Quixtar/Amway/cult businesses

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I am so glad to hear somebody say this - one of my fellow chapter alums is all into PartyLite and every time she comes back to the house she brings brochures and passes them around.

Another one of those people

That bugs the crap out of me! Why are people like that?

Of course some people in our region (which is what our area is called) tell their teams to solicit new customers at CHURCH ! I told my leader straight up that that wasn't for me - I do not go to church to sell PartyLite! The church secretary knows that I sell it, and she has bought a thing or two - ON HER OWN - as in she calls me. I just think that is sick to mix work and church like that.

A lady and her husband that we go to church with are involved in a company like Amway. Well, hubby and I had just joined the church before Eli came. A few weeks afterwards, my parents came to church with us, and were talking with another couple that we are friends with. Well this lady butts into the conversation and asks where we are going to lunch -- so she and her hubby came with us (mind you I had NO idea at the time what she did). She kept asking me if she could come visit me and see the baby -- I just thought she was being polite and wanted to get to know us. Next day she shows up with a "gift" -- yeah, her gift was some baby-cleaning crap that was supposed to get stains out of clothes (it didn't). She was so rude and kept asking how much money we made since I'm a stay-at-home-mom. I was royally pissed off. I tried to get rid of her by saying "well, thanks for dropping by, but I need to go nurse Eli now" -- she said "GO AHEAD - I don't mind" -- YES - she invited herself to stay there while I nursed (okay, granted I have no modesty, and I really don't care who is around while I nurse, but still - that's my decision to make - not hers!) -- finally I got rid of her when she held Eli and he pooped all over her - I have never laughed so hard.

Long story short - church is God & me time -- not solicit your fellow church members time!

[decadence]

A while back I was speaking to someone I hadn't spoken to for ages. Sweet girl, we chatted about what was happening with her etc. She explained she was involved in sales, a company beginning with M - I forget but it wasn't Amway but it was multi-level-marketing (although she didn't know that term). She brought up a book 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' and recommended it. She went on to say she'd left college to run this new business. A great shame. I ordered the book from Amazon, it's good at motivation and light on substance. It repeats things often and contradicts wildly. It recommends multi-level-marketing, one of the reasons that people involved in these schemes often bring it up. Turns out the author back when it was written couldn't get a publisher and it was either vanity published or there was a very small publishing run. An Amway distributor found it being sold at a car boot sale and liked it's supposed promises of wealth and started to distribute it through the network. The multi-level-marketing comments in it were probably added in at a later edition because of this.
At the end of reading it I knew I wanted to invest in real estate (:-D I know!!) although I knew zero about it I was "convinced". In the next few days I saw an ad in the newspaper about a seminar by an American guy named Russ Whitney who would tell how he made himself wealthy with little to no money down in investing in real estate. I went along, he of course wasn't there; the presenter and presentation gave me lots to be uncomfortable about. It was purely an exercise to sell their expensive system. Nobody was allowed to ask questions as these would be covered at the end, though common in presentations this is not normally because asking questions will expose the fact the presenter does not know the answer or expose the holes in the scheme or presentation. Needless to say, at the end it was finished with wording that gave the impression 'that was it' and there was no invitation for questions. There were screenshots of the subjects covered - just blurred enough so you couldn't see them etc. I wouldn't pay for any course without seeing a prospectus. MUCH repeating of key words. People want to be successful, such schemes play onto this with suggestions that not everyone can do it - verbiage about quitters/losers etc. It was just an exercise to sell a questionable 'system' with lots of vagueness. I was aware enough to see snake oil when someone was selling it. Before I left, I spoke briefly to one of the younger guys at the back (with the company), he recommended 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad'.
After I got back home, I looked up that real estate guru and found all about what an out and out con it was, and similar facts about the Amway and associated businesses and the tricks they all have in common.
It amused me I could have considered it for five minutes, thankfully I still have the sense I was born with.

Onto Amway...
It's mildy surprising that a new member hasn't joined GC to say they're interested in Amway and it's great (yadda yadda I'm a oge/shill and work for them etc!).
Amway has a massive failure and drop out rate but then there's one [more] born every minute!
The cult aspect and how it works are discussed at http://skepdic.com/amway.html
Another (good) site is the site of Dave Touretzky, a university professor at Carnegie Mellon University. http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/index.html

There're different shell companies etc such as Quixtar the online one, selling soap on the net. Fun! And, (as aephi alum mentioned) the practice of not mentioning the Amway name(s) when talking about it. This is all a product of the negative PR which the name Amway carries. There are reasons for that!
Amway and the real estate guru above and all the rest are *not* about products or a course to buy real estate. The people who make the serious money are the people running the motivational businesses. Anmway is all about the "scheme". They encourage you to buy so-called motivational or instructional books/pay-for-seminars etc. It costs up to thousands of dollars a year to remain in good standing with the Amway tool scams. (The books, tapes and rallies are collectively known as "tools".) The more people recruited the more people buy these. Pyramid selling.

Captivating motivational speakers have a powerful effect; and in such schemes they play onto people's desires for success and wealth with limited efforts. Those involved will have been briefed against objections and flaws in the 'business' by their 'uplines' (those they buy from) and at seminars. This is especially cultlike. Consequently many are trapped in it refusing to listen until they are left with no money and no friends. An Amway goal is keeping you away from "negative" friends and family. The 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' discusses negative talkers and how they doom themself to a life of debts but you can escape etc etc. An Amway favourite is to refer to them as 'dream stealers'. It stresses how you will be successful because you are involved in the scheme. The top seller Dexter Yager has a book "Don't Let Anyone Steal Your Dream". According to the Hart lawsuit against Amway and Yager (et al, 1997), Dexter Yager makes forty million dollars a year from the sale of "business support materials", (these seminars/materials) representing almost three quarters of his annual income. Something to remember the next time someone says "we don't make money unless you make money".

Amway is a pyramid scheme selling books tapes and other "system" tools to people who are not selling anything. The distributors use the products themselves - the toothpaste, toothbrush etc, then listen to Amvox voicemail to pick up their motivational messages, they go to seminars that last until 2am when they are esp. receptive aka inequipped to resist. It becomes a part of their life. The 1979 lawsuit stated it was a direct sales business as opposed to pyramid sales since products were involved. All that is really sold is the scheme.

Leaving an Amway business is difficult for some people as they have endured years of brainwashing telling them that only quitters and losers leave the business. Amway's leading distributor said " If your friends don't join, get new friends." It is often touted as a way to meet other people and develop new friendships. You'd find the "new friends" not so genuine once you left your Amway group. People contact every acquaintance they can think of, trying to recruit new distributors. They don't want to be losers. And if you lose you are negative or so the system tells you.

Danielle, I wish you luck with respect of your friend. There is no shortage of information on the 'net about Amway and their techniques... Hopefully she will not be committed to experiencing some of the problems that many out there have suffered.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by decadence
A while back I was speaking to someone I hadn't spoken to for ages. Sweet girl, we chatted about what was happening with her etc. She explained she was involved in sales, a company beginning with M - I forget but it wasn't Amway but it was multi-level-marketing (although she didn't know that term).

Was it Melaluca (or something like that)? A friend of mine is involved with that. They sell these supposedly all natural products. They do everything from vitamins to personal hygiene to home cleaning supplies. They do the whole "party" demonstration where you are supposed to so freaked out that you will get cancer because of your dish washer soap or your toothpaste that you will buy all of their stuff and run home and throw your things out. The kicker for me was when they require you to get on a "regular purchasing plan" as a member to get the so-called discounts. You were agreeing to order something like 35 points per month, when ended up being something like $50. IF you did not order your set amount a particular month they shipped you a gift certificant that you "could use anytime!!!" Yeah right....

I'll keep using my Tide and get cancer thank you very much

[decadence]

Was it Melaluca (or something like that)? A friend of mine is involved with that. They sell these supposedly all natural products. They do everything from vitamins to personal hygiene to home cleaning supplies.

Yup sounds fairly similar in products at least. I recall the one she was involved in was called mannatech. Their website seems to go for the all out 'blind people with science jargon' approach to selling their vitamins and lifestyle products. The consensus seems to be they are savvy enough not to make cure claims publicly but down the line, reps to prospects are a different story.

[33girl]

Originally posted by decadence
She brought up a book 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' and recommended it. She went on to say she'd left college to run this new business. A great shame. I ordered the book from Amazon, it's good at motivation and light on substance. It repeats things often and contradicts wildly. It recommends multi-level-marketing, one of the reasons that people involved in these schemes often bring it up. Turns out the author back when it was written couldn't get a publisher and it was either vanity published or there was a very small publishing run. An Amway distributor found it being sold at a car boot sale and liked it's supposed promises of wealth and started to distribute it through the network. The multi-level-marketing comments in it were probably added in at a later edition because of this.

Oh Lordy, one of the guys I work with was touting "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think that's part of why I am starting to hate my job - too many of my coworkers (mainly those with higher positions) are buying into this corporatespeak motivational bullshit and wondering why we all aren't. I'm not a negative person but this crap just raises my hackles.

And just to clarify a "car boot sale" means they were selling stuff out of the trunk of their car.

[decadence]

Originally posted by 33girl: Oh Lordy, one of the guys I work with was touting "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think that's part of why I am starting to hate my job - too many of my coworkers (mainly those with higher positions) are buying into this corporatespeak motivational bullshit and wondering why we all aren't. I'm not a negative person but this crap just raises my hackles.

And just to clarify a "car boot sale" means they were selling stuff out of the trunk of their car.

Lol 33girl! Oops I forgot to de-anglicise!
One of the sites on the net I came across while researching after my exposure to it gave a kickass stepbystep rundown on what drivel the book was and how it contradicts itself. If anyone feels esp. interested let me know and I'll try and find the site again.

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by 33girl
And just to clarify a "car boot sale" means they were selling stuff out of the trunk of their car.

I thought the closest Yank equivalent to 'car boot sale' was 'gar[b]age sale'

[decadence]

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU: I thought the closest Yank equivalent to 'car boot sale' was 'gar[b]age sale'

Probably. It's kinda like a garage sale but not held at a person's house. A school or hospital might hold one say to raise funds, charging people for a pitch (place for their car) where they'd all be in a car park/playground whatever. In rows, each person brings their 'stuff' and sells it - typically they'll put the items for sale on a table in front of the trunk of their parked car.

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by decadence
Probably. It's kinda like a garage sale but not held at a person's house. A school or hospital might hold one say to raise funds, charging people for a pitch (place for their car) where they'd all be in a car park/playground whatever. In rows, each person brings their 'stuff' and sells it - typically they'll put the items for sale on a table in front of the trunk of their parked car.

Ah... OK. sounds more like a combination flea market/rummage sale... many US zoning laws have some restriction or other regarding these type of sales.

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by decadence
A while back I was speaking to someone I hadn't spoken to for ages. Sweet girl, we chatted about what was happening with her etc. She explained she was involved in sales, a company beginning with M - I forget but it wasn't Amway but it was multi-level-marketing (although she didn't know that term). She brought up a book 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' and recommended it.

Damn, that was the same book the Amway people was tauting as their bible. I read it, it was a rpetty good read. But it was all common sense that most people would've picked up.

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
I had an "interview" with Primerica. Half way through the interview I coul tell they were shady right at the beginning of the interview. I was invited back to their "information" meeting. I didn't go.

I also had an interview with a "marketing company". The job was to go door to door and solicit donations for some "charity".

I put my resume up on Mosnter recently to see what i could catch and i got a call from a Primerica rep. I thought hmmm until i started doing research and heard some stories from ppl i know.........needless to say i never returned the call.

Also my brother and his wife was soooo heavily involved in Amway we all thought they were brainwashed until he woke up one day and got a clue. It was horrible , she ( my sister in law) would be in my house and look at the things i buy and say oooo you buy brand x you should be using this from Amway. I invited her to a Creative memories party once because heck i needed and wanted a new scrapbook to start a new album and more sales at my party the more i get....anyhow, she said no in a polite way because it would go against anything amway taught them or sold. They alienated family and friends with that crap. One of their longest dearest friedns was selling princess house and she did the same thing to her too. told her no and she would not buy anything that isnt backed by Amway. It drove us all NUTS. Though he finally woke up and realized how this pyramid scheme was controlling everything they did and family and friends being driven off by it all

[tinydancer]

My best friend's brother was briefly interested in Quixtar and I went to a presentation only as a favor to her. The man giving the presentation said something like "Well, if you always buy Pop-Tarts, you won't buy them from the store anymore, you will buy them from us." He said Pop-Tarts about a dozen times during the evening. It was like he couldn't think of any other examples of what people buy. I swear, it turned me against Pop-Tarts!

[kddani]

bumping this thread...

It's been nearly a year since I started this thread. In that time, I have barely spoken to the friend involved.

Ran into her the other night at the mall- she was on her way to a "business meeting"... and she's still as brainwashed as ever. Still thinks this "business" is going to make her into a millionaire. The topic of dating came up, she went on and on about how she's so busy with her business, and that she knows the man she ends up marrying will be someone from her business!!!!! It's not like she has her eye on someone on particular... it's more like marrying one of her own!

The business has done wonder for her self esteem- she's lost 80 pounds! but brainwashing isn't worth the extra self esteem. That seems how a lot of cults work.... feed someone's need to feel important....

Just sad that she's still under their thumb

[cash78mere]

Originally posted by kddani
bumping this thread...

It's been nearly a year since I started this thread. In that time, I have barely spoken to the friend involved.

Just sad that she's still under their thumb

kddani,

how is she doing financially right now? is she actually making money and making a good living? or is it "slow" right now and she's hoping it will eventually pick up so she can become a millionaire?

[kddani]

Originally posted by cash78mere
kddani,

how is she doing financially right now? is she actually making money and making a good living? or is it "slow" right now and she's hoping it will eventually pick up so she can become a millionaire?

I really don't know, I didn't want to ask. She's still living at home, instead of in her own place. She's still working a "normal" job... I remember last year how she was all saying oh, i'm just keeping my job for a few more months until I get my business off the ground.

Another sign it's gone too far... when talking about her weight loss, I said oh, are you also at the mall to pick up some new clothes, that must be so fun. Nope, she's only trying on clothes to see what size she is so she can order from her business...