Fall Rush at UGA

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Sure- and it does happen. When I was an active we had a particularly good rush one summer and ended up taking almost 40 pledges instead of the usual 25 or so we would normally take in the fall.

Worked out pretty good, but it had its drawbacks. Those guys ended up being a huge voting block in the chapter and that created some friction- especially when they were upperclassmen and held almost all the major offices in the chapter.

Sometimes it can work for the better to have a mega-sized pledge class come along, but usually only if you are in growth mode or if fundamental change is needed in the chapter. If things are running along on course however, it can be problematic.

Oh okay then, that makes sense. I thought it was just arbitrary. I agree about not taking too many, one of the groups here that always had big pledge classes was hit harder than the rest of us during a one or two year dry spell of interested guys, so instead of their of usual 5 fall/ 10 spring class size, one spring after like 3 semester of only 3 - 5 pledges a semester they put bids out on i forget how many people, but they wound up with 19 pledges, which was more than the rest of the chapter minus graduating seinors. I think that pledge class held every position as sophmores until they graduated.

[ugadawg]

I would be careful relying on the suggested fraternity tiers at UGA and serioiusly question the rankings. When I saw the prior post, I went to Old Row to see what posters had said. Almost all of the posts are by a handful of people, most of whom spend time trashing each other and other houses (a most unfratty thing to do if you're in a decent house). Go through summer rush (a lot of the houses have websites and list rush parties - rush is not a time to be timid - but don't be obnoxious either) - most houses have given out or have commitments for a significant portion of their pledge classes before formal rush starts. In the end its not the tier but how well you fit with the group.

[nate2512]

[quota] lot of the houses have websites and list rush parties [/quote]

In my experience, which may be way different at UGA, but most of the time chapters with decent up-to-date websites with all sorts of rush events, generally aren't quality chapters.

[jarred66]

Originally Posted by nate2512

[quota] lot of the houses have websites and list rush parties

In my experience, which may be way different at UGA, but most of the time chapters with decent up-to-date websites with all sorts of rush events, generally aren't quality chapters.[/quote]
very true

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by ugadawg

I would be careful relying on the suggested fraternity tiers at UGA and serioiusly question the rankings. When I saw the prior post, I went to Old Row to see what posters had said. Almost all of the posts are by a handful of people, most of whom spend time trashing each other and other houses (a most unfratty thing to do if you're in a decent house). Go through summer rush (a lot of the houses have websites and list rush parties - rush is not a time to be timid - but don't be obnoxious either) - most houses have given out or have commitments for a significant portion of their pledge classes before formal rush starts. In the end its not the tier but how well you fit with the group.

ewalt?

those that don't believe in tiers are likely in the lowest one.

[EE-BO]

UGAalum94- one thing that I think helps is to know that top tier fraternities and sororities tend to recruit from very specific places and have done so for a very long time. At Texas, I think it is safe to say the very top end GLOs get most of their numbers out of a very few high schools. So that right there establishes a lot of how the tier system works.

More than anything else, it is driven by the natural urge to go to college and find "safety" in people you know and have things in common with. This is an urge that lasts all through life- and it applies to everyone, not just the affluent. I like to think I am one of those people who can interact comfortably at all levels and truly enjoy and respect people for who they are, but I also have a very specific comfort zone which, for example, dictates where I live. That is something I am scrupulously picky about even though I am more comfortable than most to drive around and do business/hang out in many parts of town.

Many people in top tier organizations choose to wall themselves off in that small world. Their loss, but it is an attitude that came before and will endure after they go Greek.

If a person is comfortable and happy with their chapter, it is easy to talk about the tiers and be practical about it. Talking about them here helps I think in guiding people who are unfamiliar with Greek life since it educates them in the fact that there can be a big difference between a top tier chapter and the chapter that is right for the person looking for a place to pledge.

Granted, that is not how it always goes down- so I get your point. But I think that most people who have a truly deep and angry opposition to the notion of "tiers" are people who are not in top houses and wish they were. And people like that are doing their own chapters a disservice because that attitude means they think they deserve something else but pledged where they did just to have letters. (And for the record, I am not including you in that group since I think you are talking more about the presentation of the discussion and not the existence of tiers.)

[srmom]

At Texas, I think it is safe to say the very top end GLOs get most of their numbers out of a very few high schools. So that right there establishes a lot of how the tier system works.

EE-BO, a little off topic, but, I've been wondering how the top 10% rule (especially this year, which was brutal) will affect this, and the greek system as a whole.

As it becomes more and more difficult to get in UT, less and less of your typical "fraternity type" guys are getting accepted. I know that at our high school this year, pretty much NOBODY who would normally go "top tier" got in. They are mostly all heading to A&M, which was their second choice, but they got accepted there. These boys include some strong, big dollar, legacy types to "top tier" houses at Texas.

Will an opening up to non-feeder type schools have to occur to keep up the quality of the pledges?

I know when I mentioned some of the guys who are going to Texas from our high school to my son, his comment was, "Well, they'll make great ...'s", meaning, he wouldn't tell his rush chairmen about them - so guys are going to have to come from somewhere

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by srmom

EE-BO, a little off topic, but, I've been wondering how the top 10% rule (especially this year, which was brutal) will affect this, and the greek system as a whole.

As it becomes more and more difficult to get in UT, less and less of your typical "fraternity type" guys are getting accepted. I know that at our high school this year, pretty much NOBODY who would normally go "top tier" got in. They are mostly all heading to A&M, which was their second choice, but they got accepted there. These boys include some strong, big dollar, legacy types to "top tier" houses at Texas.

Will an opening up to non-feeder type schools have to occur to keep up the quality of the pledges?

I know when I mentioned some of the guys who are going to Texas from our high school to my son, his comment was, "Well, they'll make great ...'s", meaning, he wouldn't tell his rush chairmen about them - so guys are going to have to come from somewhere

Hi srmom,

The impact has been felt at all levels, and it goes hand in hand with the housing issues facing fraternities at Texas.

Overall IFC membership is down from pre-Hopwood days (Hopwood was the name of the court case that eventually led to the 10% rule for anyone not familiar with the story.)

That, combined with much higher housing costs, has cut down greatly on the number of viable fraternities at Texas who own homes- and even more on the overall number of IFC groups (though the emergence of new Greek councils covering other GLO systems keeps the overall number fairly consistent.)

When I was in school, the top 5 or 6 fraternities consistently kept their numbers in the 150-180 range with the largest house being over 200. And top mid tier houses like mine typically ran from 80-100 guys.

As of this spring, only 5 chapters at Texas have over 100 guys- with the top head count being 168 (I have 10 years of IFC data sitting in front of me, hence my ability to be so specific- though I prefer to not name chapters.)

In Fall 2002, IFC totals were nearly 2,000 with 84 being the average chapter size. Today the figure is just under 1,500 with 68 the average chapter size.

Smaller chapters find it harder to cover housing costs in an environment where property taxes have risen as much as 400% since 2004 when the rezoning went into effect and land values skyrocketed. That is easing up some now, but some chapters now face property taxes over $100,000 a year- over $200,000 in one case.

Right now I think 4-5 smaller chapters are in serious financial trouble (my personal estimate based on their size and housing costs), but there are also some serious recolonization efforts going on since Texas is a campus where most fraternities want a strong presence. So it is hard to know if the overall number will go down as I expect, but it is certainly incredibly expensive now for anyone to own property and a surprising number of chapters here are renting at the moment.

In the big picture, the top tier houses will be fine. Their GPAs are incredible- over the all UT men's average and in the low 3.0 range. UT has always had special arrangements with top private schools to admit students based on class rank and SAT score without regard to a 10% threshold and it is my understanding those agreements are still in place though more stringent. So students from top private schools- a key source of rushees for top houses- have a harder time getting into UT than before, but it is not quite the crapshoot it is for most students.

Overall the change at UT has been good for Greek life. While I disagree strongly with the 10% rule and think it should go back to being an applicant-based consideration with high school quality mattering a great deal, the fact is that UT is overall a far more serious institution academically in terms of the student body.

At fraternities this has meant higher GPAs, a desire to keep as many pledges as possible and not chase them off with excess "activities" and also a great reduction in the amount of time that goes into party builds and other stuff that could interfere with academics.

Most of the serious hazing and RM incidents you see today are from the smaller and newer GLOs, some of them "fringe" groups with no real organized national leadership. The more established GLOs are far more responsible and civilized places since that party crowd with bad grades cannot get into UT anymore. This also, I think, explains the apparent rise in serious incidents at nearby public universities which are easier to get into and where a lot of those guys now have to go since UT is not an option.

Long story short- Greek Life at UT is going to be fine. 5 years from now I expect there will be fewer chapters and those chapters will be larger in size. And at the top levels, there will be little- if any- change assuming there are not any major incidents.