2008 NCAA Football - Page 22

Kevin · #1 12-07-2008, 01:40 AM

I really don't see how Tebow can make an argument with his numbers being what they are -- especially compared to last year and especially considering the numbers they put up in the Big XII.

I think it's between Bradford and McCoy.

CrackerBarrel · #2 12-07-2008, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

I really don't see how Tebow can make an argument with his numbers being what they are -- especially compared to last year and especially considering the numbers they put up in the Big XII.

I think it's between Bradford and McCoy.

The argument against Bradford and McCoy is that everyone in the Big XII put up those kind of numbers, good teams or not. That suggests something other than great offensive years (namely a terrible defensive year for the conference as a whole). If I had to pick between the two I think McCoy has a much better argument than Bradford though, he's done more with less around him and his growth into somehow being a running QB this year was impressive. I think Tebow's leadership puts him into the running though, and carrying Florida without Harvin today against a significantly better D than anything in the Big XII (I think Texas is the best in the conference at 50 vs. Bama at 3) gave him a shot at it. If I had to vote I would say Tebow, McCoy, Bradford/Harrell (they are essentially interchangable IMO), but a lot of that does have to do with the appearance that no one in the Big XII plays a lick of defense this season. Essentially everyone in the conference is the same kind of system QB that was the argument against Harrell and Brennan last year.

Kevin · #3 12-07-2008, 04:29 AM

Typical SECist argument really. The counter, of course, and I'm sure you've heard it, is that the SEC has completely awful offenses, so, of course, the defensive stats will be better.

The only head to head we have is UT v. Arkansas. If you'll recall, Arkansas was routed 52-10 (how's that for some SEC defensive football?). That terrible Arkansas team went on to play the rest of the weak SEC in a very competitive way, losing a lot of games, but every single one of them was close.

As for McCoy doing more with less, a great quarterback makes the players around him great by putting the ball where it needs to be. Bradford has done just that and he's the spark of the best offense in NCAA history (discounting the teams of the 19th century). Bradford also will set the record this season for being the most efficient passer of all time.

At any rate, the SEC is having a really bad down year. They have awful offensive play except for Florida. That does not make the defenses better (Auburn? Arkansas? LSU? Come on, they're all pretty bad).

The SEC hasn't done that much better in bowl games than any other conference... in fact, they don't have any reason to say they're any better than anyone this year.

You can't really say Bradford is a system QB. His performance vs. those before him is not even really comparable. Also, if it's a "system" that can produce ridiculous yards and scores, as OU does, why doesn't everyone run that system? Not enough Bradfords to go around I guess. Also, if you're wanting to talk about the head to head -- Bradford v. McCoy, Bradford actually had better numbers at OU-TX, tossing 5 TD's versus 2 interceptions (one coming on a hail mary at the end of the game).

The fact is that there is very little to go on re: SEC vs. Big XII. The SEC is not better than the Big XII, especially the Big XII South. Top to bottom, at least in 2008, I think the Big XII would dominate the SEC due to the horrendous quarterback play in the SEC.

CrackerBarrel · #4 12-07-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

The fact is that there is very little to go on re: SEC vs. Big XII. The SEC is not better than the Big XII, especially the Big XII South. Top to bottom, at least in 2008, I think the Big XII would dominate the SEC due to the horrendous quarterback play in the SEC.

I think Florida is a good bit better than OU (and I think they'll prove that). Bama is about even with Texas, then there's the mismatch of the third best SEC team is probably Ole Miss vs. TTech (advantage Big XII I would certainly think, but that will probably be the Cotton Bowl matchup, so we'll see). Georgia is about the equal of OSU and better than Mizzou and Nebraska. LSU is about equal to Kansas. Nebraska and Mizzou are probably better than SC and Vandy. The bottom of the conference the SEC picks back up though, because Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Auburn and MSU are worlds better than Baylor, A&M, Colorado, KState and Iowa State.

I think at the very top team the SEC is better, about equal for second, Big XII wins the middle and SEC wins the bottom.

Kevin · #5 12-07-2008, 05:14 PM

[quote=CrackerBarrel;1752220]Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Auburn and MSU are worlds better than Baylor, A&M, Colorado, KState and Iowa State.

Based on what? Every one of those SEC teams suffers from awful QB play. So egregiously bad, in fact, that half of those teams fired their coaches. Colorado went on the road and beat West Virginia; A&M is awful, I'll give yo u that, more awful than Auburn though? I don't think so. Worse tahn Tennessee? Heck no. Tennessee is damn bad; KState is as good as KY or Tenn this year, Iowa State, yep, they're bad, but could probably beat MSU; and then there's Baylor. With #10, Baylor is a different team. They'd probably have been competitive against teams like LSU and Arkie this year.

Quote:

I think at the very top team the SEC is better, about equal for second, Big XII wins the middle and SEC wins the bottom.

Georgia is enormously overrated, so that leaves you with Bama and Florida, both of whom have middle of the road defenses and decent offenses. I think Oklahoma State would eviscerate Georgia.. and I hope the BCS puts Bama in the Fiesta.

CrackerBarrel · #6 12-07-2008, 12:15 PM

Which doesn't address the fact that there are at least 6 quarterbacks in the Big XII with similar numbers. There is nothing to suggest that the 6 best quarterbacks in the country play in the same conference including some at schools that aren't any good. I think Bradford and McCoy are both very good, but there's a reason that if you needed to win one game and had your choice of any one player in America to build your offense around, the vast majority would pick Tebow.

That point should be illustrated with the fact that Baylor, A&M and KState all have QBs ranked better than 35th nationally for passing efficiency. There are no good players on their teams for them to throw the ball to, they lose every game they play, yet they can still pick defenses apart better than 3/4 of the country and have QB ratings over 135? That's a joke.

There's also a reason Tebow joked last night that he didn't know who he would vote first on his Heisman ballot yet, but that he'd sure like to get the chance to throw the ball around some against those Big XII defenses. I watch plenty of college football, the Big XII you see quarterbacks with all day to throw the ball and receivers 4 yards away from DBs. There are two possible explanations. Either every team in the Big XII has one of the greatest offensive units ever assembled, or the defenses are pretty terrible. The average Big XII pass D is ranked 75th. So I'm going to go with the pretty terrible defense choice.

KSigkid · #7 12-07-2008, 12:33 PM

Thanks everyone for the info. I consider myself pretty well-versed in other sports (especially baseball, and to a somewhat lesser degree pro football, college basketball and pro basketball), but I've just really started getting more into college football the past few years. KSigRC (who is very knowledgeable about college football) has been able to explain quite a bit of the deeper stuff to me, but I'm still very much in the learning process, so to speak.

For what it's worth, I was looking at Football Outsiders (a football site similar to Baseball Prospectus), and they had an interesting conference breakdown: http://footballoutsiders.com/varsity...nce-breakdowns.

ETA: It's funny seeing UConn have one of the top two pass defenses in that story, and then watching them give up two long pass plays yesterday where the receiver was essentially by himself.

srmom · #8 12-08-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Did you guys see the Army/Navy game? I like Army's uniforms. It's pretty cool with the camouflage on the helmet, on the pants, and on the numbers. And it says, "Duty. Honor. Country." on the back.

I have to give a shout out to Army and the class they display.

I went to the Army/Rice game (my best friend's son is a defensive player for Rice), and after the game, the Rice faithful - players and fans went and stood behind the Army team at the end of the game to hear their school song, and then after that, the entire Army team came and stood with the Rice team while their song was being played. They then walked through the crowd and shook hands with the fans thanking them for coming to the game.

In all the years that I have been attending football games, I have never seen such a display of class and sportsmanship. I was very impressed and proud that these young men represent our country.

Now, on to football -

GO GATORS!!!!

ISUKappa · #9 12-13-2008, 12:31 AM

The scuttlebutt on the Cyclone messageboards is that Chizik is leaving as head coach to take the position at Auburn.

I mean, I know we're not attractive to a head coach for the long term, but it would have been nice to have a little stability for a few years. Now we get to start all over again.

Kevin · #10 12-13-2008, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

The scuttlebutt on the Cyclone messageboards is that Chizik is leaving as head coach to take the position at Auburn.

I mean, I know we're not attractive to a head coach for the long term, but it would have been nice to have a little stability for a few years. Now we get to start all over again.

Your A.D. deserves to be fired for letting go of McCarney (however you spell his name).

sthrnsweetie007 · #11 12-13-2008, 12:50 AM

If Tim Tebow wins the Heisman tomorrow... I think I might cry. ugh

FratBrah · #12 12-13-2008, 01:31 AM

Is anyone else irritated by Sam Bradford?

I see why Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow were invited, and would have no problem with either of them winning the Heisman. But Bradford and Harrell are so similar to me, seems like Harrell should've gotten more votes. They're the same type of QB and if I'm not mistaken, Harrell has the better stats.
Plus Bradford came off like a complete tool when he was interviewed after the Missouri game.

Hope the Gators kick his ass. (Bob Stoops' too!)