University of Alabama Breaks Color Barrier... - Page 3

carnation · #31 11-14-2001, 02:12 PM

Agree 100% with dzrose93, Wine and Blue, and Angels & Arrows!

G8Ralphaxi · #32 11-14-2001, 02:23 PM

Way to go dzrose! I agree 100%.

The Greek system at UF has actually tried to increase minority involvement but it's really hard. There are well-established, successful NPHC organizations and several Latin fraternities/sororities (sorry I don't remember the name of their council). They are very active on campus and tend to attract a large % of the minorities who would go Greek.

I mean, maybe I'm simplifying things, but it seems to me that the type of person who wants to go Greek, no matter what type of organization they pursue, is motivated by similar things. There are definitely different strengths of each type of system, but in general, everyone is looking for the friendship, the leadership, the activities, and the service to the community that Greeks provide. Greek life isn't appealing to everyone (even though it should be - people just don't know what they're missing!

) so when out of all the minorities who are interested in Greek life, the vast majority don't go through our Rush, guess what folks, the houses will remain majority white.

The other problem we encountered is that when minorities do go through our system, there is a LOT of pressure from their families, friends, etc. NOT to join. They are told that they are "selling out" by joining a "white girl sorority" instead of an NPHC sorority.

Some houses at UF the girls literally are all about the same size and have the same haircut/color. Attack of the Clones! My sorority never looked like "cookie-cutter" sisters. We had a great mix of tall and short, christian and jewish (and a buddhist), every hair color, etc. We had a number of hispanic and asian sisters. It never was a big deal to us. Our whole approach to Rush was looking for girls that we wanted to have as friends. I still remember what our Rush chair told us my sophomore year: "You want the girl who you can picture yourself watching silly TV shows with."

The 4 years that I was an active sister, we had only one black member, and she dropped out before initiation. Her mom made her quit because we didn't have any other black girls. Really made a lot of us upset - she was really sweet - i.e. someone you want to watch silly TV shows with! It's very frustrating when someone criticizes you for not having black sisters, when none will join because you have no black sisters! You can't win.

kristiAZD · #33 11-14-2001, 02:24 PM

My post was in response to the quote about not being able to imagine a racially mixed GLO that was not founded on those principles, and they also said that was maybe because they were from the south. I really never thought about things being different until I read that person's reply. This person, going to a school from the south, put this assumption up. Apparently, there are southern people who think that's out of the ordinary. Not all think this way, and I realize that. I also do not condemn that person for thinking that way, that's just the environment they are living in at the moment. They were from a different place than dzrose93, so perhaps that's why there is the differing opinion. Don't forget the previous posts about it being "about time" that an African-American joined a predominately white GLO. Without saying it outright, people are saying basically the same thing I said. I did not mean my post to be interpreted in a way that would say that all southerners are racist or that the North is better than the South. It was just a response to a previous post. I am sorry if it offended anyone.

dzrose93 · #34 11-14-2001, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kristiAZD
My post was in response to the quote about not being able to imagine a racially mixed GLO that was not founded on those principles, and they also said that was maybe because they were from the south. I really never thought about things being different until I read that person's reply. This person, going to a school from the south, put this assumption up. Apparently, there are southern people who think that's out of the ordinary. Not all think this way, and I realize that. I also do not condemn that person for thinking that way, that's just the environment they are living in at the moment. They were from a different place than dzrose93, so perhaps that's why there is the differing opinion. Don't forget the previous posts about it being "about time" that an African-American joined a predominately white GLO. Without saying it outright, people are saying basically the same thing I said. I did not mean my post to be interpreted in a way that would say that all southerners are racist or that the North is better than the South. It was just a response to a previous post. I am sorry if it offended anyone.

kristiaxid,

Thanks for responding to my post. I do understand the reason for your comments and I apologize if singling your post out made you uncomfortable. It's just that there have been so many comments concerning racism, GLO's, and the South lately that the whole issue has gotten me, for lack of a better term, "fired up." I'm sure that you meant no real offense.

I just really needed to vent for a while, and I hope you can understand how frustrating it is for Southern Greeks to listen over and over again to criticism regarding diversity issues in our chapters when there is nothing at all that we can truly do about it.

Basically, what I'm attempting to say here is that your opinions are always welcome at GreekChat (whether I happen to agree with them or not

) and I hope that my outspoken post will not make you shy away from voicing your thoughts.

Carrie

ChaosDST · #35 11-14-2001, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dzrose93

Maybe no black men were interested in joining a "white" fraternity at the University of Alabama until now. I know that A Phi A has been there since 1974 and is a well-known, historically-black fraternity that draws many interested black men on campus. I'm not sure if there are other historically black fraternal groups currently present on the campus also, but I would expect that the number of black men rushing historically "white" GLO's at the University of Alabama, a state school in the Deep South, has been rather small in the past.

Regardless of why it happened this year as opposed to any other time is irrelevant. We should be happy that it has in fact happened, and look forward to further integration among the groups.

Yeah. This isn't directed at YOU, but let's not act naive here. We KNOW why it took so long for a black man to join a historically white fraternity. Also, nationwide, there aren't a whole lot of black people in historically white fraternities and sororities either.

ChaosDST · #36 11-14-2001, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G8Ralphaxi
The other problem we encountered is that when minorities do go through our system, there is a LOT of pressure from their families, friends, etc. NOT to join. They are told that they are "selling out" by joining a "white girl sorority" instead of an NPHC sorority.

Some houses at UF the girls literally are all about the same size and have the same haircut/color. Attack of the Clones! My sorority never looked like "cookie-cutter" sisters. We had a great mix of tall and short, christian and jewish (and a buddhist), every hair color, etc. We had a number of hispanic and asian sisters. It never was a big deal to us. Our whole approach to Rush was looking for girls that we wanted to have as friends. I still remember what our Rush chair told us my sophomore year: "You want the girl who you can picture yourself watching silly TV shows with."

The 4 years that I was an active sister, we had only one black member, and she dropped out before initiation. Her mom made her quit because we didn't have any other black girls. Really made a lot of us upset - she was really sweet - i.e. someone you want to watch silly TV shows with! It's very frustrating when someone criticizes you for not having black sisters, when none will join because you have no black sisters! You can't win.

You've made a good point. Being in a historically Black sorority, I can see how it would be difficult for historically white sororities and fraternities to get black members. PERSONALLY, I don't see what would attract a black person to a historically white fraternity or sorority. But, there are black students that mingle best, and fit in better, with historically white fraternity and sorority members. In some cases, these people are sell outs, but NOT IN ALL. I would just hope that non-white members of such organizations would use their "opportunity" to educate their fellow sorority sisters and fraternity brothers re: tolerance, diversity, race issues, etc. In turn, the non-white members can gain from, and learn a great deal from their sorority sisters and fraternity brothers as well.

dzrose93 · #37 11-14-2001, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChaosDST

Yeah. This isn't directed at YOU, but let's not act naive here. We KNOW why it took so long for a black man to join a historically white fraternity. Also, nationwide, there aren't a whole lot of black people in historically white fraternities and sororities either.

Naive? I don't think so. I'd like to know what you feel is the reason for the length of time it took for a black man to join a historically white fraternity, Chaos.

As for nationwide numbers of black people in historically white GLO's, the same could be said for white people in historically black GLO's. The door swings both ways. Will you agree to that?

I'd also like to reiterate that many black people interested in joining historically-white GLO's are discouraged from the idea by their black peers. One particular instance that stands out in my mind is a story from one of my DZ sisters. A black girl pledged XYZ sorority at my sister's campus and was very happy in the chapter. The girls loved her and she fit in very well. A few weeks before initiation, the Black Student Alliance on campus - angry that she had "sold out" to a white sorority - spraypainted the sorority house. The girl turned in her pledge pin and quit.

Just something to think about while you're wondering why there aren't many black people in historically white GLO's.

dzrose93 · #38 11-14-2001, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChaosDST

PERSONALLY, I don't see what would attract a black person to a historically white fraternity or sorority. But, there are black students that mingle best, and fit in better, with historically white fraternity and sorority members. In some cases, these people are sell outs, but NOT IN ALL.

Why is a person a sell out for choosing a group that has a white majority? I realize that you said "NOT ALL" of these people are sell-outs, but I'd like you to give me an example of someone who is. I really don't understand the logic here. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, just want to see what your viewpoint is.

AlphaChiGirl · #39 11-14-2001, 07:23 PM

Yes, it can be hard for African-Americans, Latinos, and Asian Americans to join because of family and/or peer criticism. BUT, I do not feel that is the reason for such low numbers in certain regions of the country. Let's not beat around the bush here. Do you think that many blacks are going to rush at Auburn next year, after what happened? Do you think scores of African-American women are going to rush at UGa?

Most of the people are TOO OLD to be this NAIVE.

carnation · #40 11-14-2001, 08:04 PM

I don't think many black women will rush at Auburn for various reasons, the main one being that they tend not to dream of Pi Phi or Kappa or the NPC organizations, but of Delta Sigma Theta, AKA, and the other fine organizations of the NPHC. The ones they've heard about all their lives, the ones their sisters and mothers are in. There's a black woman in AOPi at Auburn and I'm glad...I wish Auburn's GLOS and BGLOs were more diverse.

But another reason that they may not rush there, of course, is that they'd feel uncomfortable. I've seen enough posts on GC from members of BGLOs saying that they wouldn't want whites in their organizations to know that I'd feel very uncomfortable at their functions. To each his own...

However, I have 5 non-white daughters and I'm sure that they'll rush NPC sororities. It's all they've ever heard from the family and their friends at school.

What it all boils down to is that people tend to rush where they feel most at home. We have many non-Caucasian members of NIC and NPC organizations on Greek Chat, some from Southern campuses, and they went where their hearts told them to. Didn't we all?

ChaosDST · #41 11-14-2001, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dzrose93

Naive? I don't think so. I'd like to know what you feel is the reason for the length of time it took for a black man to join a historically white fraternity, Chaos.

As for nationwide numbers of black people in historically white GLO's, the same could be said for white people in historically black GLO's. The door swings both ways. Will you agree to that?

I'd also like to reiterate that many black people interested in joining historically-white GLO's are discouraged from the idea by their black peers. One particular instance that stands out in my mind is a story from one of my DZ sisters. A black girl pledged XYZ sorority at my sister's campus and was very happy in the chapter. The girls loved her and she fit in very well. A few weeks before initiation, the Black Student Alliance on campus - angry that she had "sold out" to a white sorority - spraypainted the sorority house. The girl turned in her pledge pin and quit.

Just something to think about while you're wondering why there aren't many black people in historically white GLO's.

You seem to have taken my comments personally, relax. I was never the one wondering why there aren't many black people in historically white GLOs. There not being ANY blacks in GLOs would be fine with me, as long as it's THEIR choice for not being in them, and not the result of hatred and bigotry. The same goes for whites in BGLOs. I feel as if this thread will go off on a tangent if I express my reservations, so I will save my commentary for another time...if that's alright with you.

ChaosDST · #42 11-14-2001, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dzrose93

Why is a person a sell out for choosing a group that has a white majority? I realize that you said "NOT ALL" of these people are sell-outs, but I'd like you to give me an example of someone who is. I really don't understand the logic here. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, just want to see what your viewpoint is.

It depends on WHY that person choosing to join the group. There are those who do not KNOW how to interact within his/her own culture and purposely chooses things outside of the culture. THAT person is a sell out. If that's not simple enough for you, then unfortunately this may be one of those things you won't understand. No disrespect given or taken...just discussion.

SH80er · #43 11-15-2001, 12:24 PM

Just a few thoughts....

*I have no problem with certain "WGLOs" having no black people in their chapter or "BGLOs" having no white people in their chapter. I'd rather for it to be that way, than a GLO to accept members of a different race, that they may not accept otherwise, just to say that they have diversity and to make their chapter "look good".

*I'm sorry, but I think anyone who wonders why a person would join a GLO of a different race is somewhat ignorant. People join GLOs and other organizations with people that they have common interests, background, and goals with, not just race which is ONLY skin deep. (I've read several comments like this on GC)

*Anyone that has issues with calling a person of a different race a "sister" or "brother", has issues themselves. (I've also read this somewhere on GC)

SigmaChiCard · #44 11-15-2001, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChaosDST
PERSONALLY, I don't see what would attract a black person to a historically white fraternity or sorority. But, there are black students that mingle best, and fit in better, with historically white fraternity and sorority members. In some cases, these people are sell outs, but NOT IN ALL.

I guess they are selling because they want to fit in and mingle better? Isn't part of the reason you chose your sorority because you fit in there? Or were you selling out because of that? Just Curious

dzrose93 · #45 11-15-2001, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChaosDST
It depends on WHY that person choosing to join the group. There are those who do not KNOW how to interact within his/her own culture and purposely chooses things outside of the culture. THAT person is a sell out. If that's not simple enough for you, then unfortunately this may be one of those things you won't understand. No disrespect given or taken...just discussion.

Okay, let me make sure that I'm understanding you correctly. A person who doesn't know how to interact within his/her own culture and purposely chooses things outside of that culture is a sell-out.

So, what you're saying is that you would rather have these "sell-outs" join a group that a) they don't feel comfortable in, b)among people whose culture they aren't familar with, and c) learn to fit in with that particular culture just because of the color of their skin?

You would prefer that a person join a historically-black organization for the sole purpose of learning "black" culture that he may never before have been immersed in INSTEAD of having him join a non-black organization that he feels at home in and in which there are members who share his interests?

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the logic. It sounds like you'd prefer a separatist way of life in which each race sticks to its own "culture". However, you also rail against the fact that it took so long for a black man to be admitted to a historically-white fraternity. It seems to me like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Honestly, Chaos, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you... I just want you to explain to me how you can argue both sides of an issue that way. Please help me to understand the message you're trying to get across, because I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only GCer confused by these mixed signals right now.