Indiana University 2014 Recruitment

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by cinder1965

Every sorority is different, but even if you have established the fees, it doesn't mean you have to allow live outs. At least with my chapter, it isn't approved just because a member wants to. There are specific processes to go through to get a live out approved. Maybe most chapters at IU simply don't approve them.

Chapters that officially don't allow live outs may allow live-outs for reasons like medical issues that prevent someone from living in or marriage, which is to say, things so rare they really don't affect rush/bed quota, but the policies exist anyway.

[cinder1965]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Chapters that officially don't allow live outs may allow live-outs for reasons like medical issues that prevent someone from living in or marriage, which is to say, things so rare they really don't affect rush/bed quota, but the policies exist anyway.

Yep. The Purdue chapters allow live outs if the house is full. Usually is because we use the RFM method (or whatever mits called) so most seniors live out. Our Panhel just raised total quota again so 10 houses have to do spring recruitment to pick up a few girls to meet it so we often need girls to live out.

[Titchou]

I have no clue how this got slanted to house corporations being an issue. If there are 100 beds in the house and 100 members or 300 members, there are ways to insure the house is filled. That argument holds no water.

The problem is that Greek life is very popular these days. So the number of PNMs goes up. Other schools have learned how to accomodate that - note the number of new Greek villages and the explosion of houses at Alabama, etc. Indiana refuses to adapt. That's the bottom line. Their President needs to step in if PH won't do it on their own.

[cinder1965]

Originally Posted by Titchou

I have no clue how this got slanted to house corporations being an issue. If there are 100 beds in the house and 100 members or 300 members, there are ways to insure the house is filled. That argument holds no water.

The problem is that Greek life is very popular these days. So the number of PNMs goes up. Other schools have learned how to accomodate that - note the number of new Greek villages and the explosion of houses at Alabama, etc. Indiana refuses to adapt. That's the bottom line. Their President needs to step in if PH won't do it on their own.

So agree, I stated earlier...we have live outs and have had no problem keeping our house filled. The housing corp board has to manage it and make sure all of the numbers add up, etc. but as I said before, it is NOT brain surgery.

[Hoosierxgirl]

Maybe this is the wrong time to bring this up but I've been thinking today about what adding 20-30 more women to my pledge class would have done to my experience. I'm sure it would've been mostly positive - more women to get to know, more diversity, etc. Then I started to think about all the logistics - risk management, planning events, etc. Even silly things like chapter meetings. Where would we put another 70-100 girls (if each pledge class was increased)? Would it be responsible to have our risk management chair and Exec board in charge of another 100 women? Some of the chapters at IU are already some of the largest chapters of their respective GLO - I just wonder if the current infrastructure of our chapters would be able to support a dramatic increase in membership. I guess it would be done over time but I think these are considerations that need to be made. I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that a lot of resistance to change at IU is because of the exclusivity factor of recruitment - if you happen to make it through the Games, you consider yourself a survivor and expect the same selection process of future pledge classes.

Like I said before, I know how heartbreaking this process is. It's not fair but I also don't know how much else can be done to expand the current size of chapters under a quota system.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Hoosierxgirl

Some of the chapters at IU are already some of the largest chapters of their respective GLO

I...can't think of a single chapter for which that is true.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by Hoosierxgirl

I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that a lot of resistance to change at IU is because of the exclusivity factor of recruitment - if you happen to make it through the Games, you consider yourself a survivor and expect the same selection process of future pledge classes.

:

[Hoosierxgirl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I...can't think of a single chapter for which that is true.

I can't claim this as a fact but it's something I heard when I went through recruitment (as in chapters claimed this fact). If they are not the LARGEST, they are certainly on the larger side. What I'm saying is that the physical houses themselves may not be conducive to holding a chapter meeting or sisterhood event for 200 women. (This is purely anecdotal on my end...we barely fit our current chapter in the dining room for chapter or formal dinners). I also think of all the things that we did that would not be doable with 100 additional women - the logistics, the time, the stress - all of it takes time away from studying, other activities, etc. Maybe it's doable - I don't know. I just think it's a point of consideration.

Originally Posted by carnation

:

I'm not saying this is my view but it is certainly a popular view at IU.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by Hoosierxgirl

Maybe this is the wrong time to bring this up but I've been thinking today about what adding 20-30 more women to my pledge class would have done to my experience. I'm sure it would've been mostly positive - more women to get to know, more diversity, etc. Then I started to think about all the logistics - risk management, planning events, etc. Even silly things like chapter meetings. Where would we put another 70-100 girls (if each pledge class was increased)? Would it be responsible to have our risk management chair and Exec board in charge of another 100 women? Some of the chapters at IU are already some of the largest chapters of their respective GLO - I just wonder if the current infrastructure of our chapters would be able to support a dramatic increase in membership. I guess it would be done over time but I think these are considerations that need to be made. I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that a lot of resistance to change at IU is because of the exclusivity factor of recruitment - if you happen to make it through the Games, you consider yourself a survivor and expect the same selection process of future pledge classes.

Like I said before, I know how heartbreaking this process is. It's not fair but I also don't know how much else can be done to expand the current size of chapters under a quota system.

I have to say I am starting to get a little peeved at people saying the sisterhood isn't as good because of bigger pledge classes. So yeah - some of our families are bigger, doesn't mean you love your sisters less or have less love to go around.

Come on down any time and we can show you how logistics works. You don't have one person in charge of putting together events - you have a committee. Then you aren't dependent on just one person who could get sick the day before recruitment.

You don't have formal at a tiny hotel or in the student union, you have it at a event center, the Fox Theater, or the country club like a benefit or a fundraiser. We don't drive places, we take a bus.

We get it. You like exclusivity, and you like looking down your noses at people. (BTW - Texas A&M, U. Texas, The Ohio State, Penn State, Florida - are all bigger than IUB AND have flourishing Greek life AND they rank higher too.)

[Hoosierxgirl]

Originally Posted by HQWest

I have to say I am starting to get a little peeved at people saying the sisterhood isn't as good because of bigger pledge classes. So yeah - some of our families are bigger, doesn't mean you love your sisters less or have less love to go around.

Come on down any time and we can show you how logistics works. You don't have one person in charge of putting together events - you have a committee. Then you aren't dependent on just one person who could get sick the day before recruitment.

You don't have formal at a tiny hotel or in the student union, you have it at a event center, the Fox Theater, or the country club like a benefit or a fundraiser. We don't drive places, we take a bus.

We get it. You like exclusivity, and you like looking down your noses at people. (BTW - Texas A&M, U. Texas, The Ohio State, Penn State, Florida - are all bigger than IUB AND have flourishing Greek life AND they rank higher too.)

Whoa whoa whoa...I NEVER said anything about how good or bad a sisterhood would be. Big or small. In fact, I said the experience would be mostly positive.

I am saying that it would be a large adjustment and that the logistics would be harder to overcome for a system that isn't used to such large chapters (I tend to think 150 women is pretty large) I think we already do many of things you just described (event centers, buses, committees, etc.) as well.

I'm not saying it can't be done or it shouldn't be done. I'm just pointing out one little reason why suddenly switching to a quota system would be hard.

And again, I'm not turning my nose up at anyone. I'm pointing out a popular opinion that has been raised in my time at IU. I do not condone that opinion nor do I claim to hold it.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by Hoosierxgirl

Whoa whoa whoa...I NEVER said anything about how good or bad a sisterhood would be. Big or small. In fact, I said the experience would be mostly positive.

I am saying that it would be a large adjustment and that the logistics would be harder to overcome for a system that isn't used to such large chapters (I tend to think 150 women is pretty large) I think we already do many of things you just described (event centers, buses, committees, etc.) as well.

I'm not saying it can't be done or it shouldn't be done. I'm just pointing out one little reason why suddenly switching to a quota system would be hard.

And again, I'm not turning my nose up at anyone. I'm pointing out a popular opinion that has been raised in my time at IU. I do not condone that opinion nor do I claim to hold it.

Mostly positive is by definition not positive.
And just because it is different then your experience does not mean it could not be as good or better.

[Hoosierxgirl]

Originally Posted by HQWest

Mostly positive is by definition not positive.
And just because it is different then your experience does not mean it could not be as good or better.

I never said that. Once again I am making clearly that these are not MY opinions. These are things that have been brought up many people in the Greek System and contribute to why this system hasn't changed in 30+ years.

I know the process is flawed and I know it needs to be changed. When I was a Rho Gamma, it broke my heart that almost half of my group didn't receive bids. Especially because I knew most of them would have made very positive additions to the Greek System. It also broke my heart that my sister and I were the only women from our dorm floor to get bids - and we were both CORs. It's awful for everyone involved.

I think many of your have excellent points and the further removed I get from the IU recruitment process, the more I see the issues. I think we can all agree that something needs to be and that is going to take a huge shift in attitude and culture.

[Griffins&Quills]

Originally Posted by HQWest

I have to say I am starting to get a little peeved at people saying the sisterhood isn't as good because of bigger pledge classes. So yeah - some of our families are bigger, doesn't mean you love your sisters less or have less love to go around.

Come on down any time and we can show you how logistics works. You don't have one person in charge of putting together events - you have a committee. Then you aren't dependent on just one person who could get sick the day before recruitment.

You don't have formal at a tiny hotel or in the student union, you have it at a event center, the Fox Theater, or the country club like a benefit or a fundraiser. We don't drive places, we take a bus.

We get it. You like exclusivity, and you like looking down your noses at people. (BTW - Texas A&M, U. Texas, The Ohio State, Penn State, Florida - are all bigger than IUB AND have flourishing Greek life AND they rank higher too.)

This. All of this! I've just been following this thread, but I agree completely. My campus has 7 groups and our total is at 164 and we have more girls rushing each year and are taking larger pledge classes, further increasing total. We operate normally. People can choose to live in the house, or not. There is no required time to live in. Members get charged parlor fees. We meet for chapter in a lecture hall every week. We have events. We have formal at aforementioned large venues, and we take buses. Our Chapter Life handles the Risk Management issues. It's not Alabama, but it's competitive in it's own way. And further, my sorority, our sororities, are plenty close. I know the name and details of every single one of my sisters. More sisters doesn't equal less closeness. And a forced live-in policy also doesn't equal closeness. Everyone else manages to make it work. While I respect that I haven't experienced IU, the posters making blanket statements about well, pretty much every other school, also haven't experienced our cultures. Don't think your way is the only way. It's not.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by Hoosierxgirl

Maybe this is the wrong time to bring this up but I've been thinking today about what adding 20-30 more women to my pledge class would have done to my experience. I'm sure it would've been mostly positive - more women to get to know, more diversity, etc. Then I started to think about all the logistics - risk management, planning events, etc. Even silly things like chapter meetings. Where would we put another 70-100 girls (if each pledge class was increased)? Would it be responsible to have our risk management chair and Exec board in charge of another 100 women? Some of the chapters at IU are already some of the largest chapters of their respective GLO - I just wonder if the current infrastructure of our chapters would be able to support a dramatic increase in membership. I guess it would be done over time but I think these are considerations that need to be made. I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that a lot of resistance to change at IU is because of the exclusivity factor of recruitment - if you happen to make it through the Games, you consider yourself a survivor and expect the same selection process of future pledge classes.

Like I said before, I know how heartbreaking this process is. It's not fair but I also don't know how much else can be done to expand the current size of chapters under a quota system.

QFP
(and also in post #366)

[Dtjb]

It just makes no sense to me. Everyone wants every girl to get a bid? Where does that happen? Second, I'm defending the idea that something that is competitive is not easy and not always unfair. Does everyone get THE job? Does everyone get into pt school, or the graduate program they want? No-it's competitive, selective, and makes something more desire able and something special. If you want to read it as "I don't think your experience was special" then that's your choice. But it is real life. If all that matters is everyone gets a spot then girls have to go somewhere where they just sign up and get assigned a spot. If there are 2,000 girls and 2,000 spaces it still wouldn't happen bc moms are saying their daughters don't want the unhoused chapters bc they're not "good enough" and yet they want a place for everyone. What they are saying is they want every girl to get what they consider to be a "good house". Well, if they think it's a "good house", chances are so do lots of other girls and so it's competitive and harder to get in. If it wasn't would their daughters want to be in it so badly? If every freshman that decided they wanted to be an ABC, could easily just sign up and become one would it be coveted? I just don't get the mentality of "all girls should get in if they want". That's unrealistic and impossible anywhere for anything.