CNNs Black in America w/ Soledad O'brien: July 19-27

[AKA_Monet]

Did anyone catch the "aftershow" on AC360 where Anderson glared at Soledad about the paid little boy and his family being kicked out of their apartment and unable to find another one? LOL...

[Professor]

i think the series opened the eyes of the general population as well as let out a few things that aa don't rarely share with other races. i'm impressed with the piece and think it is an excellent opportunity to create dialoge and foster learning.

what i did not like about the show last night was the profile on the black guy that worked for the school system. a great effort was given to show that he was not a "sell out." if you recall, he moved from the inner city to an almost exclusive white neighborhood, sent his kids to private school, etc. as a means of improving the life of his family. however, as the piece continued to air, we saw two of three kids were married to white women, the oldest son who is a da said he sees no color while in court, the youngest son clearly identified with non-blacks . . . my point being the piece really did make him seem like a sell out.

i liked the part that talked about how we need to be responsible for our own.

sorry - i'm rushing to key this and don't have time to fully develop the thoughts - will get back

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Professor

what i did not like about the show last night was the profile on the black guy that worked for the school system. a great effort was given to show that he was not a "sell out." if you recall, he moved from the inner city to an almost exclusive white neighborhood, sent his kids to private school, etc. as a means of improving the life of his family. however, as the piece continued to air, we saw two of three kids were married to white women, the oldest son who is a da said he sees no color while in court, the youngest son clearly identified with non-blacks . . . my point being the piece really did make him seem like a sell out.

I think the issue was with this vingnette that this guy is "supposed to be what all Blacks should strive for"... LOL...

Now tell me how is CNN or ANYBODY gonna tell me how to be "Black in America"???

[PerroLoco]

The successful Smith family that they profiled is headed by an Omega. It was good to see. Too bad that represents only about 30 % of our families. The Tara Hill chick on the aftershow was too much

[titan257]

I found the series to be repetitive of most specials on this topic shown recently. I too wish we could take this dialogue further and find some solutions to these issues rather than stating the obvious. I would like to mention that I am intrigued by my sisters and brothers who have negative opinions about the story. All of these educated black folks talking about they couldnt stomach the special because all it did was perpetuate stereotypes. "Where is the story about educated black people because they do exist?" I just feel like why create a show based on such a small proportion of our community. Why start saying yes, we are making small leaps toward finding a solution to the issues we have with those few families doing alright. So the majority can glaze over the issues and say, See if some of them can make it out of the hoods then its a decision that they are making and theres not fundamental problems inherit here. I hope im not rambling but I was upset by this response. Soledad never said there were no successful blacks but she isnt going to waste her time making a special about it, thats not her purpose. Her purpose is to get dialogue started to fix the problems. If thats what you wanna see, then u need to make a special and send it to cnn. I just wish we can talk more about solutions and just not identifying the problems.

[PerroLoco]

Overall, I would rate the show a C-. There was nothing new that any AA did not already know. I also resent the "dead beat" dad piece in that the focus was on the men exclusively. Fathers of all races are not doing their jobs just as those Black men were portrayed. However, those mothers were more complicit and responsible for their current condition. Birth control anyone? The mother with the 4 kids by the man 20 yrs older than her who never married her or took care of his kids? Why keep pumping them out. Last night, the girl was pregnant with twins by another guy before her child's 1st birthday!!! These people are a burden to our race and their is no social program to replace common sense and basic morality. That is why 50% of our people will always be mired in mediocrity.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PerroLoco

Overall, I would rate the show a C-. There was nothing new that any AA did not already know.

Unfortunately, there are some blacks who didn't know that there is a 70% single parenthood (motherhood) rate in the black community and/or they didn't know the implications of that. I don't know how blacks can't know this because beyond reading research on this topic, it is almost common knowledge that when you meet blacks in a certain age range, they are most likely from a single mother household. And these blacks will constantly talk about "my mother..." so you know the father was physically and/or emotionally absent. It hurts many black folks' feelings when you talk about this. However, the fact of the matter is that no matter how great yo mama was, you're still a statistic and whatever successes your family and you have, you are defying the odds.

Originally Posted by PerroLoco

I also resent the "dead beat" dad piece in that the focus was on the men exclusively. Fathers of all races are not doing their jobs just as those Black men were portrayed.

Sure, men are more likely to be absent than mothers (although, I know examples of single parent fathers and deadbeat mothers--very rare) in every racial group because of how we are socialized to believe that men and the family aren't one in the same. But this is specifically significant in the black community because we are hit with these social issues at a disproportionate rate. Small representation in the total U.S. population but overrepresentation in single parenthood, crime, and other social problems.

General observation: This series should have been called "Issues Concerning Blacks in America" or something that would let folks know that they were going to focus more on social pathologies. Certainly no one should believe that being "black in America" is synonymous with poverty, single parenthood, and overall negative life experiences that can be traced back to slavery. To represent the complete black American experience, and not just social issues that we are disproportionately and structurally experiencing, there should have been a better balance of positive experiences across gender and social classes. If that's not what CNN was going for, so be it.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PerroLoco

I also resent the "dead beat" dad piece in that the focus was on the men exclusively. Fathers of all races are not doing their jobs just as those Black men were portrayed. However, those mothers were more complicit and responsible for their current condition. Birth control anyone? The mother with the 4 kids by the man 20 yrs older than her who never married her or took care of his kids? Why keep pumping them out. Last night, the girl was pregnant with twins by another guy before her child's 1st birthday!!! These people are a burden to our race and their is no social program to replace common sense and basic morality. That is why 50% of our people will always be mired in mediocrity.

To add to what DSTChaos said:

Yes, there are plenty other ethnic groups of men who are "dead beat". But a 70% statistic is very difficult to refute. Many of our kids are NOT in two parent households. And today's economic realities of that lack is from a time long different with a 1950's mentality of a "nuclear family" which is NOT 21st century, modern thinking... Some countries accept these "moralities" that are actually occurring, today.

Yes, the issue is that women need to keep their legs closed--not because of moral issues--but because of HIV infections. Having sex in these days with a "poly amourous" nature is just unsafe because of this. It is interesting that every time a woman fails to use any kind of protection and winds up pregnant (again), it is more amazing that these kind of women are not getting HIV infected--maybe they are, but the stats have not become overwhelmingly alarming for the mainstream, etc.

The other issue is that folks who are getting busy and crankin' out kids also lack the knowledge of being parents. That natural parenting instinct is a myth. Also we no longer live in the close-knit family groups like we did in the past. Generally, we live in a global village exchanging information at lightening speeds. So, without some kind of massive intervention program that usually either religious institutions and/or governments employ, we will see more of this problem.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

That natural parenting instinct is a myth.

GET THAT SAID!!! It is learned.

On a related note:

If I hear ONE MORE PERSON talk about the natural maternal instinct (or how women naturally fantasize about their dream mate and fantasy wedding since childhood---different topic ) I am going to SCREAM. If more women socially felt that they could abandon their responsibilities, there would be more deadbeat mothers than there are--not because more women would be defying nature but because more women would be defying socialization. I'm not saying that this would be liberating to women but it is a realistic depiction of what childrearing and parenting are about--learned roles and duties.

Being able to have children and be involved in nurturing and child rearing is as much, if not more, learned (and sometimes forced) as it is natural. When men have no choice but to be the sole nurturers and caregivers for children, they are fully capable of doing everything except for the childbirth-related stuff.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

On a related note:

If I hear ONE MORE PERSON talk about the natural maternal instinct (or how women naturally fantasize about their dream mate and fantasy wedding since childhood---different topic ) I am going to SCREAM. If more women socially felt that they could abandon their responsibilities, there would be more deadbeat mothers than there are--not because more women would be defying nature but because more women would be defying socialization. I'm not saying that this would be liberating to women but it is a realistic depiction of what childrearing and parenting are about--learned roles and duties.

Isn't that what "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley is about? In his fictitious sci fi book, the fetus+placenta was removed and grown in a large "vat" until birth. Several movies have variated on the this theme. But what if the human female did not have to become physical mothers anymore?

I do agree there is socialization involved in the "REARING" of children. The more organized the civilization, the longer the "REARING" of the child. However, poor health is a huge culprit in behavior... And poverty usually connotes poor health. And since these women are getting impregnated under impoverished conditions and it is likely that these children will be raised in poor health from the cradle to the grave, it is interesting that as Blacks in America, we have not grossly suffered all out breeding deficits--given that we have been here for ~20+ generations.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Being able to have children and be involved in nurturing and child rearing is as much, if not more, learned (and sometimes forced) as it is natural. When men have no choice but to be the sole nurturers and caregivers for children, they are fully capable of doing everything except for the childbirth-related stuff.

That is the thing, men do not have the childbirth hormonal explosions as a woman does. And if the "pair-bond" is unstable--which in this series it says they are--then, men cannot fulfill their duties for being fathers--essentially, men just give up... Basically because they were allowed to do that as boys, they grew up in a society that permitted giving up (not sacrifice--but just not trying and without effort), and no one expects (my trigger word for the week ) anything beyond all that from them.

So in essence, we have witnessed a ton of kids that only using sex to prove that it feels good without repercussions or responsibilities. Then when that repercussion/responsibility sets in and they try, the powers that be and economy makes it difficult to proceed because of judgment. It's like, "whoo hoo" feel good about you and me however that means, but because you got caught up with the extras associated, you should be permanently penalized. I think that skips over some real issues and inhibits us from real solutions.

[TruGRITS]

I agree with the above comments concerning the limited perspective of the series. I felt that it was more geared towards ignorant (genuinely unknowing) people of other races (esp. whites) in effort to remove some of the "secrecy" that can be present between the Black community and the rest of the world. Unfortunately, I think many non-blacks who already hold us to certain stereotypes had those same stereotypes reaffirmed by this segment and that non-blacks who really don't care/don't know about our community now have that same limited perspective on us as the special did.

Also, I find it interesting and noncoincidental that this special aired in the middle of a presidential campaign where there is a black man running for the leading position of our country.

[I.A.S.K.]

Black In America was...interesting to some degree. I found some of the stories worth watching (the guy who was paying kids to learn and a few others) but overall I would say I am only shocked that there weren't segement titles like "baby mama" and "get yo swirl on: Interracial dating".

One thing that really was not talked about was the fact that many black children do not have childhoods. When the kids who were getting paid for grades were asked what they wanted to do with their money their answers were "help my daddy pay rent" and "save for tuition and maybe a home one day (I loved this answer! You go girl!)" while these are great things for young black people to be concerned about we still have to consider that these kids are like 9. Black kids are usually forced to face drugs, sex, mortality, financial issues, homelessness, joblessness, and stress at the level of adults and no one seems to notice. Depending on your age and how you grew up if you ask yourself what you would have done with 50 or 60 dollars when you were 9 you'd probably say buy toys or something a lot less adult than pay rent.

I did not see mental health is the documentary. Did I miss that part?

What is up with everyone saying "she should have kept her legs closed" ? I fully understand that women are responsible for their part in making babies out of wedlock, but is there ever going to be a day when someone says "keep it in your pants". As a YBW I have realized and partially accepted the fact that I am more responsible for any actions between me and the male kind. Don't like it, but it is what it is I guess.
Young men get condoms; young women get condemned.

I was watching Divorce Court and for 3 episodes in a row the judge told women that they should have considered the fact that a man can walk away at anytime and the high divorce rate before they decided to lay down and have children. While this is true partly, the judge was talking to married women. If you can't expect the man that you marry and make vows to to take of your children (that you two made together) then what should be done. Should everyone remain childless?

Another note on child rearing...I worry so much about what will happen to future generations because there is so little guidance. I look at my cousin who is 16 with a baby and I wonder what is he going to teach her? What morals and ideals will he instill in her? What values will he teach? What can he teach? He hasn't lived long enough to learn how to succeed in this world so how is he going to teach his daughter to do so? He thinks that feeding, clothing, providing a roof over her head and checking her homework is all a parent does. While that is a major part of parenthood there is so much more to it. Since thats all his parents did (and they didnt do that all of his life) that's what he thinks he needs to do. His mom's mom was 15 when she had his mom. His mom was 15 when she had him and now he's 16 with a baby and has no idea how to raise her. He thinks its cool that she looks just like him. My mom (who had me after 30) showed me bookmarks and pamphlets about success and spirituality and books on a wide range of topics and told me that those were the things she tried to instill in me. She said she may have come up short on some of them, but she did the best she could. My cousin is almost half the age my mom was and he doesn't even like to read. God forbid he read something about parenting or anything not required for school. His mind is on playing baskteball for the highschool next year not saving for his daughter's tuition. At one point when someone became a teen parent they let their dreams go in hopes that they would be able to make their child's dreams possible and one day (after the child is grown) go back to making their own dreams happen. While it is not entirely necessary to give up your dreams so your child can succeed most teen parents these days don't even consider that an option.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Black In America was...interesting to some degree. I found some of the stories worth watching (the guy who was paying kids to learn and a few others) but overall I would say I am only shocked that there weren't segement titles like "baby mama" and "get yo swirl on: Interracial dating".

One thing that really was not talked about was the fact that many black children do not have childhoods. When the kids who were getting paid for grades were asked what they wanted to do with their money their answers were "help my daddy pay rent" and "save for tuition and maybe a home one day (I loved this answer! You go girl!)" while these are great things for young black people to be concerned about we still have to consider that these kids are like 9. Black kids are usually forced to face drugs, sex, mortality, financial issues, homelessness, joblessness, and stress at the level of adults and no one seems to notice. Depending on your age and how you grew up if you ask yourself what you would have done with 50 or 60 dollars when you were 9 you'd probably say buy toys or something a lot less adult than pay rent.

I did not see mental health is the documentary. Did I miss that part?

What is up with everyone saying "she should have kept her legs closed" ? I fully understand that women are responsible for their part in making babies out of wedlock, but is there ever going to be a day when someone says "keep it in your pants". As a YBW I have realized and partially accepted the fact that I am more responsible for any actions between me and the male kind. Don't like it, but it is what it is I guess.
Young men get condoms; young women get condemned.

I was watching Divorce Court and for 3 episodes in a row the judge told women that they should have considered the fact that a man can walk away at anytime and the high divorce rate before they decided to lay down and have children. While this is true partly, the judge was talking to married women. If you can't expect the man that you marry and make vows to to take of your children (that you two made together) then what should be done. Should everyone remain childless?

Another note on child rearing...I worry so much about what will happen to future generations because there is so little guidance. I look at my cousin who is 16 with a baby and I wonder what is he going to teach her? What morals and ideals will he instill in her? What values will he teach? What can he teach? He hasn't lived long enough to learn how to succeed in this world so how is he going to teach his daughter to do so? He thinks that feeding, clothing, providing a roof over her head and checking her homework is all a parent does. While that is a major part of parenthood there is so much more to it. Since thats all his parents did (and they didnt do that all of his life) that's what he thinks he needs to do. His mom's mom was 15 when she had his mom. His mom was 15 when she had him and now he's 16 with a baby and has no idea how to raise her. He thinks its cool that she looks just like him. My mom (who had me after 30) showed me bookmarks and pamphlets about success and spirituality and books on a wide range of topics and told me that those were the things she tried to instill in me. She said she may have come up short on some of them, but she did the best she could. My cousin is almost half the age my mom was and he doesn't even like to read. God forbid he read something about parenting or anything not required for school. His mind is on playing baskteball for the highschool next year not saving for his daughter's tuition. At one point when someone became a teen parent they let their dreams go in hopes that they would be able to make their child's dreams possible and one day (after the child is grown) go back to making their own dreams happen. While it is not entirely necessary to give up your dreams so your child can succeed most teen parents these days don't even consider that an option.

This is so so true and goes back to single parent homes and/or total lack of parental guidance in many cases. Although my mother was very attentive as a parent and was a great parent, she was a single parent who worked two jobs all the time to support me and my younger brother. I was a "latchkey kid" early, picking my little brother up from school, heating up dinner, helping him with homework and overall being like his second mom. With my mom working all the time, it's a wonder I didn't get into trouble. I mean I wasn't a perfect angel or anything but I always felt a sense of responsibility for our lives. Fortunately for me I had great role models around me in my mother and in my family members; some of which lived in the "hood" and some of which lived in the "burbs." I always saw a better future but what about those that don't? I grew up around people like this, no hope...depressing. I came to realize that often times a person can see and hear about people like them who are successful all day but if they don't have people in their lives (teachers, parents, family, mentors) who are up close and personal examples, it's all just a fantasy.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

I did not see mental health is the documentary. Did I miss that part?

What is up with everyone saying "she should have kept her legs closed" ? I fully understand that women are responsible for their part in making babies out of wedlock, but is there ever going to be a day when someone says "keep it in your pants". As a YBW I have realized and partially accepted the fact that I am more responsible for any actions between me and the male kind. Don't like it, but it is what it is I guess.
Young men get condoms; young women get condemned.

I was watching Divorce Court and for 3 episodes in a row the judge told women that they should have considered the fact that a man can walk away at anytime and the high divorce rate before they decided to lay down and have children. While this is true partly, the judge was talking to married women. If you can't expect the man that you marry and make vows to to take of your children (that you two made together) then what should be done. Should everyone remain childless?

What a poignant question! Basically in this society, the American society, they are saying "YES, keep your legs closed"... LOL... There are REASONS why they are saying it--yeah right, it is always the Black woman's fault etc. And the reasons are LEGION!!!

The image of the Black woman was not focused at all. How is CNN going to entitle their episode as "Black Women and the Family" and relegate it to alleged high powered Black women unable to find dates, then leaps and bounds to a family reunion finding white distant cousins--as if that's really important in a Black woman's life? And what little they discussed about HIV is beyond comprehension--given that stat--85% new infections...

And given that Michelle Obama could be the next upcoming First Lady--how those attacks on her (think New Yorker cover) shows the gross mislabeling of who, what, where, when and why of Black women--Like we can be labeled given our natural Universe, royalty and divinity Interesting they failed to step on the bounds of NBC's series on that note. Maybe that was one too many for us...

As for mental health: welp, y'all know what I'm trying to do. Kneegrows aren't interested in that kind of care according to several people--some published, some not. I think it is more an coach or advisory role than "counselor", etc. Nonetheless, covering the health disparity in the Black community along would take a series and no one would want to do it because folks would have to come clean--like John Hopkins, Mayo Clinic and Mass General (to name a few)... LOL...

[SummerChild]

IASK,
I didn't see the documentary (had some other very time-consuming stuff going on that didn't allow me to watch) - however, I guess it strikes me that, really, what we are facing today, e.g., teenage pregnancy...well, unfortunately, it's really not a new phenom in our community. How many of us come from single parent families? parents who were teenagers at the time of our births? The newsflash is that single parent families have been everpresent in AA families since the days of the migrations when AA women brought their kids up north and many fathers stayed home. I'm sorry, this is not a new phenom. And the men should be ashamed. In the 60's and 70's there were teenage mothers. I know as many of my friends came from parents who were teenage mothers (and we are in our 30s). Newsflash, we need to get it together b/c all of this stuff (like kids thinking about things that are way too mature for their little minds) is not new to the 21st century. For example, when I was growing up, I had a mother and a father in the home. However, I was aware of their bills and that we couldn't go on every field trip b/c we just didn't have the money...and I'm a 70's baby from a 2-parent blue collar household. If you would have asked me what I would buy with 50 dollars, I probably would have said a doll. But who knows, I might have said that I would give the money to my parents so that they could go grocery shopping. Who knows...b/c goodness knows that we ate hot dogs every kind of way that they could be made. And I'm not joking. My point is that it's not a new phenomenon so I caution us about condemning this generation. The fact of the matter is that, newsflash, many of them *come from* broken homes - meaning that someone of an earlier generation failed them. They didn't come up with this stuff all by themselves. It is so easy to sit back and say, we were so much better than you guys. But the fact of the matter is that, they come from us. These girls and guys having babies as teens - most of them come from households that are a mess. Guess what, those households come from households that were a mess too. I think that the only solution is to own up to it, we have failed some of these kids, and we need to start fixing our own crap.

SC

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Black In America was...interesting to some degree. I found some of the stories worth watching (the guy who was paying kids to learn and a few others) but overall I would say I am only shocked that there weren't segement titles like "baby mama" and "get yo swirl on: Interracial dating".

One thing that really was not talked about was the fact that many black children do not have childhoods. When the kids who were getting paid for grades were asked what they wanted to do with their money their answers were "help my daddy pay rent" and "save for tuition and maybe a home one day (I loved this answer! You go girl!)" while these are great things for young black people to be concerned about we still have to consider that these kids are like 9. Black kids are usually forced to face drugs, sex, mortality, financial issues, homelessness, joblessness, and stress at the level of adults and no one seems to notice. Depending on your age and how you grew up if you ask yourself what you would have done with 50 or 60 dollars when you were 9 you'd probably say buy toys or something a lot less adult than pay rent.

I did not see mental health is the documentary. Did I miss that part?

What is up with everyone saying "she should have kept her legs closed" ? I fully understand that women are responsible for their part in making babies out of wedlock, but is there ever going to be a day when someone says "keep it in your pants". As a YBW I have realized and partially accepted the fact that I am more responsible for any actions between me and the male kind. Don't like it, but it is what it is I guess.
Young men get condoms; young women get condemned.

I was watching Divorce Court and for 3 episodes in a row the judge told women that they should have considered the fact that a man can walk away at anytime and the high divorce rate before they decided to lay down and have children. While this is true partly, the judge was talking to married women. If you can't expect the man that you marry and make vows to to take of your children (that you two made together) then what should be done. Should everyone remain childless?

Another note on child rearing...I worry so much about what will happen to future generations because there is so little guidance. I look at my cousin who is 16 with a baby and I wonder what is he going to teach her? What morals and ideals will he instill in her? What values will he teach? What can he teach? He hasn't lived long enough to learn how to succeed in this world so how is he going to teach his daughter to do so? He thinks that feeding, clothing, providing a roof over her head and checking her homework is all a parent does. While that is a major part of parenthood there is so much more to it. Since thats all his parents did (and they didnt do that all of his life) that's what he thinks he needs to do. His mom's mom was 15 when she had his mom. His mom was 15 when she had him and now he's 16 with a baby and has no idea how to raise her. He thinks its cool that she looks just like him. My mom (who had me after 30) showed me bookmarks and pamphlets about success and spirituality and books on a wide range of topics and told me that those were the things she tried to instill in me. She said she may have come up short on some of them, but she did the best she could. My cousin is almost half the age my mom was and he doesn't even like to read. God forbid he read something about parenting or anything not required for school. His mind is on playing baskteball for the highschool next year not saving for his daughter's tuition. At one point when someone became a teen parent they let their dreams go in hopes that they would be able to make their child's dreams possible and one day (after the child is grown) go back to making their own dreams happen. While it is not entirely necessary to give up your dreams so your child can succeed most teen parents these days don't even consider that an option.