"You'll end up where you were meant to"...

[ErikaXO]

I agree to a large extent WITHIN THE LIMITS OF MY OWN EXPERIENCE with the "ending up where you belong" thing. If anyone saw my post in the "Rush experts please reply" or whatever thread I do feel strongly that the chapters pretty much can tell who is going to fit in and who isn't. BUT.....

I think that in the South, it is just plain different. Sheer numbers make the difference. I would imagine that even the "weaker" houses tend to have girls who would be A-list anywhere else, just because there were too darn many of them. But what separates the cute little 4.0 cheerleader who made top tier from the cute little 4.0 cheerleader who didn't? That's where the difference comes in....that's where the sorority's "expertise" counts. Maybe there is a nuance in personality that just clicks better for one girl than the other.

As I mentioned in the other thread, we had a lot of girls at Kent who got stuck on one top-3 chapter when they really fit in better at a different one. Fortunately the chapters were strong enough that if a girl didn't get bid by her top choice, she generally took her bid and did very well at the other house, realizing that in personality/etc. she actually did fit better where she ended up. I think a lot of you saw my own rush story....I had a very hard time choosing between the 3 even til the end!!!!! I probably would have been equally happy anywhere.

But what of the girl who has decided that she is going to go to college and change her image? Maybe she was a really cute, nice, smart girl in HS but she just wasn't part of the in crowd. She has decided that she always deserved better and she's going to go to college and make everything different. Maybe she goes to a large school with a small top tier, a large pool of really great sororities that just don't have the "superstar" status of the elite few, and then a few "weaker" houses. She goes in with her mind set on one of the superstatus houses and gets cut from them all by the end of 2nd. She may be a perfect fit for several of the other chapters, GOOD chapters but not the megaselective ones. She says "ha, not for me" and drops out. This is a girl who has her priorities screwed up and who is not being realistic about herself. Let's face it....there are girls who go through rush thinking that they are going to join a house and it is going to make them popular, beautiful, and datable by the hottest richest guys. These are not the girls who belong where they think they do. If you go into rush for the purpose of getting an image overhaul, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. The girls who come in radiating a relaxed confidence are the ones who go top-ier almost every time.

I stand by what I said before, my line that got quoted again in this thread. But the difference is in recognizing if you really belong where you think you do or not. There are girls out there who are never ever going to get into one of the "best" houses and if they come in expecting to, they are going to be disappointed. On the other hand, there are girls who SHOULD expect it, and those are the ones who are the really tragic cases at places like the SEC schools.

Cutiepie, your post brought tears to my eyes. I know I would have felt the same way you did. I am so glad you eventually found your way into the chapter you loved....I am only sorry that you missed out on the collegiate part.

[ErikaXO]

Hard to believe I could have left anything out of that book I wrote above....but I forgot to mention one thing....I think that the stringent rules of panhel rush cause part of the problem especially at the big Southern schools. If the girls were allowed to talk to the members, and there wasn't so much hands-off attitude, maybe the chapters would have more of a chance to see the girls for real and make a more educated choice before the mass executions....I can only fault the chapters so much though. They are given such a short period of time to try and evaluate these huge numbers of girls, girls who are going to be a part of the sisterhood that means so much to them. They aren't allowed to talk to the girls on campus, they aren't even allowed to talk ABOUT them. They have to be choosy!!! The system just doesn't seem to be entirely effective.

[AchtungBaby80]

I go to U of K which is an SEC school, and I'm here to tell you it's heinous. I've been through rush as both rushee and rusher, and it's no better in either position. This past fall we had around 600 going through rush, I believe, and it's so so so hard to keep anyone straight much less figure out who would be best for my sorority. I still feel sorry for the poor rushees, though (pardon my un-PC terms, but I think the new ones are ridiculous). Even if I love a certain girl to death, she might not get to be my sister because I myself do not have a say in who gets invited back--that's all up to the "invitation committee", made up of four or five of our members. The other hundred girls in my chapter don't have a say, either, so I think a lot depends on sheer luck.

And whoever tells you that recs don't matter at big schools like this is plain nuts! On the registration forms for rush, PNMs are specifically instructed that it is not their job to obtain recs, because if they are required it is the sorority's responsibility to get them. (Heh?!?!?) So, being very green at this whole rush thing, I didn't have any recs sent in--although I would have had one for three or four different groups, and I wonder now if things would have turned out a lot different. I don't really regret pledging my sorority because I picked a good one (although the dynamics are changing fast, but that's another story), but I do wonder about it. So the moral of the story is, rush is NOT a good way to find out where each girl "belongs," but I can't complain too much because I don't have a good alternative idea. But I still stand by what I said before...that "you'll end up where you belong" is a bunch of baloney.

[AchtungBaby80]

Oh, I forgot something. There are many, many girls who get into the "elite" chapters (here, at least) just to say they belong. It happens quite a bit. I personally know several members of the largest sororities on campus who do not go to meetings, who do not participate in Greek events, etc., but they all carry their little lettered tote bags around. Most of the chapter houses here are the same size, and we always wondered how in the heck the sororities with over 150 members managed to fit in their chapter room when we outgrew ours around the 90-member mark...but we found out it's because a significant number of their members don't attend meetings. Someone made the point earlier that rush is supposed to weed these girls out but it doesn't--well, whoever said that, you're right!

[LexiKD]

Although I didn't attend a huge southern school, I have worked with many women that have and have many friends that went through at huge schools and although I cannot relate quantity wise I have some Panhellenic opinons.

Since I worked with PH for the 4 years I was at school and never saw Recruitment from the chapter side until last year as an alumnae I feel that no matter what you are looking for and no matter where you end up that it wouldn't make that big of a difference.

I love KD and know it is the group for me, but I would think I would be as happy in another group beacuse I would have made the best out of it as I have currently. Some PNMs have no idea what sorority life is really about and no matter what chapter you join all NPC groups have great experiences that she will enjoy and get the most out of.

I bet if you lined all PNMs up and split them into groups and assigned a chapter they would all be as happy as if they had gone through the process. At such large schools I cannot imagine how you wouldn't get lost in the choas. I am impressed by the manner the chapter women have it down to a science, something I would not be good at!

[SigKapSweetie]

I rushed at UF (SEC school), and I ended up just where I was meant to.
My chapter is the smallest on campus; I guess that would give it a 'weak' reputation according to this thread. During round 3, I cut two of the largest chapters on campus, and cut two more during prefs, all in favor of my 'weak' chapter. Rushees need to realize that the 'strength' of a chapter might not have anything to do with whether they belong there. My chapter was the only one where I felt like I could be myself and not be fake 24/7 to get the other girls to accept me. I realize some chapters do simply have 'weak' reputations, and that discourages some rushees from looking at those houses, but if they can see past it, sometimes it's the smaller houses they're really meant to be in.

[GammaPhiBabe]

I went to an SEC school. I had good recs and a long list of high school activities including winning beauty pageants and lots of volunteer work. I had a good GPA. I'm not saying that I was hot stuff or anything, but I just wanted to let you know where I'm coming from.
I ended up in a "weak" house. Gamma Phi Beta is not that strong in the Southeast. People used to ask me what sorority I was in and when I told them they would say, "You don't LOOK like a Gamma Phi Beta." or "You're kidding, right?"
The thing is, I felt at home there. The sisterhood there was real and the girls didn't make me feel like I was being judged on my looks or my car or "what my daddy does for a living," like many of the other houses did. I could have gone to a bigger house, but I don't think I would have been as happy or as involved.
At first, I was disappointed when I realized that I would have to work hard to overcome the "reputation" of my sorority, but I've come to realize that, while I was never going to be homecoming queen, I was given a world of opportunites that I would never have gotten if I had chosen one of the "stronger" houses. I think that I am a good example of ending up "where I belong."
I know that not everyone has a good rush experience and not everyone is willing to "settle" for a "weak" house. But I think that if they truly give it a chance, maybe they'll see that they DID end up where they belonged after all. And, as for the girls who fall through the cracks, most of them are picked up by COB or Snap-Bidding... I think that if you truly want to be part of a sorority, you can be. Even in the SEC. You just have to have an open mind.

[GreenEyedLady]

I don't understand why being in a smaller house would effect your chances to be homecoming queen. Am I dense? I guess I don't get the whole southern school thing.

Originally posted by GammaPhiBabe
but I've come to realize that, while I was never going to be homecoming queen, I was given a world of opportunites that I would never have gotten if I had chosen one of the "stronger" houses. I think that I am a good example of ending up "where I belong."

[amycat412]

Originally posted by GreenEyedLady
I don't understand why being in a smaller house would effect your chances to be homecoming queen. Am I dense? I guess I don't get the whole southern school thing.

Perception.

If weaker house has a perception as, let's say "the fat chicks" even though this is not true, or should not matter-- well, you can rest assured anyone from this house, no matter how qualified, will not be Homecoming Queen.

[KillarneyRose]

I've read in some posts that at some of the more competitive rush schools, the PNMs come into rush already having visited the campus and making a point of getting to know sorority members. Do you all think this is a bad thing?

As I mentioned in a long ago thread where I detailed my rush experience, I grew up very close to where I went to college and I knew ever since I started high school that I wanted to go there and the I wanted to join a sorority. ErikaXO, correct me if I'm wrong but you were in a similar situation when you started college, right? So to that end, I tailored my resume not only so that I would look good to the college admissions people but to the sororities as well. Also, I went to parties at the school my junior and senior years of high school so that I could become friendly with the Greeks and learn my way around the system a bit (disregard the fact that a 16/17 year old has NO BUSINESS at a fraternity party, ok? It's alright that I did it, but if either of my daughters attempts such a stunt they will be grounded until they're 30 )

I feel that I started rush with a big advantage over most of the other PNM's; I was friendly with many sisters, I knew what the different houses were like in "real life" as opposed to the image they presented during rush and I knew enough about which sisters were involved in what non-Greek activities that I could ask what I felt to be intelligent questions. I didn't feel that I needed a two week rush period to learn where I belonged because I'd done a couple years of independant research.

So I guess what I'd like to know is does everyone think the advantage I gave myself was unfair to the other rushees or do you feel that "all's fair" in love and....um, rush?

And, regarding the Homecoming Queen question...
Remember, if a Homecoming Queen candidate is a member of a larger house, she has more people to campaign for her and, obviously, more people to vote for her!

[GammaPhiBabe]

Regarding the homecoming queen question.... I'll just say that my school was very political, as are most Southern schools, especially the big SEC campuses.

[shadokat]

GammaPhi and SigKap, both of you made excellent points! It just goes to show that women can be happy without the reputation. It's just a shame that more women don't go through recruitment with the attitudes you ladies had.

One of our chapters is at an SEC school and is THE weak sorority on campus. But they only had 12 girls last year. Now they are over 30. That's huge for them, and the reason why? Because in a recruitment of hundreds of girls, they only got 2! I talked to one of these women a few days ago, and asked her "are you happy with your sorority experience thus far?" Her answer was awesome...she said "I may not be in XYZ or ABC, but I'm where I belong. I had the opportunity to join a big sorority, but I didn't feel I would have as much of a sorority experience as I do with my chapter. We're going to make it out of this trouble and onto huge things...that's all I have to say!"

She made me cry I know, I'm a dork!

[ZetaLuvBunny]

Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
Oh, I forgot something. There are many, many girls who get into the "elite" chapters (here, at least) just to say they belong. It happens quite a bit. I personally know several members of the largest sororities on campus who do not go to meetings, who do not participate in Greek events, etc., but they all carry their little lettered tote bags around. Most of the chapter houses here are the same size, and we always wondered how in the heck the sororities with over 150 members managed to fit in their chapter room when we outgrew ours around the 90-member mark...but we found out it's because a significant number of their members don't attend meetings. Someone made the point earlier that rush is supposed to weed these girls out but it doesn't--well, whoever said that, you're right!

I like to refer to those people who are only in it for the letters as "letter pimps". LOL In other words, they like to show off, or "pimp" their letters to say "look at me, I'm in a sorority, I'm cool". Seriously, that is just as bad as someone wanting to go to Harvard or Yale just to wear their shirts to get attention. It irritates me to no end when people do not participate enough! ESPECIALLY when a few people don't show up for meetings. I have NEVER missed a meeting, and I never will unless I am in the hospital! If there is ANYTHING Zeta-related going on, I am always there unless I have a class or am really really sick (ex: I had mono last semester so I still went to meetings but had to miss watching some of the sporting events). Is it a crime to be overly spirited about your sorority? If so, I'm as good as arrested!

In regards to the Homecoming Queen thing, I'll reitirate (and attempt to clarify) what some others have said: A girl is more likely to be elected if she is in a "stronger" house, because
1) there will be more people behind her, with more enthusiasm to spread the word about why she should be elected through means of posters, banners, word-of-mouth, etc.
2) the more recognizable an organization (sorority) is to the student population, the more likely they are to vote for her even if they don't know her, simply because they have heard of the sorority, or because the sorority has a good reputation.

This is in NO WAY saying that someone from a "weaker" sorority or even someone who is NOT affiliated with a sorority cannot become Homecoming Queen, but it is still less likely, especially in the South. A similar concept goes for highschools, where a girl is more likely to win Homecoming/Prom Queen if she's in a more recognizable group/club such as cheerleading, athletics, honors societies, etc.

Ah...if only life were less complicated sometimes.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

My school eliminated HC queen, and now has 10 women and 10 men on court. They are selected based on application and personal interview reviewed by members of the faculty and alumni. I think this is a much better system. Although they are mostly Greeks, I see women from every chapter, including NPHC and locals.

[ZetaLuvBunny]

At my school Homecoming consists of a court as well, and the ladies running must have a high gpa, lots of community service involvement, etc, but students still vote. Our Homecoming Queen this year was a member of the NPHC organization Zeta Phi Beta, and our Homecoming King was the President of Phi Beta Sigma (I think that was the org. he was in, but I can't remember for sure). One of my sisters ran for HQ, but I think it wasn't advertised well enough...needless to say, she didn't win. Involvement in Greek Organizations as well as "advertising" really do play the biggest roles in those elections. Everywhere I went practically there was a paper or picture of the girl who ended up winning, and her sisters & friends were everywhere on campus promoting her---she had some awesome public relations going on.