Woman blinded by acid wants same fate for attacker

[AGDee]

Vigilante justice is a scary concept.

I worked for a family owned dry cleaners in high school. There were two brothers who lived together. One night, one of them woke up and heard someone "breaking in". He ran downstairs with his gun and shot the guy. He didn't have good aim, luckily, because he shot his brother in the leg as he was stumbling around the kitchen after a late night of drinking way too much.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

"Yes, he was running away. But instead of calling the police, I decided to shoot him on the off chance that he might come back and kill my spouse."

Joe Horn ITY?

[Zephyrus]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Actually, I can answer this from personal experience. My wife and I were almost killed by a drunk driver two years ago. It was his third DUI; he was so intoxicated that he fell asleep at the wheel after the collision. Mind you, he crossed over the center line and hit us head-on, and his estimated rate of speed was 70 mph; so, that gives you an idea of how drunk he was at the time. My wife and I are lucky to be alive today.

So, with that said, it hasn't changed my views on these legal issues.



I could go on for pages about this topic, but I'll keep it short...

You're taking a very specific situation (someone breaking into your house), and asking that the entire criminal law be re-written to answer that concern. I understand the emotional response, but you really need to look at it big picture.

As to those who plead insanity - again, it's not sane people pleading it as some sort of bargaining chip. If you're that interested and passionate about the topic, it may be worth it for you to do some research into the area, and read stories of people who were actually mentally ill when they have committed serious crimes. When these people go into treatment, it's not like they're going to the Hilton. Additionally, they're still being taken out of society, so it's not like they automatically get to walk the streets free and clear.

I'm saying to get rid of the insane too (if they hurt or kill someone) Basically whatever they do to someone else, do the same exact thing back to them. It's only fair man. It's only fair. That way the morons who try to use that as a cop out, fry too.

Back to your drunk driving incident. First off, I'm sorry to hear that happened to you and your wife, glad to see you're still here to talk about it. What baffles the hell out of me is why was that his 3rd DUI? See, this is what erks the fk out of me. It's shit like this that, that make the law all wrong. No, I can't change it, but I can voice an opinion on it, like I'm doing now. I just can't see what you don't get about that. I know you're in school for it, so you have to understand the law in order to enforce or defend it, but I would have a hard time enforcing something or defending something that I believe is wrong. Seriously dude, think about what you just said. This sick fuck hit you and your wife at over 70mph, and then on top of that it was his 3rd DUI. WTF!!!! How does that happen? Here's a story for ya. Today, I had to get a ticket waved. A few weeks ago the cops stopped me because my tail lights weren't working, so he said that I would get a ticket in the mail. He said it would be waved once I got the matter fixed. I fixed it that day and kept the receipt. I got the ticket in the mail a couple of days ago, and it said that I had to mail it in before 3-5-09. He said that I could have any cop sign off on it, so I took it to the cops in my city to have it done. Out of curiosity I asked the cop behind the counter what would happen if I forgot to mail it in. He said if it wasn't mailed in by the 5th there would be a warrant out for my arrest. Once he told me that, I decided to drive the signed off ticket to the court house rather than mailing it to make sure that it was waved. I had them make copies of everything for my records, and that cost me 2 bucks. Now, what kind of shit is that. There would be a warrant out for my arrest for a simple fix it ticket, but yet you and your wife get hit by a drunk driver who is out doing the shit again for the 3rd fking time. Then OJ Simpson gets off on murder charges (his own fking wife). Dude, that's bullshit! If it isn't then I don't what is. If I forgot to to have the ticket signed off on, fine me and then garnish my wages, but don't arrest me. I could see if I killed or hurt someone, or robbed a bank but a fix it ticket? Give me a break.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I mean . . . you really have to look at both sides here.

I didn't see it that way. I was mainly talking about after the fact or knowing without a doubt, that he committed the crime.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I don't know what you mean, Zyphyrus, when you say, "Wouldn't you want him to fry for that?" but I would not want him to get the death penalty. I do believe, however, that he should definitely do jail time, which he is.

Another thing to remember is that people make mistakes. Sometimes out of stupidity, sometimes it's a one time thing and they learn their lesson, sometimes they just don't know any better. Let's take the whole breaking and entering example... let's suppose people break into your house. You hear noise from your bedroom, you get up, grab your gun, and you head downstairs. It's dark, but you see two men in your kitchen going through your purse. They notice you and they start to run out the back door. As they're running across your lawn, you shoot and kill them both.

You call the police. They arrive. They go through the pockets of the two guys lying on the ground outside and they find their wallets with their IDs. They were both 16. The parents of the two young boys show up and are devastated.

Would you not feel the least bit guilty?

You said a few posts back that you'd be surprised that you would go to jail if you shot at burglars as they were leaving your house. In the example you gave in your last post, you said something to the effect of, " What if you don't shoot him as he's leaving and he comes back and kills a loved one?" Well guess what, that sucks. But you can't preemptively kill someone because you have a hunch that they might come back and kill your family. What kind of a defense would that be?

"Well, you see your honor, he was stealing some of my money, so I shot him."
"Wasn't he leaving your house?"
"Yes, he was running away. But instead of calling the police, I decided to shoot him on the off chance that he might come back and kill my spouse."

So fking what! Pay for the mistake. We all make them, so we pay for them. You call driving drunk a mistake? It's not a mistake, it's a dangerous act that can possibly kill someone else who has done nothing but get into his car. Fk that! Yeah, if he kills someone he should fry. If he hurts someone, he should hurt, if he ruins the car, he should buy them a new car even if it has to come out of his check through garnishment.

You just don't get it do you?
Listen. It's MY house, MY fking property that I pay for, why the hell should anyone I don't fking know be there? Do they pay the bills there? No they don't. No, I wouldn't want to shoot a 16 year old kid or anyone else for that matter, but if it's dark and he's in MY house, he dies. I wouldn't care if the lights were on, I'm blowing him away, and should be justified in doing so. If I later find out he's 16, no I wouldn't feel guilty. Not at all. He shouldn't have been in my house on my property. I wouldn't shoot him for the fear of him coming back to kill my family, I would be protecting my family at the time the incident happened. I HAVE THAT RIGHT!!! I call total bullshit on your whole post. It's almost like your own their side. This is what I mean. The criminal is protected and given too many rights in this country. I'm all about an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth. Whatever you do to me, should be done right back to you. Have you ever seen the movie " An Eye for an Eye"? it was about this woman who's daughter got raped by some controlling sexually crazed prick. What pissed me off about the whole movie it this dick head is out running the streets after he raped and killed this woman's daughter. She basically had to go around the law or trick the law just to kill this guy. What should have happened is the cops should have found this guy and asked her what she wanted to do. It should be her chioce. Me personally, I would send him to prison, let him get raped there, and then let him out so I could put a bullet right through his head. The same thing he did to my daughter should be done back to him. What part of that are you not understanding? This country puts too much value on human life and they should, provided that person is humane.

I disagree with you 100%. No fking way.

And I'm a dude so I don't carry a purse.

[Kevin]

Zeph, the problem with DUI laws in this country is that most states make no distinction between someone who has literally had one too many and someone who is completely blitzed. I'm guessing that the individual who hit KSigKid was probably in the blitzed column, but there are a lot of folks who get DUIs who really are not much more dangerous than someone talking on their cell phone. People do make mistakes and DUI is just one sort of behavior which is dangerous. It is already punished disproportionately to other risky behavior, so what would you change? Would you put someone in the electric chair after the first offense?

And your burglar situation... you just changed the facts in a major way. If they are in your home, i.e., not running away, that's a much different situation than one where their backs are turned to you and they're fleeing.

As for the movie... let's stick to real life examples. Hollywood productions are probably not the best sorts of materials to rely on when you're shaping your views as to crime/punishment, dontchathink?

Finally, as for criminals having more rights than victims, that's just not true. I'm assuming you are a law abiding citizen who has had minimal contact with the criminal justice system. While my contact is indirect as of yet (I plan to go into criminal law, but I do work with many attorneys who do criminal cases), I can tell you that the system is definitely not stacked against victims. At least not in Oklahoma. We lock LOTS of people up.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

I'm saying to get rid of the insane too (if they hurt or kill someone) Basically whatever they do to someone else, do the same exact thing back to them. It's only fair man. It's only fair. That way the morons who try to use that as a cop out, fry too.

Back to your drunk driving incident. First off, I'm sorry to hear that happened to you and your wife, glad to see you're still here to talk about it. What baffles the hell out of me is why was that his 3rd DUI? See, this is what erks the fk out of me. It's shit like this that, that make the law all wrong. No, I can't change it, but I can voice an opinion on it, like I'm doing now. I just can't see what you don't get about that. I know you're in school for it, so you have to understand the law in order to enforce or defend it, but I would have a hard time enforcing something or defending something that I believe is wrong. Seriously dude, think about what you just said. This sick fuck hit you and your wife at over 70mph, and then on top of that it was his 3rd DUI. WTF!!!! How does that happen? Here's a story for ya. Today, I had to get a ticket waved. A few weeks ago the cops stopped me because my tail lights weren't working, so he said that I would get a ticket in the mail. He said it would be waved once I got the matter fixed. I fixed it that day and kept the receipt. I got the ticket in the mail a couple of days ago, and it said that I had to mail it in before 3-5-09. He said that I could have any cop sign off on it, so I took it to the cops in my city to have it done. Out of curiosity I asked the cop behind the counter what would happen if I forgot to mail it in. He said if it wasn't mailed in by the 5th there would be a warrant out for my arrest. Once he told me that, I decided to drive the signed off ticket to the court house rather than mailing it to make sure that it was waved. I had them make copies of everything for my records, and that cost me 2 bucks. Now, what kind of shit is that. There would be a warrant out for my arrest for a simple fix it ticket, but yet you and your wife get hit by a drunk driver who is out doing the shit again for the 3rd fking time. Then OJ Simpson gets off on murder charges (his own fking wife). Dude, that's bullshit! If it isn't then I don't what is. If I forgot to to have the ticket signed off on, fine me and then garnish my wages, but don't arrest me. I could see if I killed or hurt someone, or robbed a bank but a fix it ticket? Give me a break.


I didn't see it that way. I was mainly talking about after the fact or knowing without a doubt, that he committed the crime.


So fking what! Pay for the mistake. We all make them, so we pay for them. You call driving drunk a mistake? It's not a mistake, it's a dangerous act that can possibly kill someone else who has done nothing but get into his car. Fk that! Yeah, if he kills someone he should fry. If he hurts someone, he should hurt, if he ruins the car, he should buy them a new car even if it has to come out of his check through garnishment.

You just don't get it do you?
Listen. It's MY house, MY fking property that I pay for, why the hell should anyone I don't fking know be there? Do they pay the bills there? No they don't. No, I wouldn't want to shoot a 16 year old kid or anyone else for that matter, but if it's dark and he's in MY house, he dies. I wouldn't care if the lights were on, I'm blowing him away, and should be justified in doing so. If I later find out he's 16, no I wouldn't feel guilty. Not at all. He shouldn't have been in my house on my property. I wouldn't shoot him for the fear of him coming back to kill my family, I would be protecting my family at the time the incident happened. I HAVE THAT RIGHT!!! I call total bullshit on your whole post. It's almost like your own their side. This is what I mean. The criminal is protected and given too many rights in this country. I'm all about an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth. Whatever you do to me, should be done right back to you. Have you ever seen the movie " An Eye for an Eye"? it was about this woman who's daughter got raped by some controlling sexually crazed prick. What pissed me off about the whole movie it this dick head is out running the streets after he raped and killed this woman's daughter. She basically had to go around the law or trick the law just to kill this guy. What should have happened is the cops should have found this guy and asked her what she wanted to do. It should be her chioce. Me personally, I would send him to prison, let him get raped there, and then let him out so I could put a bullet right through his head. The same thing he did to my daughter should be done back to him. What part of that are you not understanding? This country puts too much value on human life and they should, provided that person is humane.

I disagree with you 100%. No fking way.

And I'm a dude so I don't carry a purse.

You're nuts.

[Thetagirl218]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Vigilante justice is a scary concept.

I agree that it is; however, one must consider the fact this kind of "justice" is not uncommon in Iran and other Islamic countries. The Islamic law "eye for an eye" is merely an echo of Hammaribi's code and other similar Persian laws that governed this region over 2,000 years ago.

This is also a part of the world that encourages honor killings of female rape victims...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Thetagirl218

This is also a part of the world that encourages honor killings of female rape victims...

I've heard about that with Sunnis, but not the Iranian/Persian Shia.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

I'm saying to get rid of the insane too (if they hurt or kill someone) Basically whatever they do to someone else, do the same exact thing back to them. It's only fair man. It's only fair. That way the morons who try to use that as a cop out, fry too.

Word. You guys probably remember that horrific Greyhound bus murder from last summer (if not, click here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Mclean)
That has not gone to trial yet, but I'm sure that the perp will not do any time at all, despite killing the victim in front of tonnes of people and pretty much gutting and decapitating him on the bus. His lawyers claim "Wendigo" psychosis. Oy.

And another trial wrapped at the end of 2008:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...ath-trial.html
Some dude stabbed his friend over 33 times death, got 5 years and "manslaughter".

Brutal.