White after labor day?

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

All of our posts are about cultural and learned behaviors. The issue some of us have with Heartofheart's posts is adding additional cultural biases to an already cultured and biased process. A well-educated and highly accomplished person who is an otherwise strong applicant should not be denied solely based on wearing a clothing item "out-of-season". Interviewers go based on level of comfort with applicants but Heartofheart is extending seasonal fashion to mean a person is not properly-cultured, not well-informed, ill-equipped, and possibly does not take her/his career seriously. Seasonal fashion is the least of these indicators.

And that, friends, should end this thread. No more needs saying.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

And that, friends, should end this thread. No more needs saying.

Not so soon. The people on the "other side" of this thread see the (un)acceptability of certain colors and fabrics as the same kind of culture and learned behavior as anything else. I completely disagree but see where they are coming from.

As far as I'm concerned, it is one thing to frown at someone's fashion choice for wearing a color or fabric "out-of-season". It is another thing to make assumptions regarding that person's accomplishments, overall preparedness, and not hire the person. It is a big deal for some people to learn what certain cultures consider "business attire" or "business etiquette." I don't think people should also have to care that some job interviewers may be playing Fashion Police () and view certain colors and fabrics as "out of season." Especially since not everyone in that region or in that job sector believes certain colors and fabrics are "out of season".

[AZTheta]

Tossing in the WHITE towel, I've been schooled. I'm going out to save the whales, and reverse global warming, after I find a cure for the Ebola virus, wearing WHITE by the way.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Tossing in the WHITE towel, I've been schooled. I'm going out to save the whales, and reverse global warming, after I find a cure for the Ebola virus, wearing WHITE by the way.

None of this can be accomplished if you don't abide by seasonal rules.

This thread reminded me...I hung out with a really good friend about 10 years ago during a REALLY HOT summer. When we eventually got seated at the restaurant, the bright lights shined on his pants. What I thought were orange-brown khakis were actually orange-brown corduroys. I smiled and said "are you wearing corduroys in the summer?" We laughed and he said "yeah, they are really thin pants and I'm comfortable." I said "cool" and we moved on. If his body can handle it and he doesn't feel "out of season" then good for him. Some people wear corduroy year round (jackets, pants, shorts).

[33girl]

White in winter in the North just plain doesn't make sense, due to rain, snow, slush and the other gross things that H2O morphs into. I'm fairly sure that's how the rule started. Also, it's just basic that lighter colors reflect heat and darker colors absorb it (i.e. don't wear your black t-shirts to the amusement park, not because of fashion, but because you don't want to bake). I honestly think that's it, not a "snobbery" thing. As for that silly reference to the Queen wearing white ermine, obviously fur doesn't count. People who say things like that aren't using common sense.

P.S. White jeans are another of those things that after a certain age/poundage just don't look very good. As is evidenced by the tons of them on sale every freaking August.

[snowflakemom]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This website captures my view of fashion. A "stylish" and "creative" person is not limited by outdated standards.

http://www.puttingmetogether.com/201...asons.html?m=1

Love that post! Great ideas

[PersistentDST]

I've been reading this thread and I find it to be interesting.

I'm from the Midwest (some of you would call it North, but that's not how we label ourselves) and I am also very much into fashion. Generally, being fashion forward means evolving and sometimes breaking traditional "rules." Historically, the purpose of wearing white in the summer was based on the temperature, and it was not until around the 1950's that certain people forced it to become "law." (For more info, check this out: http://content.time.com/time/nation/...920684,00.html )

The fashion world does not condemn individuals who wear white after Labor Day. Generally, it is about the shade of white, texture and sometimes the sillouette of the garment. Around here, Lighter fabrics and purer whites tend to be the norm in the summer, whereas heavier fabrics and "winter whites" tend to be the norm in the winter. Around here, it is tough to even FIND pure white items in the winter months (and I had to do so a few years back ). But winter white is easy to find, and appropriate for our region. I own a fab, winter white turtleneck sweater, and it has remained a part of my wardrobe for years as it is a timeless piece. I've been obsesssed about this white wool trenchcoat I saw last year. Here are some more tips: http://www.cosmopolitan.com/style-be...ter-labor-day/

I would hate to think that such a rule would keep a qualified PNM/interest/potentional employee from receiving an opportunity, because they are being fashion forward or from another region where such rules are considered outdated. If that's how some employers or organizations want to judge me, in comparison to my merit/resume/interview, I would choose to pass. Those aren't my type of people. History also states that wealthier people were more likely to wear white as well, so that could also play into the culture. http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runnin...easons_beh.php

...and besides, myself, and my fabulous Sorors wear our cream/white all year round, and I dare someone to judge us for it.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by Hearttoheart

And while I'm preaching, visible tattoos are still taboo! Many qualified college grads are being passed up for corporate positions because they like to buck the system.

Given the prevalence of tattoos -- especially among 20 to 40 year-olds -- I have wondered how these play in a professional interview process.

While I can grow accustomed to fashion trends I don't necessarily love, I doubt I will ever grow accustomed to this one. I have never seen a tattoo that I consider tasteful or attractive.

No offense intended to those who have tattoos -- just my personal preference.

[33girl]

I think it depends on the mission of the company, the region of the country and what the tattoos are. A bracelet tattoo isn't any more distracting than a big honking Rolex, IMO.

I know one thing I hate seeing is - if you're going to get tattoos with color - be aware you'll have to get them touched up after a few years. Even if you do think tattoos can look classy, faded ones never do.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Given the prevalence of tattoos -- especially among 20 to 40 year-olds -- I have wondered how these play in a professional interview process.

While I can grow accustomed to fashion trends I don't necessarily love, I doubt I will ever grow accustomed to this one. I have never seen a tattoo that I consider tasteful or attractive.

No offense intended to those who have tattoos -- just my personal preference.

I'm a vice president at a major media company in DC and I have semi-visible tattoos (usually visible in business casual attire, covered when wearing a suit). I've never had anyone in the office bat an eyelash at mine, nor have I ever cared about them on a job candidate. Probably depends on the industry -- I think it's actually benefitted me career-wise to look a little "edgy" in a creative field. I covered them up when I was starting my career and just needed a job, but I'm not sure I would now that I'm more established…any place that's uptight about visible tattoos is unlikely to be a good cultural fit for me.

[AGDee]

Visible tattoos would not fly at my current company, nor did they fly in my previous jobs in health care. There were specific dress code items stating any tattoos had to be covered at the hospitals/health care systems where I worked. In my current job, you simply don't see them at all, which tells me there is a bias against them and they aren't hiring people who have visible tattoos. Then again, it is a very business/corporate/conservative environment.

[StealthMode]

Originally Posted by Hearttoheart

Don't shoot the messenger. The point I was trying to make was that in job interviews AND sorority recruitment what you wear makes a difference. When looking at two equal applicants, the one I perceive to be better put together will get the job.

While I agree with this, it's the "dressing like the bars" thing with which I can't quite jive.

Tossing in the WHITE towel, I've been schooled. I'm going out to save the whales, and reverse global warming, after I find a cure for the Ebola virus, wearing WHITE by the way.

LOL I heart you.

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Given the prevalence of tattoos -- especially among 20 to 40 year-olds -- I have wondered how these play in a professional interview process.

No problem. I thought long and hard before deciding to get a butterfly on my wrist (which has a deeply personal meaning and I thought about for three years before I finally got it). The tipping point was meeting a girl in the cohort above me in school who also had a tattoo on her wrist and had never encountered any resistance in getting a job or school placement. Since getting mine, I have only encountered people who ignored my tattoo or loved it. It's not a popular decision but I don't regret it at all (especially because it is small enough to be covered by a watch or bracelet).

[LAblondeGPhi]

Since this has morphed into a job interview attire thread, here are my two cents on that issue:

IMO, college-aged women in general do a relatively poor job of dressing for professional interviews. Whereas men have worn suits for every major formal function since toddlerhood (weddings, Bar/Bat Mitzvahs, etc.) women don't typically wear or own suiting until they are interviewing for an internship or job.

I'm having a hard time placing the white rule in with job interview attire. The much more common issue I see is clothing that is too short, too shear or thin, generally poorly fitted, pieces that are the same color but don't match, iffy fabrics, etc.

Some classmates and I worked on a womens' suiting concept last year in business school, and conducted about 100 interviews with 20-somethings on their professional clothing choices. I was shocked how many of the 20- to 22-year-olds were purchasing their internship and job interview clothes at Zara and H&M. And this was not a strict matter of being able to afford these pieces, it was a lack of awareness of what is acceptable.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

I'm having a hard time placing the white rule in with job interview attire.

Exactly.

[Sciencewoman]

A fellow professor who coordinates the student teacher program does a job interview session. He comes in wearing shorts, a Hawaiian print shirt, fake nylon tattoo sleeves, a fake hoop earring, and flip-flops. He also has a beard, and he talks to the guys about "beard prejudice." His point is that teachers are generally expected to follow very traditional clothing rules, and while you can try to buck this expectation or stand up for your right to dress like you want to, it's unlikely you'll get the job if your outward appearance sets off warning bells in the interviewers' minds.

Etiquette dinners are held each semester at my university, and my daughter's. The business school has hosted a "surviving a golf outing" event. As culturally conscious as we hope to be, the reality is that not knowing the unwritten rules of those who hold positions of power can create a barrier for those who were not raised to know these norms.

You can't effect change within the system if you can't get a foot in the door.