Hazing History

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

So apparently Clinton is very Greek. That is what, four different orgs?

Some would say making up for lost time...

Seriously, Georgetown, where Clinton was an undergraduate had two active pledging greek letter organizations in the 1960s: Alpha Phi Omega and the Foreign Service Fraternity. He pledged and initiated into Alpha Phi Omega. Alpha Phi Omega is a service fraternity, but IMO, with no social greeks on campus, had a somewhat wider organizational niche than it might have at other schools.

Senusret can speak to this in even greater detail, he pledged Alpha Phi Omega at Georgetown.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by naraht

Some would say making up for lost time...

Seriously, Georgetown, where Clinton was an undergraduate had two active pledging greek letter organizations in the 1960s: Alpha Phi Omega and the Foreign Service Fraternity. He pledged and initiated into Alpha Phi Omega. Alpha Phi Omega is a service fraternity, but IMO, with no social greeks on campus, had a somewhat wider organizational niche than it might have at other schools.

Senusret can speak to this in even greater detail, he pledged Alpha Phi Omega at Georgetown.

Delta Sigma Pi was also on campus and shared many of the same traditions. That's all I can think of to add.

[ADPiTigergurl]

I love how this went from a train wreck to a Greek History lesson.

And yes, I'd say anyone with 4 orgs, should be considered very Greek.

[Gusteau]

Benjamin Harrison was also a Delta Chi. He was the president at the time of our founding and was a highly acclaimed lawyer, making him an ideal candidate. He was initiated at a time when we were still a professional law fraternity and we still allowed dual membership.

ETA: To further clarify, Delta Chi does not have "Honorary Initiates" at present. I do not know if this was the case when Harrison was initiated, but I think the policy was the same. Alumnus Initiates are full members of Delta Chi

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I knew that at one point. Thanks for the reminder.

Now that I did not know.



These I don't know about. Thanks.

I found the Churck Norris fact on the Kappa Kappa Psi web page, not a chapter one so I think it is going to be more accurate. I remember the Phi Beta Sigma announcement re: Clinton, they voted him for membership but there hasn't been a ceremony yet so he technically wasn't a member, yet.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Benjamin Harrison was also a Delta Chi. He was the president at the time of our founding and was a highly acclaimed lawyer, making him an ideal candidate. He was initiated at a time when we were still a professional law fraternity and we still allowed dual membership.

ETA: To further clarify, Delta Chi does not have "Honorary Initiates" at present. I do not know if this was the case when Harrison was initiated, but I think the policy was the same. Alumnus Initiates are full members of Delta Chi

I'll grant from the poster that he may not count as an "Honorary Initiate", so perhaps the question is better asked in the positive, "Which of these presidents were actively seeking an Associate's or Bachelor's degree during the time at which they became a member of the fraternity?".

Randy

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by naraht

I'll grant from the poster that he may not count as an "Honorary Initiate", so perhaps the question is better asked in the positive, "Which of these presidents were actively seeking an Associate's or Bachelor's degree during the time at which they became a member of the fraternity?".

Randy

Good point.

I won't deny that Harrison's initiation (and others during that time period, William Jennings Bryan being another notable one) was certainly honorary in nature, if not terminology.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Hmm. How would one go about initiating a president anyway? I don't see the Secret Service letting their principle be looked in a room full of strangers.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Hmm. How would one go about initiating a president anyway? I don't see the Secret Service letting their principle be looked in a room full of strangers.

First, I'm sure the secret service wants a list of who will be in that room, secondly, I'm guessing everyone gets patted down and thirdly, I'm guessing for most fraternities that if the requirement on making a president a member is that 2 trained secret service professionals have to be in the room as well, that they would accept the requirement. Who knows, you might actually be able to find who secret service agents who are already brothers, or consider them worthy to be honorary brothers as well!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Stephen Grover Cleveland 1885–1889 and 1893–1897 Sigma Chi

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I knew there was a president who was an honorary Sigma Chi, but I couldn't remember who.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Hmm. How would one go about initiating a president anyway? I don't see the Secret Service letting their principle be looked in a room full of strangers.

Wouldn't happen in a post JFK world. Might not happen politically either. A former president (like Clinton), sure. A sitting president -- nope.

[oldu]

Part of the confusion here is terminology. "Honorary membership" can be confusing, witness the embarrasment between Mrs. Obama and one of the NPHC groups. Hayes, Cleveland, McKinley & Truman were all actually initiated as members after college in, we presume, the traditional ceremony. By contrast, there is no record anywhere that either Eisenhower or Kennedy were ever initiated. It is likely they were made "honorary" members either by citation by the national or some local chapter just deciding to do so. The first president to be legitimately initiated as an undergraduate was Garfield and the last was Bush II. I don't mean to split hairs but many Greek organizations allow special initiations of people beyond college age and they probably should not be called "honorary." My conception of that term is someone who is not really a member but deserve the title because of the respect the organization has for them.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by oldu

I don't mean to split hairs but many Greek organizations allow special initiations of people beyond college age and they probably should not be called "honorary." My conception of that term is someone who is not really a member but deserve the title because of the respect the organization has for them.

Well, we have to go with the terminology that the organizations use. I can see how that might be your conception of honorary, but many organizations seem to feel differently. Whether those initiated after college should be called "honorary" or not, the fact is they often are. My fraternity's constitution, for example, provides for four classes of membership: probationary (pledge), collegiate, alumnus and honorary.

A chapter can (with appropriate approval) initiate a chapter honorary and our National Executive Committee can at convention initiate a national honorary (Chapter designation: Alpha Alpha). The only differences between an honorary member and a collegiate or alumnus member is that the honorary member did not go through a probationary membership period and was not initiated while connected to an educational institution hosting a chapter. (Grad students and faculty/staff can be initiated as "collegiate" members and then transfer to alumnus status.) All honorary members must be initiated, though.

I can see why one might want a different term or at least wish that all GLOs used the same or similar terminology, but that horse has left the barn.

I think, for purposes such as this, the issue is whether the fraternity in question claims the president in question as a member. If they do, I'm not sure it's my place to dispute that claim simply because, under similar circumstances (such as not undergoing initiation), my fraternity would not claim him as a member.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by oldu

"Honorary membership" can be confusing, witness the embarrasment between Mrs. Obama and one of the NPHC groups.

Embarrassment? Is that what it was?

[emb021]

Originally Posted by naraht

First, I'm sure the secret service wants a list of who will be in that room, secondly, I'm guessing everyone gets patted down and thirdly, I'm guessing for most fraternities that if the requirement on making a president a member is that 2 trained secret service professionals have to be in the room as well, that they would accept the requirement. Who knows, you might actually be able to find who secret service agents who are already brothers, or consider them worthy to be honorary brothers as well!

Hmmmm, am reminded of the story of Harry S Truman and a masonic meeting he attended while president.

The story goes that Truman (a past WM, ie lodge president) was invited to the initation of a new masonic Brother while president. As non-masons are NOT allowed into the chambers, his Secret Service detail wasn't going along with that. Truman said something to the affect that there are few places he would be safer then in a masonic chamber amoung his fellow masons, and entered, without the security guys.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by emb021

The story goes that Truman (a past WM, ie lodge president) was invited to the initation of a new masonic Brother while president. . . . .

Actually, he was past Grand Master of Missouri.

And fwiw, the story, as I have heard it, did still involve a search of the lodge room and of all present by the secret service. Great story, though.