The Old Greek System vs. The New Greek System

[ThetaxiUW]

Rules are Rules and laws are laws. A rule is a thing created by an organization that constricts things that we should (by our laws) have a right to do. I think these things that we are doing to our chapters are rules that are not needed. I agree we should deal with things on a chapter by chapter basis. Certain areas and chapters have certain problems. Why not deal with them by themselves as having national rules set to fix the problem which in turn hurt other chapters that havn't had any problems with the issue. For the most part I think this is how things are dealt with.

Getting back to the main issue though. Why do so many people think the old system was better. A lack of brotherhood/sisterhood. Believe it or not a lot of problems stem from too many rules. My house feels like a place where people live. Not a huge amount of brotherhood. Why? I have more rights if I live out of the house than if I live in. Not to sound dramatic, but our nation was formed on a platform of freedom which has been burrowed into our head for our whole lives. To give up rights to live in a place where we lose certain rights just to be able to be part of a organization which promotes brotherhood or sisterhood seems kinda ludicrious.

What I am saying is that there are problems. When you ask people straight out would you live in a 1970 house or a house today and they say the 1970, there is obviously something wrong. How do you fix it though? I'm not an alumni. I'm not a powerful person nationally. The main point was to get people(alumni) to think about what they are doing to their chapter by passing a bunch of rules.

Nothings perfect don't try to make it that way.

Thats just my two sense

[LexiKD]

33: Yes I think we are all allowed to have our own opinons. But I think if you take the responsibility to advise a chapter of your organization it does no good for that chapter or organization to voice your issues with the college members. You see, as advisors we should be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and sometimes that light may be a little off of what you deem 100% correct, but as a card caring member of that organization you must support the rules and regualtions and teach the members you chose to advise to do the same. I am not say thing that if you disagree then just live with it, but if you have a legitimate concern bring it up to someone who can start change not a college member who has to follow the rules...and cannot do much about it form their position...does that make sense?

Jay: I do see your point about the 1970 house or now...BUT, don't you think we need to put blame on society and how today we can be sued for just about anything and lose a chapter...I think many of the rules steam from accidents where instead of looking at personal responsiblity it has gone to, your chapter made my son drink to death, or fall to his death and so on...you never hear well, no one forced it, he did chose to do it the victim is never at fault.....
On the freedom standpoint, well as I have been known to say before, you can do anything you want, but you cannot be Greek and do anything you want. You chose to be a represenative of your organization and when there is more than just you, one person at stake you really have to see the big picture and it isn't about how this makes you feel it is about moving with the times and keeping us all safe and our organiztions running into the future. How many more chapter closings(usually b/c of hazing or drinking violations) will we have to see until our members realize that we have to change the way we do things in order to stay around?

There is a point in your life that you have to see that times change and that means you too.You couldn't work for a big company and not follow some rules just b/c you didn't like them...that would get you fired...same thing, we need to respect what is happening and move on, it may mean more work and more time thinkng of creative things to end up with the same results, but isn't that why we all joined GLOs? If I wanted to do whatever I would have stayed independent...To me peolpe who join to get recpect need to earn it, and by showing the rest of the world we cannot even follow our own rules or the law for that matter, what are we showing the world?

[ThetaxiUW]

Understood. Lets look at it this way. Just because a house doesn't drink or haze doesn't mean that their charter will be taken. I have seen instances where our house was in jeopardy for other things beyond those two things. We recently went to a Risk Managment speaker (forgot his name, but was a judge) and he spoke about those things. They don't apply to us. Not in the least. We don't drink at all. We don't haze at all. There is still risk managment. Just other things. To treat a chapter like other chapters is not smart. We have problems, but not like any other chapter I've seen. A broader range of "Risk Managment Issues need to be realized in order to make our organizations safer. Why though? There will always be stupid decisions made by smart people. I just hate to see people blame things on organizations than take matters up with "the victim". Really the main argument is the scope needs to be broader if you are going to crack down on things

[LexiKD]

The scope needs to be broader...I agree with that Jay!

Now how do you think we deal with that? You mean more case by case issues? How would that work if some chapters don't have to play by all the rules? Do you mean special permission and such?

[shadokat]

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Smoked some weed
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 15 per semester (Thursday nights!)
4: Average number of members at chapter? 35
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 10
6: Number of times you drank in your house? Too many to count, but it's an unofficial house
7: Rush Class size (average)? 100-150 then; this semester, it was 50
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? a lot
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? ummm...10
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? ummm...5
11: Year of undergrad membership? pledged 1993
12: Hazed? (be honest) Nope
13. Funny thing is that the old system still exists in many ways on the campus I attend. Fraternities still have huge house parties and mixers at their houses. Even some sororities have parties, because none of the houses are official. Hazing is pretty much the norm, although our chapter didn't and were criticized for it. If I had to choose, I'd like the fun of my system, without all the hazing of the other groups.

[33girl]

Originally posted by LexiKD
33: Yes I think we are all allowed to have our own opinons. But I think if you take the responsibility to advise a chapter of your organization it does no good for that chapter or organization to voice your issues with the college members. You see, as advisors we should be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and sometimes that light may be a little off of what you deem 100% correct, but as a card caring member of that organization you must support the rules and regualtions and teach the members you chose to advise to do the same. I am not say thing that if you disagree then just live with it, but if you have a legitimate concern bring it up to someone who can start change not a college member who has to follow the rules...and cannot do much about it form their position...does that make sense?

If I'm an advisor and a collegian says to me that they think (example) our everyone has to live in house policy sucks, I'm not going to say "well, that is the national policy, follow it and deal." I'm going to say "tell me your concerns, what effect it could have on the group overall, we have to follow it for now but we can try to change it." What good would I be as an advisor if I didn't try to help sisters grow as independent women and teach them to speak their minds? What good would I be if I swallowed any of my objections and sat there saying things I don't believe?

I'm very sorry if you believe that collegians "can't do much from their position" - that's not something any member of a Greek group should feel. Maybe the national officers and volunteers run the sorority, but the collegians are the ones maintaining, growing and financing it. If college chapters really hate something, and band together, the officers of the org have no choice but to listen. Most real change - the kind that actually changes cultures and lifestyles - starts at the bottom, not the top.

[LexiKD]

33: They post was about an advisor out right saying that he didn't agree with the regluations. I am not saying that as advisors we need to say put up or shut up. What I am saying is that as advisors we need to show the regulations in a positive light in order for them to be followed and even followed with actually understanding. It would be close to impossible to think that all regualtions please 160,000+ members, but that doesn't mean that every little thing we dislike needs to be changed.

College members can complain all they wish, but on a national level the seasoned members that have been in college, been working with colleges, and have a grasp on the entire big picture are the officers that will be taken more seriously and in fact are the ones who initiate the regualtions. That in no way puts down college members, but even in a job situation, who would I take more seriously, an employee who has been with the company for years or an employee that is newer? Yes if a chapter dislikes something they can speak and be heard, that's why we have conventions and national leadership conferences...but we vote on it all and we, the voting delegates have a lot of power within our organization, but the regualtions on hazing/drinking/open parties are not organization regualtions they are NPC or US Law, nothing we can do an indiviuals will change that, we elect representatives to vote in NPC and they do what is best...

Again, me and 33 agree to disagree...good times 33!

[AOX81]

Here we go again....round and round

[RubberSoul]

I guess what cheeses me off about all these rules is that it is basically a mass punishment for the sins of the few and stupid. And it really doesn't have nearly as much to do with the welfare of our little college babies as the chapters would have you think. It comes down to one issue......MONEY. Insurance rates were soaring due to liability issues, and more and more in our suit-happy society sororities who never would have been named before are getting the finger pointed at them over something some guy did. Not to lay the blame on the guys, but that's the way it is.

In my entire time at school there were never any major problems or issues. Nobody got sued and nobody got killed. The greek system was much more bonded.....nowadays, since parties have to take place at the "annexes" (individual apartments and houses of members) there is a lot less room and therefore things have gotten much more exclusive. (Personally I believe this sets up even more potentially dangerous situations than the big, well-publicized house parties, but that's just me.) You don't see big group gatherings anymore where all of the sororities are represented....

Obviously stricter alcohol policies are not going to damage sisterhood and brotherhood within the chapter. But I think a lot of the things that used to encourage attendance and participation have been altered to the point where people just couldn't be bothered anymore (though a lot of this is due to the obnoxious overprogramming) and that does damage chapter morale. And I also think that the universal brother/sisterhood within the greek system as a whole has been chipped at by the new ways. It's funny......most of the responses I am seeing pretty much show a preference for whatever system you experienced.....old-schoolers prefer the old ways, newbies don't know any other way so they don't think they are missing anything and like their ways. It is kind of like the no-frills rush thread that we had.....those of us who saw the old ways know how cool (albeit expensive) it was, while the current actives couldn't imagine going through all the cost and hassle.

[RubberSoul]

By the way, I do take exception to the subtle insinuation that I am somehow not doing my job as an advisor by disagreeing with some of the new ways. Plain and simple; I think that things were much better back when. This doesn't mean that I am not holding my girls to the rules that are in place, this doesn't mean that I sit around telling them about the old days and how much better it was......I take excellent care of my girls and their welfare is of the utmost importance to me. I am actually known as one of the more hardcore advisors in terms of taking issues seriously and making sure that the rules are followed.

Sometimes girls I am particularly close to in the chapter will ask me how things were done in my time, or how things were. I answer very honestly....I also don't always keep my opinion to myself about things.....but the girls know that I expect them to handle the policies they live under and follow them.

Me calling up nationals and telling them I disagree with the way things are isn't going to change anything. If the girls hear about how things used to be and decide among themselves to ask for reimplementation of old rules, that's their option and they probably would have more luck. A lot of these changes had to be voted on by chapters.....they are the ones who have to live with them.

I'm not trying to attack anyone here.....I just want it crystal clear that though I prefer the way things used to be doesn't mean that I'm not taking my responsibility seriously.

[33girl]

RubberSoul, have I told you today that you rock??

Then again, with that user name, how could you not!

[KappaTarzan]

1: yes
2: no
3: 14
4: 25
5: 9
6: we don't have a house
7: 3-6
8: sorority related- 15-20
9: 10
10: 20
11: 2002?
12: no

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully?
of course

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college?
nope: Alchohol is my only drug of choice

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)?
I loose count. We're really social

4: Average number of members at chapter?
our college is only 4% greek, so we have like 20 members avg.

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?
Only been a member a year... we have a new "colony" forming

6: Number of times you drank in your house?
never

7: Rush Class size (average)?
4

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week?
anywheres from 4 to 20

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week?
3

10: Hours spent on the computer a week?
too many (I'm a computer Science major)

11: Year of undergrad membership?
2001

12: Hazed? (be honest)
No. Overall I think Hazing is retarded but I firmly believe there are people who deserve to be hazed.

[AOX81]

Originally posted by 33girl
RubberSoul, have I told you today that you rock??

I'll second that!!

[LexiKD]

Actually, Annexes(apartments and houses of members) many NPC insurance polices do not allow a use of a location that doesn't have laibility insurance or a third party vendor. Any co-sponsored event where drinking is invovled there has to be some sort of 3rd party, execpt a BYOB, then many of us have to have a real bartender and use the ticket system.(tailgating...)

And before anyone says that these are only KD regualtions needs to read their own policy. I was PH VP during the resolutions first year and had copies of most group's policies in order to combat that exact argument. We all have similiar insurance which only covers us in certain situations and we are all a lot similiar then anyone may think. FIPG groups have even more perticulars, like the insurance from each 3rd party vendor must be a certain dollar amount of coverage, security....and more, any AOPi/ZTA in the room and can help?

Again, we can all agree to disagree but the fact is, at least for the party regualtions and NPC resolution were all initiated in order to support the men's groups that were going dry. And yes many insurance issues as well, but just b/c some of us are old enough to remember the good old days and could party at a Fraternity house doesn't mean just b/c nothing ever happend that we all were safe...I can recall many times that it could have gotten out of hand and with groups with so many chapters I don't think case by case would be the way to go.

In a few years when we all get used to all the regualtions no one will think twice about it.