Has someone of the opposite sex ever tried to pledge to your chapter?

[Gusteau]

Composite bingo made my day! If only abolishing auxiliary groups stopped that from happening!

I thought that I had read that Delta Chi banned auxiliary groups because of Title IX, but now I cannot for the life of me find the Fraternity's Statement of Position on the issue. This is the first time my Cornerstone has failed me...

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Composite bingo made my day! If only abolishing auxiliary groups stopped that from happening!

I thought that I had read that Delta Chi banned auxiliary groups because of Title IX, but now I cannot for the life of me find the Fraternity's Statement of Position on the issue. This is the first time my Cornerstone has failed me...

I think it was a combination of Title IX, risk management and NPC pushing it and passing rules (by group) that said if you're an XYZ sorority member you can't be an ABC little sister. Truth be told, as far as my experience went, the best little sister groups had rules that you couldn't be in a sorority - so kind of a reverse "bite me" going on there. (And most of those girls did NOT play composite bingo, either.) But there were some little sister groups that practically all the little sisters were members of the same sorority. (Those girls did play composite bingo. Just saying is all. LOL.)

As far as Chaz Bono showing up to convention, I find it very doubtful that most people who go through the operation would do that. I think they just want to live their lives in a way that makes them happy, not do things that they know would make others uncomfortable.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by 33girl

As far as Chaz Bono showing up to convention, I find it very doubtful that most people who go through the operation would do that. I think they just want to live their lives in a way that makes them happy, not do things that they know would make others uncomfortable.

LOL.

I definitly agree that there is probably a low chance of the situation occurring. Additionally, I feel that many organizations aim to promote a higher form of manhood/womanhood and these values would probably no longer resonate with the individual - and consequently translate into zero alumni involvement.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Composite bingo made my day! If only abolishing auxiliary groups stopped that from happening!

I thought that I had read that Delta Chi banned auxiliary groups because of Title IX, but now I cannot for the life of me find the Fraternity's Statement of Position on the issue. This is the first time my Cornerstone has failed me...

I did a little digging and found a resource on why our fraternity, at least, banned little sister groups. These were the reasons:

1. The formation of auxiliary groups can (and has proven to) adversely affect the relationship between the local chapters of Sinfonia and local chapters of existing music fraternities for women.
2. Women's organizations and female faculty members often consider these auxiliary groups to be demeaning and sexist because the women involved in such groups are faced with the responsibilities of membership without the reward of full membership status in the fraternity.
3. The existence of such groups extends the already-broad range of chapter and national liability.
4. The functioning of a fraternity chapter and little sisters as a common unit at social and other events could jeopardize the Fraternity's single-sex membership, as suggested by the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in a case involving the Jaycees.
5. The existence of another chapter-sponsored group results in the diverting of time, effort, and money, which are needed for chapter operation and programming.
6. Because of the relationship between the groups, brothers sometimes share fraternity secrets with members of the auxiliary group, either knowingly or unknowingly.
7. Many individuals outside the Fraternity world view these organizations as formalized dating services. They are critical also because the women's focus in such groups is totally on the men rather than on their own personal development.

Item # 4 would indicate that a concern for losing single-sex status was indeed involved, but it was not related to Title IX. So I would repeat, I don't think Title IX had anything to do with it -- I frankly don't see how it would. I think it's just that so many people associate single-sex status with Title IX that there is an assumption the two are always related, and they're not.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Item # 4 would indicate that a concern for losing single-sex status was indeed involved, but it was not related to Title IX. So I would repeat, I don't think Title IX had anything to do with it -- I frankly don't see how it would. I think it's just that so many people associate single-sex status with Title IX that there is an assumption the two are always related, and they're not.

I still, to increased consternation, cannot find Delta Chi's official position on it. However, after reading your post I've realized that I know the wording is something along the lines of "jeopardizing single sex status" and the Title IX connection was probably a mental connection on my part.

[KD4Me]

I was in college when auxiliary groups were banned, and there was definite concern on the part of NPC groups (maybe fraternities as well, I don't remember that) that allowing them to continue could jeopardize the single-sex status of both fraternities and sororities. There may have been other factors as well, but that is the reason that we were given.

[Gusteau]

FOUND IT!

The resolution, passed in 1990, is not as specific as I originally thought - the only mention it makes of reasons for abolishing them is:

"the existence of such groups may engender harm to the Fraternity in a variety of ways"

[VandalSquirrel]

I still want to know who is collecting this data, and what it is going to be used for as it wasn't on the survey monkey page. Four classes on research methods in college makes me want to know who is wanting my opinion, under what authority, and why. I couldn't find a PI to contact if I had questions and that is a concern for me.

[akamie]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I still want to know who is collecting this data, and what it is going to be used for as it wasn't on the survey monkey page. Four classes on research methods in college makes me want to know who is wanting my opinion, under what authority, and why. I couldn't find a PI to contact if I had questions and that is a concern for me.

Vandal- I was the person distributing the survey, and since I am a registered user of Greek Chat, and signed my posts as a member of Sigma Sigma Sigma, Eta Zeta chapter so in that avenue I think there were several ways open for you to contact me if you had any questions. First off, I haven't received any PM's on the topic so I'm assuming you didn't try that, but also a simple google search with my name and organization would've brought you to the website with my contact info, or at least contact info of my organization. You were certainly more than welcome to utilize those methods, and since participation is voluntary its a mute point anyway.

The research I conducted, and have decided to continue to conduct for the next couple of years, was as stated in my distribution letter a study designed to assess the attitudes of Greek Life towards Gender, and the participation of alternative lifestyles (in this case alternative gender classes) in Greek Life as component of participation in the student life polity. (This is what qualitative research calls an ethnography). The survey is only one method my research has utilized and the study as whole is objective, but in the realm of political sociology is attempting to expose power structures of the Greek Life system, and what could be a potential problem of inclusion/exclusion in politics. For anyone who is interested you can reference the 2007 District Court of Appeals case that upheld the College of Staten Island's refusal to recognize a fraternity on campus that was single-sex. Prior discussion on the matter ended with Title IX back in the 90s, but to those of you who think the matter is trivial I can point to that case as just one of many examples of how it is not, beginning as early as a 1985 California Law Review that would outline the constitutional claim of an individual denied access to a "College Social Organization" regardless of federal statutes like Title IX. There are also numerous "alternative" Greek organization that fall under neither NPC or NIC's umbrellas that are coed that have come as a backlash to exclusion. The point of the study is to provide the foundation for these kinds of discussions to take place, and to encourage the discussions to reach comprehensive policy status before the battle each chapter faces ends up in a courtroom like Alpha Epsilon Pi did in 2006...

I can't wait for the research to be complete, and I'll gladly share the results with everyone who wants them when the study is conclusive.

[akamie]

I also feel like its worth mentioning here that the comments made about individuals who go under a sex change are kind of irrelevant to my study, although very interesting as well!, since we're focusing on gender issues, which by the world health organization are defined by behavior, not physical state of being (which is sex). Of course whether or not thats a true definition is debatable, but accounted for in our survey.

Also, I should mention that my campus is very non-traditional. The current pledge class president is around 40 years old, and just now pledging to SAE, plus Greek Life membership doesn't end at 22- membership is for life so I think the matter is very relevant, especially in a society that is becoming increasingly genderless according to sociology literature.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by akamie

Vandal- I was the person distributing the survey, and since I am a registered user of Greek Chat, and signed my posts as a member of Sigma Sigma Sigma, Eta Zeta chapter so in that avenue I think there were several ways open for you to contact me if you had any questions. First off, I haven't received any PM's on the topic so I'm assuming you didn't try that, but also a simple google search with my name and organization would've brought you to the website with my contact info, or at least contact info of my organization. You were certainly more than welcome to utilize those methods, and since participation is voluntary its a mute point anyway.

The research I conducted, and have decided to continue to conduct for the next couple of years, was as stated in my distribution letter a study designed to assess the attitudes of Greek Life towards Gender, and the participation of alternative lifestyles (in this case alternative gender classes) in Greek Life as component of participation in the student life polity. (This is what qualitative research calls an ethnography). The survey is only one method my research has utilized and the study as whole is objective, but in the realm of political sociology is attempting to expose power structures of the Greek Life system, and what could be a potential problem of inclusion/exclusion in politics. For anyone who is interested you can reference the 2007 District Court of Appeals case that upheld the College of Staten Island's refusal to recognize a fraternity on campus that was single-sex. Prior discussion on the matter ended with Title IX back in the 90s, but to those of you who think the matter is trivial I can point to that case as just one of many examples of how it is not, beginning as early as a 1985 California Law Review that would outline the constitutional claim of an individual denied access to a "College Social Organization" regardless of federal statutes like Title IX. There are also numerous "alternative" Greek organization that fall under neither NPC or NIC's umbrellas that are coed that have come as a backlash to exclusion. The point of the study is to provide the foundation for these kinds of discussions to take place, and to encourage the discussions to reach comprehensive policy status before the battle each chapter faces ends up in a courtroom like Alpha Epsilon Pi did in 2006...

I can't wait for the research to be complete, and I'll gladly share the results with everyone who wants them when the study is conclusive.

Originally Posted by akamie

I also feel like its worth mentioning here that the comments made about individuals who go under a sex change are kind of irrelevant to my study, although very interesting as well!, since we're focusing on gender issues, which by the world health organization are defined by behavior, not physical state of being (which is sex). Of course whether or not thats a true definition is debatable, but accounted for in our survey.

Also, I should mention that my campus is very non-traditional. The current pledge class president is around 40 years old, and just now pledging to SAE, plus Greek Life membership doesn't end at 22- membership is for life so I think the matter is very relevant, especially in a society that is becoming increasingly genderless according to sociology literature.

You completely missed my point. I cannot do any research associated with my university without permission from the IRB (Institutional Review Board) and the HAC (Human Assurances Committee). Since you're dealing with human subjects, and asking about sensitive information such as sex and gender, I assumed you'd have to go through some office and have approval and faculty oversight. One shouldn't have to search for the details about the project, it should be readily available and perhaps the University of Alaska Anchorage has different standards for student research than other schools. However I didn't find your project listed here http://ugresearch.uaa.alaska.edu/~urps/view_student.php so I thought I'd mention that I couldn't find the information. I've never seen a study without a faculty contact, so I asked. We get so many people on here asking for help with their projects, and the fact your name and chapter is listed doesn't mean a whole lot as anyone can register on GreekChat, and we've had all kinds of crazy, including impostors and perps.

[akamie]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

You completely missed my point. I cannot do any research associated with my university without permission from the IRB (Institutional Review Board) and the HAC (Human Assurances Committee). Since you're dealing with human subjects, and asking about sensitive information such as sex and gender, I assumed you'd have to go through some office and have approval and faculty oversight. One shouldn't have to search for the details about the project, it should be readily available and perhaps the University of Alaska Anchorage has different standards for student research than other schools. However I didn't find your project listed here http://ugresearch.uaa.alaska.edu/~urps/view_student.php so I thought I'd mention that I couldn't find the information. I've never seen a study without a faculty contact, so I asked. We get so many people on here asking for help with their projects, and the fact your name and chapter is listed doesn't mean a whole lot as anyone can register on GreekChat, and we've had all kinds of crazy, including impostors and perps.

As I stated before, this survey was only one facet of our research study, and yes we did have to go through quite an extensive Institutional Review Board project for the study of human subjects, including not only the traditional course and testing process required by our university but a hearing process as well that would allow us to research non-consenting parties in an ethical manner. Many studies are not made "readily available" to the public because their results depend on a degree of unawareness of the subjects they study, but those studies including this one also tend to have the most invigorating vetting process for approval as a protection. Since one of our methods utilized researching non-consenting parties you will not find our research listed at that website to protect the integrity of the study- moreover the majority of those projects are not current undertaking and are only listed on the website once the study is in full swing and findings ready for publication, which are research has just barely achieved. However, we do have a faculty sponsor and approval from our institution. And while I understand that it can be easy to be pose as someone else online, the point that I was contactable by not only this venue but a simple google search should have led to no alarm regarding the study. By the way, this is not simply for your information, but the information of anyone who was wary of participating in this forum or the survey which in and of itself were both voluntary public acts.