Sigma Alpha Epsilon Closes Case Western Reserve Chapter - Page 3

macallan25 · #31 11-10-2006, 07:10 PM

Come on guys....do yall really go out and party thinking about your national's Risk Management procedures? I dunno, maybe yall do.....which I would find rather silly/ridiculous.

Sorry, I just don't go to friends houses to party or go to the bar thinking about whether or not i'm following RM Procedure. I generally save those concerns for actual SAE events.

I still disagree though with the house thing. How is that any different than going to a bar where there is a group of people in your same fraternity? If some one gets too drunk at a bar and does something stupid.....do you really think an attorney is going to go after the GLO? I can't see that happening in any case whatsoever.

SoCalGirl · #32 11-10-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

...and lucky me I'm not in college anymore so I don't have to worry about it

And lucky me I'm not an advisor any more so I don't have to worry either!

jon1856 · #33 11-10-2006, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL-E1973

Just out of curiousity say like a few SAE's were having a kegger on their own time off campus. Some SAE's showed up some GDI's you know like your typical college gathering. It was never labeled an SAE party, could that hurt the chapter? Sorry if I sound stupid.

Brother,
There is no short way to answer that question. As someone else already posted, if you really want the best answer, contact RM Director at National.

From both my own experiences and from reading the news, if any member (s) of any social/sport/GLO/living group have a "situation/problem" off of campus, the name of the group will end up in the press.

FYI: Among those experiences were a riot and a murder.

TSteven · #34 11-10-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

Come on guys....do yall really go out and party thinking about your national's Risk Management procedures? I dunno, maybe yall do.....which I would find rather silly/ridiculous.

Sorry, I just don't go to friends houses to party or go to the bar thinking about whether or not i'm following RM Procedure. I generally save those concerns for actual SAE events.

I still disagree though with the house thing. How is that any different than going to a bar where there is a group of people in your same fraternity? If some one gets too drunk at a bar and does something stupid.....do you really think an attorney is going to go after the GLO? I can't see that happening in any case whatsoever.

I agree.

And what about family members who are in the same GLO. When they get together - say for someone's birthday or a holiday - would that be considered a GLO event?

I hope someone can clear this up soon. With the holidays coming up, I would like to know if we need to contact IHQ about how much bourbon we are allowed to put in the eggnog.

macallan25 · #35 11-10-2006, 08:07 PM

hahaha, good point. My dad is an SAE, as is my Grandfather....and I know that some of my dad's pledge brothers that live in my hometown are going to be over at the house. Should we contact nationals and let them know? Man, I hope they don't tell us that we'll have to split up our Thanksgiving dinner due to our house's wine cellar.

FL-E1973 · #36 11-10-2006, 08:52 PM

HAHAHA, that's funny, It's awesome that both your grandfather and your dad are SAE's or in a fraternity for that matter. I was the first to go to college in my family, and I hope my son does the same. I hope that the Greek system isn't totally destroyed by then though.

AGDee · #37 11-10-2006, 09:52 PM

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=81957

That thread shows how an event that is not a chapter sponsored event can result in your fraternity being sued. It's happening to that chapter, right or wrong. Whether the fraternity ends up being held liable is yet to be seen, but in the meantime, they are going to have pay big bucks in legal fees and participate in a law suit that is dragging their name through the mud and harming their reputation. Doesn't sound like a situation I'd want my fraternity or sorority to be in (or myself for that matter).

EE-BO · #38 11-10-2006, 10:16 PM

The practical reality is that often when an undergraduate is involved in any kind of accident resulting from what the general public associates with "fraternity behavior"- the fraternity will be named in news articles because it will attract more interest.

Is it right or fair? Of course not. But it is what it is.

Macallan25- your example is a good one for the point I am about to make, though clearly you are not having an official SAE event over Thanksgiving dinner.

What really drives these kinds of incidents is whether the press has access, or even knows to investigate, whether you are in a fraternity when they are reporting on the accident.

As fellow Texas students and graduates appreciate, the Daily Texan paper is always on the watch for fraternity stories they can publish because they have some kind of immature hatred of Greeks.

They sneak into closed parties (thereby breaking the risk management regulations of the University and GLOs- but I guess they figure they are entitled), they wait around at the jailhouse on weekend nights to see who gets arrested- and they investigate to see if names of anyone in an incident of some kind can be linked to a fraternity.

And then they will publish that information with the story.

And it is not just the Daily Texan that does this. In fact, if you read carefully the books "Wrongs of Passage" you will see a great many, if not the majority, of the incidents referenced in that book cannot be reasonably traced to any kind of hazing or other systematic weaknesses in a given Greek chapter. The author takes some care to make note of this in the index of incidents, but the text of the book (all most people will read anyway) does not make these distinctions.

It is good for business when the media can do a negative report on a fraternity member instead of just a regular college student- just like it is good for business to report on the mysterious disappearance of attractive young white women (Peterson, Smart, Holloway etc.) and yet ignore the vastly larger victimization rates of minority women. The isolated incident often arising from a domestic dispute is more important than a serious social issue because it gets more ratings and sells more advertising slots.

The frustration comes from the fact that IHQs, in response largely to demands by insurance companies, have to therefore institute policies like "3 members in a room represent the group no matter the circumstances" to protect the organization as a whole from those few rare instances where something happens to a handful of members and it becomes a major media event.

I don't like it. But I don't see a viable alternative either. Even with the greatest of care by a chapter, eventually someone with some connection (or someone present at an event with no connection) is going to do something dumb. And sometimes those incidents will make the papers.

When I was at Texas there was a very rare sorority pledge death that got no press coverage at all despite some very interesting circumstances. And yet there was weeks of coverage over a time when a Daily Texan reporter illegally snuck into a closed party and reported on the choice of a couple of members to wear black-face.

So make no mistake- this is all a crapshoot and often has little to do with the media seeking to serve the best interests of the public. Major incidents go under the radar at times. And at other times matters that are not even illegal and happen behind closed doors become major events.

What can be done about it? Your guess is as good as mine. This problem goes beyond fraternities- any group is subject to the same risk. And some people in life get really hosed for no good reason.

macallan25 · #39 11-10-2006, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=81957

That thread shows how an event that is not a chapter sponsored event can result in your fraternity being sued. It's happening to that chapter, right or wrong. Whether the fraternity ends up being held liable is yet to be seen, but in the meantime, they are going to have pay big bucks in legal fees and participate in a law suit that is dragging their name through the mud and harming their reputation. Doesn't sound like a situation I'd want my fraternity or sorority to be in (or myself for that matter).

I'm not harping on you, but what do you do then? This whole discussion is complete horse shit. Should we all just stay as far away from our friends and fraternity brothers as possible? I mean, what do you do?? Kick guys out of your home when there are too many SAE's there? Leave a bar because more than 3 or 4 of your brothers are in the same room? That is ridiculous.

Frankly, I think the family of the kid that died should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. As I said before, I think it is absolute bullshit that they would sue a fraternity when it is quite clear that he was doing something that had absolutely nothing to do with the chapter. It's almost like they chose to ignore the plain facts of the case when it was quite clear what happened. For them to honor their son's death by suing the organization, for money, that he probobly loved...is a joke.....and I would have no problem telling them that to their faces.

jon1856 · #40 11-10-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

hahaha, good point. My dad is an SAE, as is my Grandfather....and I know that some of my dad's pledge brothers that live in my hometown are going to be over at the house. Should we contact nationals and let them know? Man, I hope they don't tell us that we'll have to split up our Thanksgiving dinner due to our house's wine cellar.

Brother,
Good joke! And it is good to see a SAE tradition in your family.
IMHO/POV, this thread is talking about or dealing with undergrads in college and what happens either on campus or near by in off campus housing or locations.

To the best of my knowledge and experience, media would be likly include any group membership in a DUI case of a 20 year old on a campus but not in a report on a DUI of a 40 year old.

macallan25 · #41 11-10-2006, 10:53 PM

Oh I know, I was just joking.

SigmaPsi_Star · #42 11-11-2006, 11:50 PM

this is a little off from what's currently being talked about in this thread...but...

I go to Case, and my sorority's house is across from the former SAE house, and it's actually kind of sad for me to watch them all move out. But, their chapter had been on probation for a long time for...various reasons, and what I've heard (which could be total bs in actuality) is that they knew that by having/being at this party with kegs, they would get in trouble. So it was kind of a "screw it, we're getting kicked of campus anyway" thing from what I've been told.

I don't know any of them personally, but, I figured I'd throw what I "know" about it out there anyway.

DeltAlum · #43 11-12-2006, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

And lucky me I'm not an advisor any more so I don't have to worry either!

You bring up an excellent point. When I was an advisor and a division officer, although I knew that the Fraternity had laibility insurance under which I was covered, the way verdicts in lawsuits are going these days, I took out additional blanket laibility coverage myself.

Some fraternal organizations have trouble recruiting alumni advisors and these ongoing Risk Management issues certainly don't help.

Why should I put my financial future at risk for a group of people (chapters) who don't understand, or don't care, the potential problems they are creating themselves?

Even if they are brothers. To say nothing of the problems they may be creating for their parents in some places.

AGDee · #44 11-12-2006, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

I'm not harping on you, but what do you do then? This whole discussion is complete horse shit. Should we all just stay as far away from our friends and fraternity brothers as possible? I mean, what do you do?? Kick guys out of your home when there are too many SAE's there? Leave a bar because more than 3 or 4 of your brothers are in the same room? That is ridiculous.

I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just pointing out that it's happening. I think the only recourse is to try to take care of your brothers or sisters. Keep an eye out for them, don't let them drink til they have alcohol poisoning, don't let them put themselves in dangerous situations, especially when drinking. Watch out for each other, take care of each other and BE CAREFUL. That's ultimately what Risk Management means.

macallan25 · #45 11-13-2006, 12:42 AM

I agree totally.