Funding cuts leave many without home heating assistance in Macon

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No, the OP mentioned being judgmental, PIKA decided she was living beyond her means and compared the situation to fraud.

It's not even the same thing as pointing out irony as mentioned by DrPhil.

PiKA's first post:

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Yes, she probably did buy the TV during "better days" but she shouldn't have taken that picture. It just looks....bad.

Nothing about that screams fraud.

We all don't work in your field, so we may not know all the inner workings of these types of programs, but you have to admit that hearing someone with a large flat-panel TV, a gaming system, and a cable box talk about energy assistance can lead to a few questions.

If I am standing next to my Hummer and complaining that I can't afford gas, it wouldn't be THAT big of a stretch for people to ask questions.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

The economy may want you to spend but it doesn't force you to spend. That's your choice. There are households with an income of $30,000 that are financially better off debt to income than households with an income of $80,000. Why is that? < hypothetical question.

Yes the TV looks bad IMHO, because there are households that are self-supporting and responsible enough to pay their own bills and because of that have never been able to afford such flashy luxuries. I'm sure they find it disheartening to find out people in the same income bracket as them get all this "help" while they live modestly.

I make a decent living (for myself), put in a good amount to my 401k and savings, donated $3,000 this year to AIDS Research Alliance and the West Texas Food Bank but guess what????? I still canceled my cable this year prepared ALL of my lunches at home and I've never been able to afford* a TV like the one in the picture. Not everyone spends as stupidly as you insinuate.

-If you expect tax payers to foot your food bill because you'd rather spend your money on alcohol, tobacco or drugs, IMHO that IS unethical.


*Just cuz you can pay for something doesn't mean you can afford it.

N of 1 is not good enough to wipe away the evidence of gross American excess. Yes, you are a good person and save your money like a good boy. Excellent! The vast majority of Americans don't and haven't. Most Americans who are ready to retire have little money with which to retire. Most Americans carry more debt on their credit cards than they will ever be able to pay off, especially as they only pay the minimum off each month. You take the average American and put them in the unemployment line for a few months, and I'd like to see how great they look. Are they irresponsible? Duh. Is it wide spread? Absolutely. So, they're tax money is paying for the idiotic decisions they are making that have already caught up with people less fortunate than them. Don't forget that the ones collecting benefits were probably paying taxes before they fell on hard times, too.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

N of 1 is not good enough to wipe away the evidence of gross American excess. Yes, you are a good person and save your money like a good boy. Excellent! The vast majority of Americans don't and haven't. Most Americans who are ready to retire have little money with which to retire. Most Americans carry more debt on their credit cards than they will ever be able to pay off, especially as they only pay the minimum off each month. You take the average American and put them in the unemployment line for a few months, and I'd like to see how great they look. Are they irresponsible? Duh. Is it wide spread? Absolutely. So, they're tax money is paying for the idiotic decisions they are making that have already caught up with people less fortunate than them. Don't forget that the ones collecting benefits were probably paying taxes before they fell on hard times, too.

Ummm.....Then it's ok than to spend every last penny you have? You say that these people are irresponsible and admit they put themselves in this situation yet you clear them of any responsibility and talk as if it's "not their fault".

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Ummm.....Then it's ok than to spend every last penny you have? You say that these people are irresponsible and admit they put themselves in this situation yet you clear them of any responsibility and talk as if it's "not their fault".

I never said it's not their fault. I said that it's hard to judge people when the standard is their same behavior. I also think that you don't know a persons situation, so don't assume you do. With 9% unemployment, there are many hardworking people who have depleted any savings they may have had. Are we to sit back and let them sell everything they have to live on the streets and freeze to death? Charity extends beyond giving to AIDS related organizations.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

PiKA's first post:
Nothing about that screams fraud.

Read his next post. I don't really know what your point is here either. I don't believe people should be judgey asshats because they think they know better than the poor people, because duh they're poor. That's not the same as talking about the system the way AOIIA and DP are.

We all don't work in your field, so we may not know all the inner workings of these types of programs, but you have to admit that hearing someone with a large flat-panel TV, a gaming system, and a cable box talk about energy assistance can lead to a few questions.

I don't work for public aid anymore, but if anything it should drive home exactly how many people are hurting. If my dad lost his job for that long, we probably wouldn't have sold the TV or cable box, or my brother's Xbox but we wouldn't necessarily have cable or Xbox Live either. Selling them wouldn't make us enough money to heat our house either. If someone said "hey, isn't that weird, does she really qualify?" then that's someone trying to correct their ignorance, but when someone says "she shouldn't do X, she should do Y, I know better than her and she's probably a terrible person who's mismanaged her whole life" they're being assholes.

This woman could have saved every spare dime and received every fancy thing in her home as charity or gifts, and after being out of work for a year be down to the last straw. Or she could have been living paycheck to paycheck and is now just barely managing on public assistance/unemployment/with help from others.

I'm horribly bothered by people who think that poor people should never have nice things, should cook all their food from scratch, and should basically be 'better' people than the person spouting such beliefs.

If I am standing next to my Hummer and complaining that I can't afford gas, it wouldn't be THAT big of a stretch for people to ask questions.

"Hey, k_s, why'd you buy a hummer if you were struggling with money?" vs "You irresponsible bastard, I hope my tax money never goes to help you out. You probably bought that car with my money in the first place so now I, personally, get to dictate how you should act. If you don't sell your car and ride a bicycle to go look for a job then you're not really hurting."

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I never said it's not their fault. I said that it's hard to judge people when the standard is their same behavior. I also think that you don't know a persons situation, so don't assume you do. With 9% unemployment, there are many hardworking people who have depleted any savings they may have had. Are we to sit back and let them sell everything they have to live on the streets and freeze to death? Charity extends beyond giving to AIDS related organizations.

Sigh..... Freeze to death?...... but maybe we should allow them to sell everything they don't need to "reset' their priorities and spending habits.

I also never said we should end charity or welfare, all I'm saying is

IF YOU HAVE $20 TO SPEND ON BEER THAN YOU CAN DROP $2 ON A BOTTLE OF KETCHUP.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Sigh..... Freeze to death?...... but maybe we should allow them to sell everything they don't need to "reset' their priorities and spending habits.

I also never said we should end charity or welfare, all I'm saying is

IF YOU HAVE $20 TO SPEND ON BEER THAN YOU CAN DROP $2 ON A BOTTLE OF KETCHUP.

So how do you propose we regulate that? Have auditors go to their houses and gather up their belongings for auction? I thought you Republicans were all for less government intrusion in people's personal lives. I guess that's only your own personal lives. You don't get to reset anyone's priorities. The point of welfare is to help them out until they get on their feet, not teach them a lesson like you know better. As has been said before, people who qualify for food stamps don't have to be destitute. They have jobs and can afford to pay for some things. They don't have to sign a pledge promising to never buy beer again. It's not your business. How bout in the future, when you see someone buying a six pack with their own money and $2 worth of ketchup with food stamps, assume that that money came out of my taxes instead of yours. I pay more than you do anyway. That $2 bottle of ketchup isn't running up our national deficit, but that huge tax break I just got along with all my top 2% friends sure did!

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

This woman could have saved every spare dime and received every fancy thing in her home as charity or gifts, and after being out of work for a year be down to the last straw. Or she could have been living paycheck to paycheck and is now just barely managing on public assistance/unemployment/with help from others.

I'm horribly bothered by people who think that poor people should never have nice things, should cook all their food from scratch, and should basically be 'better' people than the person spouting such beliefs.


"Hey, k_s, why'd you buy a hummer if you were struggling with money?" vs "You irresponsible bastard, I hope my tax money never goes to help you out. You probably bought that car with my money in the first place so now I, personally, get to dictate how you should act. If you don't sell your car and ride a bicycle to go look for a job then you're not really hurting."

^^ No one is talking like that Drolefille, but if that's what you are getting out of my posts...well, than my message is coming out wrong.

There's nothing wrong with cooking your food from scratch, I prepare 90% of my meals from scratch and I wouldn't have it any other way. There is a difference between nice things and excess, if you make $20,000 a year your ass shouldn't be sporting a $500+ purse and $300 sunglasses. You can get a nice purse and sunglasses at Target for about $50. It sounds to me like you want people who live in poverty to live like people who are middle to upper middle class. Very noble of you but unrealistic.

[AGDee]

If it was his money and his beer, as I pointed out.

The real point is, it is easy to judge but you don't really know the full circumstances. As usual, I'm going to pull from my own experiences since my ex-husband has been unemployed (since Sept. 29, 2009 now). He held off as long as he could before selling his beloved red convertible mustang that he only drives 3 months a year because he really thought things would get better and he considered that car an investment. He had savings, lots of it, but after 14-15 months of being unemployed, it's gone. He's dipping into his retirement now. When he called me to tell me that he was going to have to cancel his cable/internet and that meant I would probably need to take the kids full time because they wouldn't want to live with him part time without cable/internet, I took over paying his cable/internet bill. He'd been paying taxes for 30 years before he hit this hard time. There are probably people out there who are saying "Why does he still have cable/internet if he's so broke?"

You just don't know.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

^^ No one is talking like that Drolefille, but if that's what you are getting out of my posts...well, than my message is coming out wrong.

There's nothing wrong with cooking your food from scratch, I prepare 90% of my meals from scratch and I wouldn't have it any other way. There is a difference between nice things and excess, if you make $20,000 a year your ass shouldn't be sporting a $500+ purse and $300 sunglasses. You can get a nice purse and sunglasses at Target for about $50. It sounds to me like you want people who live in poverty to live like people who are middle to upper middle class. Very noble of you but unrealistic.

Ask anyone...they alllllll think they are middle class.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So how do you propose we regulate that? Have auditors go to their houses and gather up their belongings for auction? I thought you Republicans were all for less government intrusion in people's personal lives. I guess that's only your own personal lives. You don't get to reset anyone's priorities. The point of welfare is to help them out until they get on their feet, not teach them a lesson like you know better. As has been said before, people who qualify for food stamps don't have to be destitute. They have jobs and can afford to pay for some things. They don't have to sign a pledge promising to never buy beer again. It's not your business. How bout in the future, when you see someone buying a six pack with their own money and $2 worth of ketchup with food stamps, assume that that money came out of my taxes instead of yours. I pay more than you do anyway. That $2 bottle of ketchup isn't running up our national deficit, but that huge tax break I just got along with all my top 2% friends sure did!

Funny you call me a Republican even though I'm a registered Independent and have NEVER voted for a Republican candidate before but that's neither here nor there. Also, why don't you and your friends donate that tax windfall to charity, Hell maybe you should contact that paper in Macon and offer to pay that woman's heating bill this winter. Not holding my breath on that one...

[AGDee]

I have to admit, I didn't read the article until a minute ago. The article basically says that assistance is received on a first come, first served basis. The first 219 people in line got assistance. It seems to me that it would make more sense to get applications from everybody requesting assistance and determining highest need from there. To just give it to the first (insert number) people in line seems totally crazy.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

^^ No one is talking like that Drolefille, but if that's what you are getting out of my posts...well, than my message is coming out wrong.

There's nothing wrong with cooking your food from scratch, I prepare 90% of my meals from scratch and I wouldn't have it any other way. There is a difference between nice things and excess, if you make $20,000 a year your ass shouldn't be sporting a $500+ purse and $300 sunglasses. You can get a nice purse and sunglasses at Target for about $50. It sounds to me like you want people who live in poverty to live like people who are middle to upper middle class. Very noble of you but unrealistic.

Hyperbole for the sake of the point.

No shit there isn't anything wrong with cooking meals from scratch, I said "all" for a reason. And people who have always had homes with stoves and kitchens with space to store food in a bug-free environment seem to think that everyone has access to those same facilities. Not to mention the knowledge that does not always exist because it wasn't passed down.

If you think I want people buying $500 purses, then you're not listening. The point is you don't know what the fuck is going on in that woman's life, but you have decided you know better than her what is good for her and how exactly she's fucked up based on a photograph.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

...but you have decided you know better than her what is good for her and how exactly she's fucked up based on a photograph.

As long as you know that not everyone has interpreted the discussion in this thread the same way that you and perhaps AOIIAngel have.

Moreover, you seemed defensive and that you had your mind made up about this subject to the point where it did not matter what PiKA said in his very first post. You were quick to assume that he (and anyone else who shared a sentiment about that photo) had his head up his ass and was being judgmental. That's presumptuous and judgmental on your part because you do not know PiKA and what he may have had to deal with all of his life (beyond what he has shared) that provides the context for his posts.

[Low C Sharp]

I criticize middle-class white people who live beyond their means, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/ma...pagewanted=all

^^These people were rightly raked across the coals for their lack of planning and irresponsibility and their sense of entitlement.

I'm an ant putting food away for the winter, and I get grouchy about ALL the grasshoppers, rich and poor. My TV is 20 years old. I got it 8 years ago when my parents discarded it. I've put away more than enough money for a huge and fancy new TV every month for the last 8 years. But you know, the old TV works just fine, and I'll keep it until it dies. I know my attitude makes me a weirdo in this country, but the fact is, better decision-making would keep many people away from the brink.

I'm a huge liberal who thinks we should increase home heating assistance (not to mention unemployment benefits, health insurance subsidies, Section 8, etc.). However, I reserve the right to make grouchy comments about careless spending at the same time.
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