate their need for services is a hardly a whim. I suppose you could reject means-testing altogether and give heating assistance to anyone who requests it, no questions asked. But if means-testing is appropriate, then it has to be OK to debate where the line should be drawn. The size of one's TV is crude means test, to be sure, but there's a legitimate principle at work here.

No, looking at the size of one's TV is a pretty absurd way to judge whether someone needs assistance or not. Someone can have a very nice car, and received it as a gift or be borrowing it from family, or still have it from a time when times were better. They might have people willing to help them pay for the car, but who can't help with anything more. The car itself doesn't mean anything about one's ability to manage rent, utilities, etc. but some people make those assumptions. The standards in place look at income, assets and expenditures - rent, bills, etc. I've been pretty firmly supporting the standards in place, and not the "You're using my tax money so act the way I like with it" people.

So no, it's neither legitimate nor actually means testing.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Someone can have a very nice car, and received it as a gift or be borrowing it from family, or still have it from a time when times were better.

This is exactly what was said after the observations (read: not judgments) were made. It escalated because you took it there.

[als463]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

This is exactly what was said after the observations (read: not judements) were made. It escalated because you took it there.

I'm going to say that both Drolefile and PIKA have a good point. I see both sides of what they are saying. I will say, "Hey, since when has it been seen as an insult to consider someone a Republican?"

I'm a Republican. I won't tell you what side of the fence I stand on this issue, though. You decide.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

This is exactly what was said after the observations (read: not judgments) were made. It escalated because you took it there.

Yes, it's all my fault for provoking other people into comparing this situation with welfare fraud and bitching about a guy using food stamps and buying beer with cash in the same transaction. I'm so terribly sorry that I made them do that.

[knight_shadow]

I'm not going back to read all the posts in this thread, but who brought up party affiliation?

[als463]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I'm not going back to read all the posts in this thread, but who brought up party affiliation?

I'm with you-I'm too lazy to go back and check. I just saw that he was saying something about not being a Republican but, instead being an Independent.