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  #316  
Old 11-10-2004, 01:09 AM
SigmaChiCard SigmaChiCard is offline
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preciousjeni you beat me to that one.

comparing 'making people be gay' v. 'making blacks be less'? Um..I think its either whether whites made blacks be blacks....and i don't think that is a very good/worthwhile comparison...or whether it's 'making gays be less.' at least compare like terms.
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  #317  
Old 11-10-2004, 08:04 AM
Shortfuse Shortfuse is offline
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Homosexuality is very immoral in most religions but I will say this.

The arguement that it destroys core family values is crazy at best. Divorce destroys so much more than anything else.
Finally, how does it destroy your family values? I mean what two people do with their lives can't possibly bother you that much can it? Homosexuality has been around for HUNDREDS of YEARS. Help me out here.
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  #318  
Old 11-10-2004, 10:18 AM
Exquisite5 Exquisite5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaChiCard
preciousjeni you beat me to that one.

comparing 'making people be gay' v. 'making blacks be less'? Um..I think its either whether whites made blacks be blacks....and i don't think that is a very good/worthwhile comparison...or whether it's 'making gays be less.' at least compare like terms.

I had decided to leave this thread alone becaue I have no proplem agreeing to disagree and this issue is just not that something I care that much about.

However, I wanted to clarify the point I was trying to make since I was told what to do: "at least compare like terms."

My purpose was not to compare "making people gay" vs. "making people black." My goal was to highlight the social constructions behind the stigma that was attached to each.

It has been said that simply being different was embarrasing. What I was trying to say is that because of slavery and Jim Crow this racism and stigma associated with being a Black American was born out of the nation's past and purposeful actions.

In contrast, if any stigma exists at all regarding being gay it is highly personal and is born out citizen's personal beliefs/morals. The government did not bring homosexuals here and enslave them. They have never been out and out legally subjugated.

My point being, it was not being different, being Black, that was embarrasing that lead to the integration of schools- nor was it simply going to separate schools that was embarrasng or stigmatizing. The issue is why it was embarrasing. It was embarrassing because the nation's history for over 300 years purposely set out to subjugate and stigmatize Blacks.

What I was trying to say is that no one has purposely set out to purposefully subjugate and stigmatize homosexuals for 300 years. If people would read the case Brown v. Board of Education before they talk about it and attempt to quote it they would know that because the stigma associated with racial separation as demonstrated through statistics had such a profound affect on the minds of young Black children the Court held that "in the field of public education the doctrine of separate but equal has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. " 347 U.S. 483, 497 (1954). Racial segregation was overturned, in part, because statistics supported the determination that simply being a part caused psychological harm in the children due to the reason cultivated by the US over 300 years that they were being separated for.

Many pundits agree that the reason
Brown overturned Plessy was because it involved harming children: that is not an issue in gay marriage. ETA: Even the most racist of the racist might have a soft spot in their hearts for purposefuly causing mental anguish in tiny, blameless children. Many agree that Brown would not have had the same holding had it involed segregatin adults.

Also, in many instance (if not all) Courts did not end Jim Crow. The social change which integrated busses and got rid of water fountains ocurred through civil disobedience. The integration which did occur via the Courts really came through the legislature as Congress passed laws under their Commerce Clause power which gives Congress authority over instertate commerce which required restaurants and hotels to integrate. The laws were passed by Congress and the Court either upheld them or struck them down under the Commerce Clause, but those changes were not based on Brown . I just pointed that out because someone earlier said that Brown lead to integration of water fountaind and such, when in actuality, Brown motivated AfAms to go after the rest of the rights they desired, but many other legal methods were used to secure Civil Rights.

So, I wasn't saying the issue was making people gay v. making people less. What I was saying is subtely different and if you simply read to identify weaknesses and attack them, but not to internalize and reflect on what the author is saying you will miss it. Civil Rights law is not easy stuff. Ask me, as someone studying it this semester...I know.

Last edited by Exquisite5; 11-10-2004 at 11:43 AM.
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  #319  
Old 11-10-2004, 03:31 PM
SummerChild SummerChild is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Exquisite5

If people would read the case Brown v. Board of Education before they talk about it and attempt to quote it they would know that because the stigma associated with racial separation as demonstrated through statistics had such a profound affect on the minds of young Black children the Court held that "in the field of public education the doctrine of separate but equal has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. " 347 U.S. 483, 497 (1954).
Go on with your citation! LOL
I'm going to have to check your bluebooking though. It's looking a little loose.

Just teasing,

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  #320  
Old 11-10-2004, 05:37 PM
Exquisite5 Exquisite5 is offline
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Lol!
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  #321  
Old 11-11-2004, 07:26 PM
SigmaChiCard SigmaChiCard is offline
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we are law school nerds....i was thinking the same thing...no parallel citations?
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Last edited by SigmaChiCard; 11-11-2004 at 07:29 PM.
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  #322  
Old 11-11-2004, 07:58 PM
Exquisite5 Exquisite5 is offline
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Ha!

Right about know because of law journal I am so sick to death of citations and blue booking y'all are lucky you got what you got from me.

I only put a cite so the non-lawyers/law students could look up Brown , one of, if not the most important cases of our generation and read it.

However, this thread has proven very good studying for my Consitutional Law II final in 25 days.
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  #323  
Old 11-11-2004, 08:15 PM
SummerChild SummerChild is offline
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Good luck on your exam!

Quote:
Originally posted by Exquisite5
Ha!

Right about know because of law journal I am so sick to death of citations and blue booking y'all are lucky you got what you got from me.

I only put a cite so the non-lawyers/law students could look up Brown , one of, if not the most important cases of our generation and read it.

However, this thread has proven very good studying for my Consitutional Law II final in 25 days.
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  #324  
Old 11-11-2004, 11:41 PM
Exquisite5 Exquisite5 is offline
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Thanks!


Now, everyone else speak up- what is your answer to the homosexual marriage question?
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  #325  
Old 10-28-2006, 06:12 AM
burgertown burgertown is offline
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I dont think people that "choose" the homosexual lifestyle should be allowed to marry or honestly are allowed to marry because according to my beliefs and those of other christians God sees marriage as between a man and woman. Seperation of church and state is still in effect so the gov. couldnt this decision. Anyway, we have no right to change the bible and any preachers/pastors who are marrying these people are wrong. Thats just my thoughts though. . .
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  #326  
Old 10-29-2006, 11:46 AM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Originally Posted by burgertown View Post
I dont think people that "choose" the homosexual lifestyle should be allowed to marry or honestly are allowed to marry because according to my beliefs and those of other christians God sees marriage as between a man and woman. Seperation of church and state is still in effect so the gov. couldnt this decision. Anyway, we have no right to change the bible and any preachers/pastors who are marrying these people are wrong. Thats just my thoughts though. . .

A few small points, just for you to think about.
1) did you "choose" to like members of the opposite sex
2)However God views marriage, we're not discussing religious marriage, we're discussing civil marriage. They're seperate, ala that church and state thing.
3) Such a decision thus, does not affect the Bible (there's no Adam and Steve) because it doesn't affect what church's do.
4) If every couple (gay or straight) went to the state to get their civil union certificate and to the church to get married would you feel differently about allowing gay couples to get civil unions?
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Last edited by Drolefille; 10-29-2006 at 11:53 AM.
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  #327  
Old 10-29-2006, 07:12 PM
shinerbock shinerbock is offline
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Off topic, but on the choose/birth debate, just because you may have certain tendencies or feelings, doesn't mean its automatically ok to partake in them. I'm sure pedophiles don't choose to be pedophiles...Granted, I'm not really comparing gays to pedophiles, but simply because it may not be a choice, doesn't automatically qualify it as something that should be accepted.
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  #328  
Old 10-30-2006, 01:31 AM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Originally Posted by shinerbock View Post
Off topic, but on the choose/birth debate, just because you may have certain tendencies or feelings, doesn't mean its automatically ok to partake in them. I'm sure pedophiles don't choose to be pedophiles...Granted, I'm not really comparing gays to pedophiles, but simply because it may not be a choice, doesn't automatically qualify it as something that should be accepted.
I see what you're saying, but I really don't have a problem with two consenting adults getting it on. I make the point because we always assume that the "other" person is making a choice even though we didn't make one ourselves.

As to not acting on it, I'm a bit of a libertarian... it's not hurting anyone/anything so have at it. Pedophilia/beastiality are not between consenting adults and are harmful.
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  #329  
Old 10-30-2006, 09:51 AM
shinerbock shinerbock is offline
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Drole, and I'm not really taking a position, I'm just pointing out that the whole "they can't help it" thing isn't really the best legitimate defense for homosexuality. There are also people who would say homosexual relationships are more dangerous than heterosexual relationships, but I don't know that theres anyway of proving/disproving that at this point.
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  #330  
Old 10-30-2006, 10:25 AM
Drolefille Drolefille is offline
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Originally Posted by shinerbock View Post
Drole, and I'm not really taking a position, I'm just pointing out that the whole "they can't help it" thing isn't really the best legitimate defense for homosexuality. There are also people who would say homosexual relationships are more dangerous than heterosexual relationships, but I don't know that theres anyway of proving/disproving that at this point.
I know you're not, I was just responding
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