balanced man vs traditional

[Mikej11]

I pledged a Traditional (non-balanced man) chapter. My pledge ship was inspiring to me. I was asked to do things that maybe I would normally not do, but did these things out of respect towards the active class and the alumni that were there before me. I was never asked to do anything gross or anything that was physically imposable. All the activities that my pledge brothers and I did were very important to our growth together as fraternity brothers and as friends. Since then my chapter is trying to make strides in trying to instill the same motivation and heart in our new members that has been passed down. We have realized that most of the stuff that was done in the past was stupid. We have adopted a new program for our pledges. This program is still new to us and still has a lot of bugs in it.

As far a tradition that my chapter will always uphold is having the biggest and best house on campus. My chapter had the first house on campus in 1952 and just broke ground our new house April 19th, 2003. We are now building our chapter membership and working to become one of the top three fraternities on campus. We are also starting to build our own traditions that will be carried on for the ages. We have also adopted many BMP ideas and have been very successful with those endeavourers.

I will add more in time.

Fraternally,
Michael J

[JoshuaALB]

I am very sorry to all who have to go through a BM program. You are missing out on one of the greatest experiences of your life. Traditional is quite better. The time you spend with your pledge class through all the rough times pulls you together like nothing else. It is a bonding time that promotes brotherhood through good times and bad. Im am sorry I have also seen BM at work and it is an easy way to gain you letters. I think it is a cop out and it was implimented by nationals to save face with the anti greek atmosphere in the early 90s. I am from one of the most traditional Greek systems in the country where the system is involved with everything on campus. We have scholarship programs, fund raisers, and we are active in student Government, not to mention Alumni Associations and honor Societies. We are also a Division 1 school in the SEC so we are not talkin about some small country college and Traditional works if you do it right. And yes to you hard core they are traditional so they must haze individuals, we do haze quite a bit actually and we are also a 100 man house which is quite large here. Hazing if done constructivly instills resopect for not just older brothers, but the house and traditions of SigEp and I think it is a shame that nationals wants to take that out.

[BradF]

Hey Mikey J, don't I know you?

Anyhow, the long disputed BMP vs. Traditional argument always seems to weasel its way into conversation among brothers at our chapter.

Here is my take on BMP. BMP is a marketing strategy. It brings in members which bring in money. Money keeps SigEp alive. It also acts as a method of retention for those chapters that have a hard time motivating new members. New members get a small taste of the ritual in BMP, where in a traditional chapter you don't.

Plain and simple. BMP focuses more on numbers, while traditional focuses more on brotherhood. You can argue that BMP brings brothers together through sound mind, sound body all day long, but what about pledgeship?

I see a large difference in chapters that are BMP vs traditional. I for one am very proud to be a traditional SigEp. Sure we did some crazy things, but we laugh about them now.

One last things I'd like to say before I go to bed is that what do you do with members that get 1/2 way through the BMP and quit? Well they do know 1/2 the ritual if they made it 1/2 way through. I guarantee you the 12 origional founding fathers would roll over in their grave if they knew how our ritual was being tossed around. This is a very good example of the donkey/carrot on a stick.

We are all brothers, and I love SigEp. I just prefer the traditional way of running things. Don't be scared of me because I'm traditional.

[SigEp_fo_life]

Hey Fergy!!

I agree with Brad......I do think the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew some of the things that HQ is doing to our fraternity. Changing ritual, changing insignia, changing the way things have been done for a hundred years. Headquarters saw a problem with the fraternity before BMP was formed and they figured that it was because of pledging. They didnt stop to think that maybe it was individual chapters bringing the whole system down. So they just cut us off like a bad limb and put on a new one....BMP....Problem sovled. I agree 100% with everything that Brad and Mike had to say. Anyways, I'm so proud that I went through as a pledge and was initiated 100% as a brother. I know all of the ritual.....I've made the strongest bonds of my life and I'll never forget my "traditional" memories. Its sad to see the ways of the greatest fraternity change like they have. Its also sad that the fraternity has been split in two by this...and that HQ has pretty much dissowned traditional chapters..This isn't what Carter Ashton Jenkins wanted at all.....In my eyes I see Sigma Phi Epsilon the fraternity and SigEp the business. HQ wants to make money....that's all. They send salesmen to our chapters asking us to become BMP for God sake. I'm a traditional SigEp and damn proud. Dont hate what you dont understand BMP. Its not fair....and another thing...just cause we're trad. doesnt mean we haze!!!! I've also seen that most traditional chapters kick ass o their campuses. I dont want to see this fraternity loose its roots and traditions over money......that would be a really really sad day for SigEp.

[SteveHofstetter]

For those of you who are posting, are you on your exec boards? Run your recruitments? Chair your Greek Week? Attend Carlsons? Ruck? Applied to Quest to Greece? Thinking of joining a national committee? Because it seems to me that you're awfully good at talking about what you perceive to be wrong, so you should do something about it. I'm curious as to whether or not you've tried to change it, or you just like talking about it. The thing that most people seem to forget is that Headquarters does not run SigEp. SigEps run Headquarters.

And if you have an issue with how something is run, is it more effective to point out shortcomings or to run it yourself?

The only man that keeps you down is you.

[SigEp_fo_life]

Correction.....BMP SigEps run HQ......Oh and also, I am on the exec board at my chapter....I'm the head of it. We also go to all the headquarters activities such as Carlson and Ruck. We're up for a few awards as well. The fact is traditional chapters fall on deaf ears....Hq would like to see us all gone....all BMP chapters.....so thats why we have complaints....not because we haven't tried to voice them otherwise.

[BradF]

Originally posted by SteveHofstetter
For those of you who are posting, are you on your exec boards? Run your recruitments? Chair your Greek Week? Attend Carlsons? Ruck? Applied to Quest to Greece? Thinking of joining a national committee? Because it seems to me that you're awfully good at talking about what you perceive to be wrong, so you should do something about it. I'm curious as to whether or not you've tried to change it, or you just like talking about it. The thing that most people seem to forget is that Headquarters does not run SigEp. SigEps run Headquarters.

And if you have an issue with how something is run, is it more effective to point out shortcomings or to run it yourself?

The only man that keeps you down is you.

Yes, I just served as VP Programming for our chapter. I also attended Conclave in San Antonio this last time. I applied for the Hicks scholarship for most improved GPA, and I am registering for CLA.

Headquarters does not run SigEp? Are you serious? Why do we have RD's that come visit each chapter, and report back to HQ on how we are doing? Why do we have chapters like Texas Upsilon (SMU) that get cleaned out by nationals of their traditional values and changed over to BMP? Is that not nationals running SigEp?

If you have an issue with something, it is good to discuss it with your brothers, and get ideas from everyone. In a traditional system, you rely on your brothers for support, and not focus on just the individual. You must be a product of BMP, or strongly support it or else you would know that our discussion is one of concern.

The only man that keeps me down is me? Thank you for the quote for the day, but I feel just fine about being a traditional SigEp. I don't quite have the time to confront nationals, rally a support group, and change the way the fraternity runs its business. I have school to attend you know. I also serve on the community service chair of the fraternity, and I like to focus my time on those in need.

Good day Steve.

[SteveHofstetter]

I was just trying to make sure that impassioned speech was accompanied by impassioned action. If you are that upset with HQ, why not call them and voice your concerns? And if you think they wont listen, bear in mind that there is a larger ratio of pledging/traditional chapters represented at HQ than in the rest of the country.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that if you are so sure you're right, do something about it.

[BradF]

Originally posted by SteveHofstetter
I was just trying to make sure that impassioned speech was accompanied by impassioned action. If you are that upset with HQ, why not call them and voice your concerns? And if you think they wont listen, bear in mind that there is a larger ratio of pledging/traditional chapters represented at HQ than in the rest of the country.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that if you are so sure you're right, do something about it.

We still have our traditional chapter so I am not that worried.

The day that Texas Beta becomes a full BMP chapter will be the day I take action.

Like I said, I could rally up some troops and use conventional warfare, but we would loose many lives, and it would take awhile. I'd rather discuss it over a forum and get on with my life. The world won't cease to turn if SigEp goes completley BMP.

One last thing I was thinking about was our ritual guides. If you say nationals is not in charge of the fraternity then how come our ritual guides have been polluted with BMP "rites of passage" and BMP principles?

[SteveHofstetter]

Brad - you're post is not the kind I have a problem with. What I have a problem with is the guys that go on a tirade about how HQ is ruining their lives, yada yada yada, but don't do anything to stop it. I think anything worth complaining about is worth fixing. As for when to take action, if you're that against the BMP, wouldn't waiting for your chapter to change be too late?

I don't think the guides have been "poluted" with BMP - they've just been mixed to refelect the current state of the fraternity. More than 2/3 of the chapters are BMP - so it makes sense to have the literature reflect that. Of course HQ runs the fraternity. But my point is that the fraternity runs HQ.

Regardless of the undergrads ability to vote at conclave, I'm talking about day to day. Craig and Zar and Ryan and John all of those guys are first and foremost SigEps, and always will be. It's not like you turn into a PikA or a TKE when you graduate.

[BradF]

I understand what you are saying. Polluted may be a little harsh.

The BMP is a great program. Traditional ways of running the fraternity are also great. I believe the tension lies in the way that the fraternity was gone about instilling the BMP into our chapters. When we go to conclave, we snicker at the BMP chapters. Why? Because we are proud to be traditional.

As you can see, this creates an internal means of competition. Sure we are all SigEps, but some are traditional, and some are BMP.

For those chapters that were struggling, BMP was a God sent present. For those chapters such as ours, we really don't need the BMP to be successful. Will this hurt our chances at getting a BUC cup? Therein lies the question. Politics get involved in traditional vs BMP and gues who wins?

So there you have it. If you read some posts on this forum, you will see that the stereotype is that traditional chapters haze to motivate. Sure, everyone hazes. If you tell your new members to wear a red shirt on Monday, that is hazing. The definition of hazing is not just physical abuse. The stereotype of hazing gives traditional chapters a bad wrap. So, nationals comes up with this great plan to reduce hazing, increase funding, and get the press off our back. We also get an insurance cut.

So, like I said, the BMP is a great concept for today's world. Worldly dynamics and the law have greatly influenced the way we conduct ourselves. I don't necessarly agree with physical hazing, but if you don't work for something, how can you be proud of it? Research shows that individuals who go through intense physical and mental abuse (military) are more patriotic of their organization than someone who just pays money to be a member.

[SteveHofstetter]

The thing I liked about my BMP experience was that I worked for my goals, but they were my goals and not other people's. The problem is that the BMP is not always run the way it was designed. When I was in the Phi challenge, my mentor took me aside and said "make three outlandish goals and complete them before the end of the semester" - I did, and I completed them, and I was damn proud. But that's me - everyone is different, and that's why its ok to have different systems.

I think, strictly followed, pledging is the best system. But we're human, and humans are stupid and don't follow things strictly. While the perfect pledge system is better than the perfect BMP, pledging with human error is WAY more dangerous than BMP with human error. HQ "pushing" the BMP is all risk factor, and knowing their audience. Some of us can handle the responsibilities of a pledging program, but more than most have proven that they can't.

It's funny - there's such a schism between BMP and traditional, but there isn't between any of our other divisions. (Say, public and private schools?). I travel to schools for a living, and everyone everywhere gives me crap for going to Columbia as an undergrad. But SigEps are the only people who look past that, and then give me crap for being BMP. :-)

[wvbeta1880]

TRADITIONAL ALL THE WAY BABY!!!!

[Txkappasigep]

i am currently a sigma in a bmp chapter and i am seeing only good things so far. i live in the house and did so about a month before the changeover to bmp so i got to see both. where traditional has its pros, bmp stresses one of the six ideal traits of a sig ep, accountability. it holds everyone accountable, not just the "pledges" but older members too. at the beginning of this semester we also had a "chapter review" like another poster did where we eliminated the dead weight in our chapter. since then we have been much better off. we no longer have to pull the slack for the older members who were cheating us by not participating. myself and my 20 member, new member class, are tight as hell. we know balanced man inside and out and are making it work. i respect the traditional chapters but we need to make sure we do not forget, we are all sig eps regardless.

[SigEp506]

To say that one aspect of being traditional is better than being BMP is the wrong way to look at things. We should look at is as just being a Sig Ep, because when it all comes down to it that is what we are, and we are the best of the best!
Although, with everything there are good things and bad things that come out of new ideas; when trying to curtail the effects of hazing and the risk management that goes along with it, this is the pendulum swinging back and forth.
We are a traditional chapter with pledges, yet we do not haze. We teach our new members the basic ideals of Sig Ep, yet we are able to see if they are going to make a good brother or not, without giving away our ritual or parts of our ritual to them. This time period is in the same concept of starting a new job and being on a prohibition period. They want to see that you are a team player, before they give you all the benefits of employment. There is a famous quote and it goes like this "YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO FOLLOW BEFORE YOU CAN LEAD." Look at the brothers like Bill Mendenhall, who saw the ritual in one sitting like the rest of his traditional brothers, and look at the positive effect it had on him. He wrote one of the most inspiring letters about Sig Ep that anyone has ever written.
I understand that times change, but I also think we need to do what is best for Sig Ep. I have a football shirt from high school, and it is states that, "THINGS ARE BETTER OFF EARNED THAN GIVEN, BECAUSE IT MEANS MORE IN THE END, WHEN THE BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS HAVE ALL DRIED UP." Sig Ep is the best thing in the world, but if we let everyone in the world in without "testing" them, then we are letting Sig Ep fall with the rest of the Fraternities. Remember we are the best Fraternity; we take the cream of the crop, not what is left in the barrel.