Maybe this deserves a discussion

[carnation]

Okay, S___, I win the bet on this one! You owe me 5 bucks.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by elip...sis

The petition is more of a visual manifestation to show organizations and the NPC that this is something that warrants a discussion. I understand that letters aren't necessary, but this is for those who want those letters and the bond even after dropping, disaffiliating, or transferring schools.

Look - that's your opinion, fine. It is based on evidence that you've not presented, so I'm not willing to consider it as having any merit. You just started a petition, good for you. Who needs evidence anyway?

NPC GLOs are not in the business of regulating friendships, in case you weren't aware of that fact. You can remain friends with the women in the chapter; I've seen this happen, regardless of status. You don't need the letters and the bond is up to you.

It sounds to me like you want all the privileges of membership with none of the responsibilities. Because guess what? Sometimes it is really hard to be a member and *newsflash* the problem may have been YOU, not the rest of the chapter. I am willing to bet that many other alumnae who've served as advisors to college chapters can name members (former members) who were/are just like you. The problem isn't with everyone else, those big meanies - trust me.

And again you need to do research before you spout off about lawsuits against private membership organizations. Further, this isn't hostility. It's what it sounds like when people don't blow rainbows up your ***, and tell you the truth instead of what you want to hear.

[SWTXBelle]

Lawsuits? Of course, anyone can attempt to sue for anything, but really, what would the basis be - "I don't like the rules of the group I joined voluntarily and whose rules I agreed to follow, so please make them do what I want" doesn't seem to have much legal merit.

Okay ladies,

It's understood, you don't agree, you think I'm entitled. You don't know me so there's no reason for me to have to defend myself. I have a father who has served for 30 years, a mother who served for 22 years and taught me to stand up for myself and others. This is what I'm doing. The lawsuits I was referring to would be due to the treatment of members not in order to become a member, that would be stupid. Obviously. Lawsuits against organizations do happen, we've seen them. I don't owe anyone an explanation. I enjoy having conversations where people disagree with me because it allows me to interact with people who don't share my point of view and allows for growth. I have been for the majority attacked personally for no reason other than you disagree with me. I came here ready to interact respectfully with members of the greek community, unfortunately that's not what occurred. If this thread is so obscene please feel free to delete it along with my account I have no desire to interact further. I didn't/don't intend or mean to offend anyone with this. I hope you all have blessed days.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by elip...sis

What exactly is wrong with this?

I'm not saying it's a large number of women compared to those who are happy within their organization the first go 'round.
I'm saying that those who aren't happy deserve a second opportunity

Originally Posted by elip...sis

I'm no longer able to do this as a grad. student.

It's okay that you don't understand because that means you had a great experience. That's great for you. Unfortunately there are those who don't get to experience that.

Even those who transfer aren't that blessed.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

Correct. Just because they change the rule doesn't require a bid be issued, they'd still be going through recruitment again and all the same risks apply.

For those that I know and myself, our new member period was VASTLY different than our active membership treatment.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

I'm not entitled, no you don't get do overs for everything in life, but this is still in the confines of the college experience and it's not as far fetched as you make it seem. Personally attacking someone isn't the correct way to go about this. I respect your opinion.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

There would be some initial chaos, I agree, but only because I think there are that many women who are unhappy with their organization. Just think of all the active alumnae organizations would have should this actually happen.

I simply think this warrants a serious discussion.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

That's fair, given your stance. However, I'd suggest coming from a place of more understanding and compassion. I made friends during my time as an active member and should you have had witnessed your friends tears or what have you I'm sure you'd feel just as passionately. There are hundreds of young women who want this and although we don't always get what we want simply questioning why can't this be done isn't a crazy thing to do.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

As of right now, without much promotion other than a few Facebook posts and one feature on a blog I have 116 signatures on that petition. 21 comments saying that they agree and 1 saying the rules should stand.

It's a small number, true, but this is without constant promotion and those are only people who are willing to sign. At the very least these comments show that the conversation has been had between greek members. There are more who have seen this absolutely, but not everyone who agrees will sign. I just think this deserves consideration.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

Some could, nothing on the internet is perfect, but prior to starting this petition and reading those comments I never even thought about the transfer students not being able to be a part of their sisterhood.

It opened my own mind on how I was so focused just on those dropping that I didn't think about those losing their sisters for another school.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

I've tried talking to my former organization about such an idea and they directed me to the NPC. I understand that, it's not that I expect the change to happen quickly, I just want the organizations to be aware that this is something that they could benefit from. Not only would they have happier members, higher alumnae involvement, they could make money. Imagine if it was only 300 young women who transferred or dropped- they go through recruitment again and pay dues again versus no dues coming in from them at all.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

I'm not saying that these women have to do anything other than choose to disaffiliate.

They sign an agreement barring them from disclosing ritual secrets and go about their recruitment a second and last time.

There are "bad eggs" in every organization that's just what happens. Even with going through recruitment one time.

Sometimes being a part of the wrong organization can bring out the worst in people. All it takes is being around the right people showing support to cultivate young women into the best and brightest that the Greek System demands.

I feel like it's necessary to say that disaffiliating and dropping isn't easy for someone who WANTS to be a part of a sisterhood. I feel like the women who WANT to be a part of a sisterhood would happily and respectfully take the second chance and make the best of it. It's not easy being one of the vocal people about this either.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

I don't understand why you're so aggressive and suggesting that the people who signed the petition are fake?

I know for a fact at least half are active in their organization.

To be perfectly honest, there could be suits without it should the women who drop and disaffiliate due to mistreatment feel that strongly about it.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

The petition is more of a visual manifestation to show organizations and the NPC that this is something that warrants a discussion. I understand that letters aren't necessary, but this is for those who want those letters and the bond even after dropping, disaffiliating, or transferring schools.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

I don't understand why there is so much aggression. It's incredibly rude and disrespectful. Lawsuits against an org or chapter are actually possible.
It really doesn't require any of this hostility, having adult conversations with opposing viewpoints is possible.

Originally Posted by elip...sis

Okay ladies,

It's understood, you don't agree, you think I'm entitled. You don't know me so there's no reason for me to have to defend myself. I have a father who has served for 30 years, a mother who served for 22 years and taught me to stand up for myself and others. This is what I'm doing. The lawsuits I was referring to would be due to the treatment of members not in order to become a member, that would be stupid. Obviously. Lawsuits against organizations do happen, we've seen them. I don't owe anyone an explanation. I enjoy having conversations where people disagree with me because it allows me to interact with people who don't share my point of view and allows for growth. I have been for the majority attacked personally for no reason other than you disagree with me. I came here ready to interact respectfully with members of the greek community, unfortunately that's not what occurred. If this thread is so obscene please feel free to delete it along with my account I have no desire to interact further. I didn't/don't intend or mean to offend anyone with this. I hope you all have blessed days.

Man I just felt like QFPing the entire hot mess just because. ETA: I don't see hostility. What I see is you not getting your way, we're not telling you what you want to hear.

[tinydancer]

This makes my brain hurt.

[SWTXBelle]

Awwww . . . incomprehensible flounce. Entitled, petulant toddler is entitled and petulant. She should be glad she wasn't in my freshman comp class - her attitude and failure to write in a coherent way would not have resulted in the grade she wanted, and then I'm sure she'd appeal, and threaten to sue . . . I'm glad to have dodged THAT bullet, and also grateful that is no longer a member of a NPC group. Can you just imagine her as an alumna?

[honeychile]

My own tuppence: We each made a vow to our sorority. Yes, there are good times, and yes, there are bad times. During the college years, the drama level can get much too high, but guess what? That happens in every sorority. Even the one you wish you had joined.

The real proof of the value of sorority and fraternity comes not while in college, but afterwards. Your friend base will go from all members of XYZ, with a few exceptions, to a more panhellenic base. You've probably heard, "no matter what the letter, we're all Greek together." That becomes so much more pronounced as alumnae. When I think of my closest Greek friends, I guarantee you that I'm thinking about wonderful women in several different sororities, not just of my own!

The option to cut and run from sorority to sorority in the NPC negates the chance to discover amazing sisters of your own sorority in your alumnae group, and also to meet some wonderful alumnae of other sororities. I wouldn't have that happen for the world.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by elip...sis

For those that I know and myself, our new member period was VASTLY different than our active membership treatment.

Then you need to sit down and write a letter to your former sorority that says:

Dear XYZ:

I am a former member of your sorority. I disaffiliated because the new member program did not adequately prepare me for membership. My NM period was filled with {insert fun stuff here} and nothing else. Once I was initiated, it was all {insert crap here} which I was completely shielded from as a NM.

In my opinion NM period should be less fun and more work and reality.


You'll find those sentiments all over this board. Shortened and easier pledge periods have not worked for our organizations. But that should be your focus, not changing the rules so you can get a bid from another NPC who does the same thing.

[KerriMarie]

Well, this got interesting!

[Sororitysock]

Really? You think the NPC should just throw away rules that have helped our organizations grow and thrive together for 114 years simply because a few kids decided they didn’t like their circumstances? Membership is a privilege, not a right. When you decide to leave an organization, for whatever reason, it is your decision and the ramifications are your doing.

You have no idea about our inner workings or alumnae involvement or anything that may effect the membership of our organizations because you are not a sorority member. You’re not in a position to have any kind of educated opinion.

Since this is something that’s continuing to bother you after you’ve left your undergrad years to the point that you’ve put together a “petition” and are campaigning across the Internet, I believe you could benefit from the help of a mental health professional. This kind of obsession isn’t healthy.

[SylvanAerie]

Dear Elip...sis: The NPC has already had this discussion. And decided. All the NPC member orgs agreed. I think you'll need more than the number of signees you've got to make this seem discussable again. There is always a small percentage of women who decide they don't like their choice. And alot of those who don't like it in the beginning come to adore their organization if they stick it out.
Your examples are vague, but when you saw "girls getting harassed about wrong doings," you could have used your sparkling charm to defuse the situation and negotiate a truce, pointing out the standards of generous and ethical behavior your sorority sets as one of your goals. Getting harassed and bullied for doing what you were told to do? Thank them for the feedback and ask for clarification. With charm and good humor. Watching girls get ignored? Reach out to them, be a good example, draw them into a meet&study coffee date or in- house popcorn-and-a-movie night. Mistreatment wasn't rectified? Go to your advisor for assistance. You could have used your natural enthusiasm, contagious good spirits, and great ideas to motivate and inspire your sisters to better behavior. Maybe a lot of these women grew up watching The Simpsons and have never had a good example of polite and respectful ways of dealing with frustration. Instead of being the solution, you just complained and waited for someone else to do something, and then quit when that strategy didn't work.
The sororities you think you want to be in - that don't have these relationship glitches- already have women who possess these skills. They're not going to want you if you don't have them, and your behavior says you haven't mastered these yet. A second chance to join another group wouldn't work because, well, it doesn't work. The groups that want you also have these same problems. Same boat, different color oars. These skills are learnable and necessary in the workplace. Time to get busy.

[AnchorAlumna]

If your argument is that longer new member periods are needed, I totally agree with you.
If your argument is that you just don't like your choice, I don't agree.
Even at 6 weeks, you should be able to learn and experience enough to decide whether or not you want to continue for a lifetime.

[sigmagirl2000]

Aw, the petition is closed. So sad

[DZ_Turtle86]

I appreciate your wanting to have a discussion about your proposal, but you presented it to an audience who is dedicated to and passionate about their organizations.

If I was going to challenge Obama's policies, I wouldn't start by showing an impeachment petition on a DNC website, or try to discuss PETA with the NRA.

You didn't start a friendly discourse or ask for an explanation of the policy. You told us "The NPC policy is flat-out wrong, here's why, everyone can disclose rituals anyway so let's scrap the whole one-and-done thing." Of course you're going to get defensive responses, especially when you complain to a group that is opposed to what you want.