UT Austin and Out of State Recruitment

[Tinkerbell1]

Originally Posted by Iota_JWH

UC-Berkeley had 20 sororities by 1920, nearly all single letter chapters. University of Illinois had 16 chapters. Much more than Texas.

Yep, SLang is one of those "women" that is the stereotype of the entitled sorority b****

UT is the epicenter of entitled sorority B's. In fact, the whole university is quite full of itself.

[33girl]

Profit shares? I gather that is some sort of social event from the context but I absolutely fail to even guess as to what it entails.

And for an active to refer to a 35 year old chapter as though it opened a year ago...for better or worse, things certainly are different there.

[PhilTau]

Please don't judge the entire UT-Austin student body from the statements of the person who joined GreekChat a few days ago. “I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China. It could also be lots of other people. * * *"

The fact is, for better or for worse, UT-Austin (undergraduate) is not the same school that it was when anyone could attend who had the money to go there. (Don't jump on me about this, at one time this was very true.) Also, having done a substantial portion of my undergraduate work there (though not my Greek affiliation), I am not trying to slam UT-Austin.

Many of the perceived problems encountered by the UT-Austin Greek system stem from the state's "Top 10% Plan" implemented in 1997, which was an attempt to transition away from affirmative action. Though this plan has been tweaked a bit just for UT-Austin, it had the effect of denying admission to many students from upper middle class high schools (i.e., the type who join fraternities) who were not in the top 10 percent. So, many of these upper middle class UT-Austin non-admits now go out of state to places like Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Mississippi, etc. - or to private Texas universities.

The cold hard fact is that - despite what they think - those who attend UT-Austin are not special or entitled. The average undergraduate at every university in the UT System is receiving an undergraduate education comparable to that they would get at UT-Austin. There are a few exceptional undergraduate programs at UT-Austin, but the quality level at UT-Austin does not begin to separate out until graduate and post graduate programs are taken into consideration.

It is interesting that none of the other 10+ universities in the University of Texas System or the Texas A&M System have the type of complaints that are repeatedly leveled at the UT-Austin Greek organizations. It is depressing, but the long-term (decades out) outlook for UT-Austin Greek organizations appears bleak unless the active members of those groups come to terms with the seismic, socioeconomic shift that occurred in the student body almost two decades ago.

[BGKdLady]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Profit shares? I gather that is some sort of social event from the context but I absolutely fail to even guess as to what it entails.
.

Profit shares are really common at UT. My daughter does them for her sports team there. It's when a local restaurant/fast food place sponsors a night for them to invite friends to come eat out and in return gives the club a percentage of the profit as a fund raising event.

[33girl]

Oh, okay! We do those around here too but they aren't called that.

I was hoping for a party where everyone dressed in three piece suits and walked around carrying briefcases.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Oh, okay! We do those around here too but they aren't called that.

I was hoping for a party where everyone dressed in three piece suits and walked around carrying briefcases.

Ha, right? I couldn't get a similar image out of my head.

I guess I've never really known these events to have any kind of a name.

[BGKdLady]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was hoping for a party where everyone dressed in three piece suits and walked around carrying briefcases.

Ha ha! There's a visual! I guess if it was held on the day of the business school's job fair that would be a possibility!!!

[trymeplease]

For OOS girls going to UT - it is very important to connect with girls from your high school at UT and are in sororities (if there are any). You need to do everything you can to level the playing field regarding connections. As a fellow California family, we got 2-3 letters of rec for each sorority, and didn't know about "letters of support". I don't know whether it made much of a difference either way - I view it is each sorority just got more "paperwork" that was probably redundant.

There is a great guide that we used like a Bible - google the Houston area panhellenic recruitment guide - this way you will know what your "competitors" are doing. Read up on the attire for Rush, and don't be afraid to dress it up a bit, many girls do this.

Practice your conversation skills - being OOS is a great conversation starter and way to be remembered. As said up thread, there are a few sororities that primarily draw from the same Texas neighborhoods/camps - no biggie, there are plenty of sororities that actually get to know you and assess your fit. Be ready for a long, exhausting, hot week - the humidity is the hardest thing to get used to. There are things you can bring with you to help cope with the heat.

Good luck!

[DeltaSall]

Originally Posted by PhilTau

Please don't judge the entire UT-Austin student body from the statements of the person who joined GreekChat a few days ago. “I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China. It could also be lots of other people. * * *"

The fact is, for better or for worse, UT-Austin (undergraduate) is not the same school that it was when anyone could attend who had the money to go there. (Don't jump on me about this, at one time this was very true.) Also, having done a substantial portion of my undergraduate work there (though not my Greek affiliation), I am not trying to slam UT-Austin.

Many of the perceived problems encountered by the UT-Austin Greek system stem from the state's "Top 10% Plan" implemented in 1997, which was an attempt to transition away from affirmative action. Though this plan has been tweaked a bit just for UT-Austin, it had the effect of denying admission to many students from upper middle class high schools (i.e., the type who join fraternities) who were not in the top 10 percent. So, many of these upper middle class UT-Austin non-admits now go out of state to places like Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Mississippi, etc. - or to private Texas universities.

The cold hard fact is that - despite what they think - those who attend UT-Austin are not special or entitled. The average undergraduate at every university in the UT System is receiving an undergraduate education comparable to that they would get at UT-Austin. There are a few exceptional undergraduate programs at UT-Austin, but the quality level at UT-Austin does not begin to separate out until graduate and post graduate programs are taken into consideration.

It is interesting that none of the other 10+ universities in the University of Texas System or the Texas A&M System have the type of complaints that are repeatedly leveled at the UT-Austin Greek organizations. It is depressing, but the long-term (decades out) outlook for UT-Austin Greek organizations appears bleak unless the active members of those groups come to terms with the seismic, socioeconomic shift that occurred in the student body almost two decades ago.

My niece was top 3% at her large public high school and was awarded a full scholarship to UTD. After much research, she decided on UT due to many factors.

UTD is the strongest school academically in the UT system outside of the flagship but is predominately a commuter school. The difference in resources between UTD and UT is vast. UTD is heavy on sciences but lacks the balance that art, classics, humanities and athletics provide.

The flagship has a higher graduation rate, vastly superior facilities, more vibrant student experience, mammoth R&D funding, a national and global reputation (it's considered a Public Ivy), award-winning faculty (including Nobel laureates), higher freshman SAT scores, is a member of the prestigious AAU, has medical/dental/law schools attached, has Top 10 nationally ranked undergrad programs in business, engineering, comp sciences, Spanish, even more nationally ranked graduate programs, etc. Too many advantages to name. Regarding the other system branches, the differences are even greater.

In national rankings of any kind, the branch schools are non-existent.

The flagship as the sole school of excellence within the UT system is well documented. For example, the UC schools have numerous excellent branches (UCSD, UCLA, Berkely). It is a weakness of the UT system that only UT is excellent. The UT system needs to develop excellence across it's branches if the state as a whole is to fully benefit.

Additionally, the upper-middle-class students not accepted by UT are not giving way to sub-standard, "top 7%" students. Spots are taken by higher performing students, namely in-state Asian & Indian American students and OOS students (the ascent of the Asian/Indian American student accounts for the largest minority student gains at UT).

But back to your point, the branch schools do not deliver the same education as UT in any sense.

[DeltaSall]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell1

UT is the epicenter of entitled sorority B's. In fact, the whole university is quite full of itself.

Yikes! I'm really getting concerned for my niece rushing at Texas after reading all of the threads on here! She really wants to be part of greek life but the process sounds daunting.

[APhi2KD]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell1

UT is the epicenter of entitled sorority B's. In fact, the whole university is quite full of itself.

Originally Posted by DeltaSall

Yikes! I'm really getting concerned for my niece rushing at Texas after reading all of the threads on here! She really wants to be part of greek life but the process sounds daunting.

Originally Posted by DeltaSall

But back to your point, the branch schools do not deliver the same education as UT in any sense.

Kind of sounds like she’ll fit in juuust fine.

[PhilTau]

Originally Posted by DeltaSall

My niece was top 3% at her large public high school and was awarded a full scholarship to UTD. After much research, she decided on UT due to many factors.

UTD is the strongest school academically in the UT system outside of the flagship but is predominately a commuter school. The difference in resources between UTD and UT is vast. UTD is heavy on sciences but lacks the balance that art, classics, humanities and athletics provide.

The flagship has a higher graduation rate, vastly superior facilities, more vibrant student experience, mammoth R&D funding, a national and global reputation (it's considered a Public Ivy), award-winning faculty (including Nobel laureates), higher freshman SAT scores, is a member of the prestigious AAU, has medical/dental/law schools attached, has Top 10 nationally ranked undergrad programs in business, engineering, comp sciences, Spanish, even more nationally ranked graduate programs, etc. Too many advantages to name. Regarding the other system branches, the differences are even greater.

In national rankings of any kind, the branch schools are non-existent.

The flagship as the sole school of excellence within the UT system is well documented. For example, the UC schools have numerous excellent branches (UCSD, UCLA, Berkely). It is a weakness of the UT system that only UT is excellent. The UT system needs to develop excellence across it's branches if the state as a whole is to fully benefit.

Additionally, the upper-middle-class students not accepted by UT are not giving way to sub-standard, "top 7%" students. Spots are taken by higher performing students, namely in-state Asian & Indian American students and OOS students (the ascent of the Asian/Indian American student accounts for the largest minority student gains at UT).

But back to your point, the branch schools do not deliver the same education as UT in any sense.

* * *

Here's what I said within the comment you quoted:

"The average undergraduate at every university in the UT System is receiving an undergraduate education comparable to that they would get at UT-Austin. There are a few exceptional undergraduate programs at UT-Austin, but the quality level at UT-Austin does not begin to separate out until graduate and post graduate programs are taken into consideration."

I used the specific phrase "undergraduate education comparable to." I did not say they "deliver the same education." I stand by my original comment.

Interestingly, a cogent argument can be made that the AVERAGE (not Sally-the-genius-that-should-have-gone-to-Rice) undergraduate student may actually receive a better academic experience and outcome at a branch university for each of the following reasons --

1) Survey classes smaller than 200+ students.
2) Smaller class size in general with lower level undergraduate courses likely taught by tenure track faculty.
3) Fewer classes taught by graduate assistants.
4) More focus on teaching undergraduates vs. research funding. (Nobel laureates and other "award-winning faculty" do not teach the typical undergraduate. They don't have the time because they are usually principal investigators on multiple research contracts with the university.)
5) Accessibility of tenured faculty (not just teaching assistants) to undergraduates during office hours.
6) Accessibility and admission to a competitive major that may otherwise be closed to the average undergraduate student at UT-Austin.
7) A better chance to attain higher class standing and academic honors making them more competitive in job seeking or graduate school applications than a middle-of-the-pack UT-Austin baccalaureate.
8) Cost.

UT-Austin is a great university deserving of its university reputation. Those who are mature enough to make it through the distractions and to obtain a bachelor's degree within four years should be commended for the accomplishment. The point I was making in the comment you reference was on a discussion about UT-Austin undergraduates thinking of themselves as being special or entitled. Again, they are not.

[DeltaSall]

Originally Posted by PhilTau

* * *

Here's what I said within the comment you quoted:

"The average undergraduate at every university in the UT System is receiving an undergraduate education comparable to that they would get at UT-Austin. There are a few exceptional undergraduate programs at UT-Austin, but the quality level at UT-Austin does not begin to separate out until graduate and post graduate programs are taken into consideration."

I used the specific phrase "undergraduate education comparable to." I did not say they "deliver the same education." I stand by my original comment.

Interestingly, a cogent argument can be made that the AVERAGE (not Sally-the-genius-that-should-have-gone-to-Rice) undergraduate student may actually receive a better academic experience and outcome at a branch university for each of the following reasons --

1) Survey classes smaller than 200+ students.
2) Smaller class size in general with lower level undergraduate courses likely taught by tenure track faculty.
3) Fewer classes taught by graduate assistants.
4) More focus on teaching undergraduates vs. research funding. (Nobel laureates and other "award-winning faculty" do not teach the typical undergraduate. They don't have the time because they are usually principal investigators on multiple research contracts with the university.)
5) Accessibility of tenured faculty (not just teaching assistants) to undergraduates during office hours.
6) Accessibility and admission to a competitive major that may otherwise be closed to the average undergraduate student at UT-Austin.
7) A better chance to attain higher class standing and academic honors making them more competitive in job seeking or graduate school applications than a middle-of-the-pack UT-Austin baccalaureate.
8) Cost.

UT-Austin is a great university deserving of its university reputation. Those who are mature enough to make it through the distractions and to obtain a bachelor's degree within four years should be commended for the accomplishment. The point I was making in the comment you reference was on a discussion about UT-Austin undergraduates thinking of themselves as being special or entitled. Again, they are not.

#1-#7 are pure speculation on your part but would not sully UT's superiority versus the branches were they proven true. On #8, UTD and UT Arlington have similar tuition as the flagship while the other branches have nominally lower tuition. The UT branches do not provide a comparable education to the flagship as evidenced by any ranking imaginable, including starting salaries for graduates.

What you might mean to have implied in all of this is that a branch might be a better fit for certain students versus attending the flagship and to that, I would agree.

As for UT students being entitled, I can't speak to that but I can say that many of them are looked upon as special when compared to the majority of applicants that don't secure admission but really wanted to attend. My niece was one of them! but I think she's pretty special anyway...(I'm totally biased, I know).

[Tinkerbell1]

Sorry Phil T.
Ain't no body in their right mind is thinkin' UT Dallas (or UTEP or UT Brownsville) and UT Austin have comparable educations.
Now, on to 'entitled'. Nice of you not to want to call them that but it is one of the best ways to describe a good number of UT snowflakes, especially the greek ones.

[PhilTau]

I know this tread has drifted away from the OP, but I feel I need to respond.

My prior comments are based on a career in government-sponsored applied research and corporate contracts with large research-oriented universities. I will admit that my opinion about undergraduate education quality is colored by my experiences in the U.S. government and large technology companies. Virtually everyone I have worked with in that field holds a Ph.D. or equivalent degree. In that world, undergraduate degrees are thought of (more or less) as fungible - like the old joke about opinions - everybody has one. Other than on a curriculum vitae, I do not recall anyone even mentioning where they attended undergrad.

I do remember my sophomore level government and math classes at UT-Austin. The government classes were 300 students in a large lecture hall with a 30-year-old assistant professor who had five graduate student TAs holding smaller weekly "discussion groups" with about 30 students each. My math courses were taught by 22-year-old assistant instructors/graduate students. Anyone who has attended lower level undergraduate classes UT-Austin has likely had this type of experience one way or another. So don't talk to me about quality of education.

Now when we talk about the quality of bachelor's degree, an ordinary bachelor's degree (one awarded without honors) from UT-Austin is clearly perceived by the world as better than an ordinary bachelor's degree from UTEP, UTA or UTD. You will get no argument from me about this fact.

But my question (and point) is this:

Is an ordinary bachelor's degree (one awarded without honors) from UT-Austin better than a first-in-class bachelor's degree awarded with highest honors from UTA?

Which degree (assuming all else equal) would most likely gain an admit to Impossibletogetinto Medical School which already has 5 UT-Austin grads in its 2022 class?

* * *

Finally, the only area presented in my earlier post that could rightfully be called speculation is my assumption that a UT-Austin admit who may graduate middle-of-the-pack at UT-Austin would be at the top of her class at a branch school like UTA. And since she is so "special and entitled," how could anyone say she wouldn't be?