Hazing creates a sense of unity

[stormy]

Hazing doesn't need to include pledges being beaten, but it shouldn't just be stupid little projects and ice breakers the whole time. I agree that you have to "EARN YOUR LETTERS." If all I had to do was sew and sing songs to get into a sorority, then there wouldn't have been any thrill in choosing to join in the first place. You can do those types of things with any of your friends.

I carefully read what EVERYONE had to say before I decided to speak my mind. So here's the disclaimer: My organization does not haze nor haveI been hazed in any way. I would go through my new member process again if I had to. Now having said that, I ask this REALLY what is hazing?

As an undergrauate, I dormed with some ladies that belonged to another GLO and there was always a room filled with arts and crafts. The pledges mad cute little name tags adorned with glitter and hung them from our door every week. Is that hazing?

Standing up in a room full of sisters and greeting them by name one by one... is that hazing?

I've also heard of pledges interviewing active members of the chapter, and being quizzed on the answers later. The interviews I don't think are bad. The quizzes... uncomfortable, but is that hazing?

Is calling some one your "BIG" hazing? Do you know that some orgs on my campus couldn't refer to their Bigs as such in fear that they would be brought up on charges of hazing. It would appear that calling someone a "big" or "little" denotes superiority/ inferiority. Guess I should walk into work and call my manager "buddy" cuz other wise, i'm gettin hazed at work!

My org, does not PLEDGE. That's right, it's a new member process. Because the word in itself is a form of hazing.

Let me ask you this, do youthink that in the effort to protect such young minds we have lost ours? I mean I pledged to a flag every morning in my younger years at school was that being hazed? I had pop quizzes all the time to make sure I knew my class work, was that being hazed?

SCAVENGER HUNTS ... that's hazing too? We are really taking all the fun out of pledging and that's what it is pleding. You are pledging yourself to an organization. And you should develop certain skills in this process so that youcan be an asset when you "cross" into the greek world. We are tyring to be so PC with everything we are turning our precious organizations into clubs and at the same time we are throwing away sacred traditions.

Just because I have a paddle doesn't mean someone hit me with one. And now, we can't even post pics online holding them.

On the other hand: it is hazing to give someone a pledge name that is insulting. It is hazing to touch the pledges if it's not to give them hug or a handshake. Shame on you if you've ever used profane language around them, force them to injest anything, or make them feel like they aren't good enough.

Pledging is supposed to be fun Paddles, pledgenames and all. Get the jerks and leave the little guys alone

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by PhisigWarner

SCAVENGER HUNTS ... that's hazing too? We are really taking all the fun out of pledging and that's what it is pleding. You are pledging yourself to an organization. And you should develop certain skills in this process so that youcan be an asset when you "cross" into the greek world. We are tyring to be so PC with everything we are turning our precious organizations into clubs and at the same time we are throwing away sacred traditions.

How is a scavenger hunt a sacred tradition? Does that make kickball, Capture the Flag or Tug of War sacred, too? How does a scavenger hunt help you develop "certain skills" that will help you later on? I don't understand this line of reasoning.

If you look at when these organizations were founded, most will appear to have been founded on the ideals of "social, moral and mental improvement" of its membership. Paddles, scavenger hunts, "Big Brothers" and whatnot were frilly extras added later. Then people started swallowing goldfish, binge drinking as a condition of provisional membership and adopted Lord of the Flies governing mentalities. Then things went horribly awry.

That's the case here. Maybe the laws have gone too far and maybe young men and women need to learn to resist peer pressure more... but those things won't bring someone like Michael Carrington back. If someone acts like a child, his toys will be taken away, and it appears to me that the intern/national volunteers/officers are merely going back to basics.

At some point, as in politics, I have no doubt the pendulum will sway back in the other direction and this era of PC-ness will be behind us. Hopefully, the next generation of collegiate Greeks will have more common sense and committment to one another and there will be no more reports of pledges drinking themselves to death, being hit by cars in a game of chicken or the other myriad psychological and physical torture some of these fringe groups have put their members through-- things that have caused a PR nightmare for those of us who do follow the rules.

[macallan25]

you seem like a glass is half empty person.

[shinerbock]

My point regarding political correctness is more just a general statement about society in modern times. It seems we are in an era of no personal responsibility. Some would say this is exactly what Universities are trying to promote when they ban "hazing," but I think that idea is mistaken. How can you promote PERSONAL responsibility when you are micromanaging the activities you can VOLUNTARILY be involved in. I went to a very conservative school (student body), with very steeped tradition in all facets of campus life, including the greek system. Unfortunately, the members of our administration, as members of academia, are much more "progressive," and would prefer to see us move away from such tradition. However, why should they decide what incoming students, many who are legacies both in GLO's and at the school itself, can participate in? There are advantages to many things considered hazing, such as physical fitness, increased knowledge regarding the fraternity, increased personal responsibility, as well as responsibility for the entire groups performance. Now somebody, please tell me how these things are bad. As I have said repeatedly, I do not support hazing which includes beating pledges, making them do disgusting things, etc...but rather the difficult tasks they must work together on to complete. How is somebody going to get physically injured in a lineup?

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

However, why should they decide what incoming students, many who are legacies both in GLO's and at the school itself, can participate in?

Actually, it's real simple. They're covering their legal backsides. If they don't (sometimes even if they do), they get sued along with whomever else can be implicated.

I'm afraid that if injuries, deaths and resulting litigation don't end, the backlash will be toward (although I don't think it can ever be as bad) the In Loco Parentis type rules and regulations that we had to deal with when I was in college.

This has nothing to do with Political Correctness. It has to do with finances. A million dollar lawsuit here -- another one there -- pretty soon you're talking about some real money.

[Tom Earp]

Congratulations on one of the finest posts I have ever seen on GreekChat!

Thank You for your insight and input.

[bows&toes]

Originally posted by PhisigWarner
I carefully read what EVERYONE had to say before I decided to speak my mind. So here's the disclaimer: My organization does not haze nor haveI been hazed in any way. I would go through my new member process again if I had to. Now having said that, I ask this REALLY what is hazing?

As an undergrauate, I dormed with some ladies that belonged to another GLO and there was always a room filled with arts and crafts. The pledges mad cute little name tags adorned with glitter and hung them from our door every week. Is that hazing?

Standing up in a room full of sisters and greeting them by name one by one... is that hazing?

I've also heard of pledges interviewing active members of the chapter, and being quizzed on the answers later. The interviews I don't think are bad. The quizzes... uncomfortable, but is that hazing?

Is calling some one your "BIG" hazing? Do you know that some orgs on my campus couldn't refer to their Bigs as such in fear that they would be brought up on charges of hazing. It would appear that calling someone a "big" or "little" denotes superiority/ inferiority. Guess I should walk into work and call my manager "buddy" cuz other wise, i'm gettin hazed at work!

My org, does not PLEDGE. That's right, it's a new member process. Because the word in itself is a form of hazing.

Let me ask you this, do youthink that in the effort to protect such young minds we have lost ours? I mean I pledged to a flag every morning in my younger years at school was that being hazed? I had pop quizzes all the time to make sure I knew my class work, was that being hazed?

SCAVENGER HUNTS ... that's hazing too? We are really taking all the fun out of pledging and that's what it is pleding. You are pledging yourself to an organization. And you should develop certain skills in this process so that youcan be an asset when you "cross" into the greek world. We are tyring to be so PC with everything we are turning our precious organizations into clubs and at the same time we are throwing away sacred traditions.

Just because I have a paddle doesn't mean someone hit me with one. And now, we can't even post pics online holding them.

On the other hand: it is hazing to give someone a pledge name that is insulting. It is hazing to touch the pledges if it's not to give them hug or a handshake. Shame on you if you've ever used profane language around them, force them to injest anything, or make them feel like they aren't good enough.

Pledging is supposed to be fun Paddles, pledgenames and all. Get the jerks and leave the little guys alone

Good post.


I do think there is a big difference between sorrorities and fraternities as far as "hazing", and how much & what type is neccesary.

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Congratulations on one of the finest posts I have ever seen on GreekChat!

Thank You for your insight and input.

Well thank you Tom.

[Tom Earp]

You are more than very welcome!

Kuddos are due where they are due!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by bows&toes
Good post.


I do think there is a big difference between sorrorities and fraternities as far as "hazing", and how much & what type is neccesary.

What's the difference between sororities and fraternities as far as "hazing" (how much and what type is "necessary")?

[33girl]

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
What's the difference between sororities and fraternities as far as "hazing" (how much and what type is "necessary")?

Theoretically, fraternities do more physical hazing and sororities do more mental hazing, but I think that's a crock, personally.

[Drolefille]

Sorority hazing (and girls hazing in general) has always seemed more.. mean to me. Caveat: I've never personally seen or experienced hazing in a sorority. I've seen some of the guys though and one fraternity did a fake scavenger hunt followed by the pledges getting doused in water and hit with water balloons. Some make them drink and such. But they never seem angry or hateful in the same way that girls seem to be.

This was just something I'd thought about

/This post does not approve hazing in any form.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Drolefille
Sorority hazing (and girls hazing in general) has always seemed more.. mean to me. Caveat: I've never personally seen or experienced hazing in a sorority. I've seen some of the guys though and one fraternity did a fake scavenger hunt followed by the pledges getting doused in water and hit with water balloons. Some make them drink and such. But they never seem angry or hateful in the same way that girls seem to be.

This was just something I'd thought about

/This post does not approve hazing in any form.

After the disclaimer and example you gave, you still stuck with your assertation that sorority hazing (in general) seemed meaner?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by 33girl
Theoretically, fraternities do more physical hazing and sororities do more mental hazing, but I think that's a crock, personally.

I also disagree with that. Both do a combination of both.

But, I think people's generalizations about sorority versus fraternity hazing are based on what they perceive to be "the rule" (based on personal observation or something more in depth) versus what they perceive to be "exceptions to the rule."