TRANSGENDER: NPHC and NALFO question

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Over the past few years, I've been more exposed to the T in LGBT....

Ditto. This includes my acquaintances who I shared a horrendously long Greyhound bus ride with years ago and have stayed in with touch eversince.

Both of these individuals are obviously born male, despite the hormones they are taking, and display exaggerated feminine traits (such exaggeration is often characteristic of transgenderism). One of these he-to-she individuals is getting married and has expressed interest in going back to college.

I kept thinking about what would happen if she wanted to join an NPHC sorority. This article made me think about it even more. I wonder if her transgenderism was less obvious (it may be less obvious with more hormones and gender assimilation), would I feel differently given that she had all of the other qualifications including excelling in academics and service. I don't know. I think she'd have a difficult time PERIOD.

[DrPhil]

That disclaimer tickled me.

Senusret, everyone knows you're way too masculine and too much of a "he" to be transgendered. Not even for a second.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DiamondAthena

My personal thoughts, don't tell me you want to be my soror, but ask me to call you brother!

I don't imagine that becoming an issue. I'm a female brother in a fraternity right now.

[Minerva's Torch]

Originally Posted by DiamondAthena

My personal thoughts, don't tell me you want to be my soror, but ask me to call you brother!

In that case, you might wanna re-think your siggy.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Minerva's Torch

In that case, you might wanna re-think your siggy.

Why?

[DiamondAthena]

Well one main difference in Greek orgs versus other non-profits is our ability(501 c 10 status) to be able to discriminate based on gender or sex( obviously not co-ed fraternities) And the T in GLBT is the only reference to sex and rather than sexual orientation; so that could be used to prohibit membership.

And, Minervas Torch, my sig refers to culture, and ones gender is NOT his or her culture.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DiamondAthena

Well one main difference in Greek orgs versus other non-profits is our ability(501 c 10 status) to be able to discriminate based on gender or sex( obviously not co-ed fraternities)

University-based Greek organizations are 501(c)7s. And, that's not why you can discriminate based on gender. It's your Title IX exemption that allows that.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I don't imagine that becoming an issue. I'm a female brother in a fraternity right now.

Exactly. If we're going to stick with semantics it doesn't affect you as an APO brother. But from the perspective of a sorority IMO the distinction is valid.

Originally Posted by DiamondAthena

And, Minervas Torch, my sig refers to culture, and ones gender is NOT his or her culture.

Part of my culture/my cultural reference very much has to do with my gender identity as a female.

Assuming they meet all the qualifications of membership, I can say with certainty I would vote to accept a transgendered person that has made the transition from male to female. For someone that is questioning (either female to male or male to female that has yet to commit to making the change), I would not vote to accept because I wouldn't feel they are ready. I think it is similar (not the same) to not voting on an aspirant that is unsure of her ability to meet the requirements of the intake process or membership. If they are unsure about their status and abilities to uphold the ideals, then how can I be sure about them?

[DiamondAthena]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

University-based Greek organizations are 501(c)7s. And, that's not why you can discriminate based on gender. It's your Title IX exemption that allows that.

I stand corrected. But does anyone else think that this could be used to discriminate against transgendered individuals?

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

Exactly. If we're going to stick with semantics it doesn't affect you as an APO brother. But from the perspective of a sorority IMO the distinction is valid.

What I'm saying is that, if the person understood that he would be a sister/soror in a given organization and he accepted that, I have no problem. The issue for legal females who identify as male is that their legal gender precludes them from joining social Greek fraternities. Of course, there are community-based LGBT Greek organizations, but that may not be what a person is looking for.

Assuming they meet all the qualifications of membership, I can say with certainty I would vote to accept a transgendered person that has made the transition from male to female.

However, you could only accept that person if she had been deemed "female" in a legal sense, through a court order to change the gender listed on the birth certificate and other documents. Otherwise, the organization would lose its exemption and be forced to become co-ed/non-exclusive.

Originally Posted by DiamondAthena

I stand corrected. But does anyone else think that this could be used to discriminate against transgendered individuals?

Only if the gender is legally changed.

[DrPhil]

preciousjeni, I appreciate that you are keeping the legal issue highlighted. That is much more objective than differing opinions on transgenderism, itself, and "why" someone would want to join XYZ if he is a he.

Of course even with legal changes transgendered people will be discriminated against in many, if not most, chapters if their transgenderism is known. That is still considered a form of deviance, in terms of deviating from what is considered the norm.

[Delta33]

OK, does Jane Doe still have a penis? If so, then he is still a part of frat x. If John no longer has a penis and has a vagina, then he is now a female who has probably changed his name to a female name and could possibly join a sorority.

Does anyone on here have any rules of trans gender people in their org? Probably not since most org's history was written in the 1800's or early 1900's when people didnt even really know about transgender.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Delta33

Does anyone on here have any rules of trans gender people in their org? Probably not since most org's history was written in the 1800's or early 1900's when people didnt even really know about transgender.

"Most org's history" refers to what?

Constitutions, rituals, policies and procedures, membership intake manuals, etc. for many if not most older organizations have been reviewed and even updated since the org's were founded.

But you are correct that transgenderism and other "what ifs" were not outlined because they were and are considered to be rare considerations.

[starang21]

i think the "more than one NPHC org." rule would be in effect. if a woman was a man and in a fraternity, she'd still technically be in the fraternity, right? unless things like SSN changes when you get your dick lopped off.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by starang21

i think the "more than one NPHC org." rule would be in effect. if a woman was a man and in a fraternity, she'd still technically be in the fraternity, right? unless things like SSN changes when you get your dick lopped off.

Well, I don't know if she would still be in the fraternity or not (they are not, after all, coed organizations), but having BEEN in the fraternity, then that would be more than one NPHC org if she then tried to join a sorority.

It seems to me that if you legally want to be recognized as gender B, then all your previous associations with single-sex groups of gender A would therefore be voided. But I am not a lawyer.