Central Falls, RI fires every teacher in HS

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

*standing ovation*

I know that this is slightly off topic, and maybe it needs to be a spin-off, but I firmly believe in bilingual education rather than ESL/ELL programs. Primarily because I've never met an ESL teacher who actually spoke Spanish fluently.

I mean.... yes, the kids are in America, but it's so much better for them if they learn to read and write in Spanish and English. One thing I encountered with several immigrant families when I was a teacher is that just because a school system translates documents into Spanish for families doesn't mean they're actually literate in Spanish. Ya dig? I think these students are poised to have a gift of fluency in both English and Spanish if we cultivate it.

I don't know.

And I don't know how Rhode Island exploded with Spanish speaking immigrants any more than DC did. I am a minority in what was once an all-black neighborhood.

This makes sense if your basic population is made up of Spanish or English speakers, but depending on where you are, ELL/ESL could be supporting kids speaking a bunch of different languages.

And you're right that one of the big problems particularly with older kids is that they never really had high levels of literacy in their first language.

The downside of doing bilingual ed seems to be in the actual practice, as it frequently is implemented. (Or so I've heard/read) Instead of building skills in both, they seems to stay kind of weak and the program ends up being kind of a track to nowhere. (Not that it would have to be, and I'm sure it's not everywhere.)

[DolphinChicaDDD]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

Hmm where to start on my comments....

Someone mentioned the teachers wanting a higher salary and that they shouldn't even be asking for it in this economy. No offense, but are you effin kidding me! So just because I'm a teacher and the economy sucks, I should demand the respect and pay I deserve for my profession? I don't think so. Until you have stepped into the shoes of a teacher, you don't understand what teacher has to put up with. You may think you do because you have friends or family members who are teachers, but you will never truly understand until you've walked a mile in our shoes.

In today's society and because of NCLB teachers are BLAMED for EVERYTHING. It's OUR FAULT that the kids test scores suck. It's OUR FAULT that their grades suck. It's OUR FAULT that the kids don't graduate. It's OUR FAULT that the kids don't speak English. No offense, but when the hell did all these problems (and thensome) because my fault as a teacher?

I've taught in low-income, predominately Hispanic (like 80%) and of that 80% Hispanic, I would say 50-60% are ESL students. I CANNOT make a child learn English. I CANNOT force the parents to learn English and therefore help their child. I CANNOT make the parents actually give a crap about their child's education. I can only do so much!!!!!

When did it become the teachers fault for everything?

When is some of the responsibility going to fall on the student and the parents? I'm guessing when hell freezes over. We live in a society were absolutely no blame falls onto the student. We live in a society where personal responsibility isn't taught and accepted.

As for the firing of all the teachers, it's not going to fix anything. The superintendent and the board are stupid as hell if they think that getting all new teachers will "magically fix" the problem. The district obviously has many problems, but a whole new staff isn't going to fix it. In fact, I'd bet my bottom dollar that if the district decides to fire them all, that their test scores will plummet next year.

Well said. Particularly the bolded part. When I moved abroad and started teaching in a private, well off school I was surprised by how much more areas and depth I can cover my curriculum. Right off the bat, I don't spend my time having to discipline or stop every 5 minutes to remind students that books are not weapons or something. When the parents are supportive and encourage their children, it is amazing what can be done. For the first time, the teacher-student-parent relationship is working as it should. Generally, it takes one email or phone call to the parent to tell them the child missed an assignment or has slipping grades and the problem is solved. 75% of the time back in the States, I couldn't even get a working number for a parent and if I did, it was a toss up if the parent even cared. Not to say there are zero problems in my classroom/school, because student responsibility is still an issue, but when parents are active and care about their child's education the difference is astounding.

I'd be surprised if they will fill all the spots next year. There will be a few people who apply, but personally, I wouldn't apply to work in a district where I could just be fired at will. If RI is anything like the job market my friends have back in Jersey, the teachers who are desperate for jobs (elementary, history, English) will fill, but those teachers who have other options because they are high demand areas (math, science, special education) will not apply.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

This makes sense if your basic population is made up of Spanish or English speakers, but depending on where you are, ELL/ESL could be supporting kids speaking a bunch of different languages.

And you're right that one of the big problems particularly with older kids is that they never really had high levels of literacy in their first language.

The downside of doing bilingual ed seems to be in the actual practice, as it frequently is implemented. (Or so I've heard/read) Instead of building skills in both, they seems to stay kind of weak and the program ends up being kind of a track to nowhere. (Not that it would have to be, and I'm sure it's not everywhere.)

I myself have read/heard nothing positive about bilingual Ed here in south TX. The biggest thing being the teachers give up on the Bi part and end up teaching 95% of the classes in spanish.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

This makes sense if your basic population is made up of Spanish or English speakers, but depending on where you are, ELL/ESL could be supporting kids speaking a bunch of different languages.

Exactly. Currently, my classes (I am an ESL teacher) have the following languages: Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean, Spanish, Turkish, Farsi, Russian, Hebrew, Gujarati (a Hindi dialect), and Kurdish. Plus, the Spanish kids are from different areas: Mexico, Guatemala, Chile, Peru, and Panama. Their Spanish may basically be the same, but they -especially the ones from South America - have different words.

Don't get me started on the fact that I have one Deaf Ed student from Turkey. This poor kid is trying to learn both English and American Sign Language at the same time.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by s1lvar

70% of blacks are born out of wedlock.

Even if that is true, what does it have to do with anything?

[Psi U MC Vito]

Um unmarried parents =/= one parent.

[KSig RC]

Not to take a dump on the thread, but while a student's performance surely cannot be assigned wholly to one specific teacher, a student that performs terribly can probably be used as an indictment of the student's education as a whole, no?

And that education is primarily provided by three sources: teachers/class work, friend groups/experiences, and parents/self-directed learning. My understanding is not 100% on the bleeding edge, but I believe that learning in youths is generally considered to be implemented/affected in that order, as well.

So this logic seems pretty clear to me: when entire districts suck, the teachers and administrators (who seem to somehow avoid responsibility even though they are 'management' in this instance, which is baffling) are likely in large part to blame, no? After all, it is the one consistent in our triumvirate model of learning, across the board.

I get why teachers hate NCLB, and I get that teachers are woefully underpaid in many parts of the country, and I get that the job is exceptionally hard and takes a strong toll. I just don't get this constant shifting of blame, and why outside-the-box tactics get shouted down, even by teachers who hate the 'box' (system) anyway.

[UGAalum94]

I think outside the box stuff gets shouted down frequently when it's advocated by the people who created and maintained the box in the first place.

I think a lot of us feel pretty good about our own innovation but don't enjoy being compelled to embrace a new system by our overlords.

But I think that something in the RI situation had to change, and I'd really like to know more about what the teachers wanted to try.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Not to take a dump on the thread, but while a student's performance surely cannot be assigned wholly to one specific teacher, a student that performs terribly can probably be used as an indictment of the student's education as a whole, no?

And that education is primarily provided by three sources: teachers/class work, friend groups/experiences, and parents/self-directed learning. My understanding is not 100% on the bleeding edge, but I believe that learning in youths is generally considered to be implemented/affected in that order, as well.

So this logic seems pretty clear to me: when entire districts suck, the teachers and administrators (who seem to somehow avoid responsibility even though they are 'management' in this instance, which is baffling) are likely in large part to blame, no? After all, it is the one consistent in our triumvirate model of learning, across the board.

I get why teachers hate NCLB, and I get that teachers are woefully underpaid in many parts of the country, and I get that the job is exceptionally hard and takes a strong toll. I just don't get this constant shifting of blame, and why outside-the-box tactics get shouted down, even by teachers who hate the 'box' (system) anyway.

To put it extraordinarily succinctly (in my opinion) by the time a failing child makes it to high school, it's the elementary school teachers who need to be fired.

There are way too many opportunities to correct a child's deficiencies from Kindergarten to 5th grade, or whatever your local jurisdiction defines as elementary ed.

I've worked in a failing school. They did all need to be fired, but they weren't. Goes back to what I said earlier about the chief academic officer of a school needing to be a different person from the chief executive.