Cloning....Why clone anyway?

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I'm so lost in this discussion Cheerful do you need to write a paper or something in Ethics?

Human genes are being cloned everyday AND on a computer chip... Now, that technology, wow. If I had money back in 1994 when Affymetrix started!!!

We can grow organoids in petri plates. We do it with stem cells all the time. Well, depending on how your look at it, the US cannot use Human Embryonic Stems so we scientists are WAAAY behind on that research curve. While Singapore and North Korean gives us bogus data on that subject...

The issue with providing correctional "parts" to damaged tissues is the honing to the area. It's easiest with skin. It's harder with nerves. And add a chronic illness into the mix, like cancer or heart failure, good luck...

And NONE of these studies are being done in the US anymore! So, don't get cancer unless your Senator Kennedy, or lose a limb, or have heart failure because, welp, you are NOT going to be saved with our current healthcare system.

I'd say the US is now 5 years behind other 1st world countries research...

I think what's interesting is the recent ability to "reprogram" skin cells into a state that is similar to stem cells. That's going to be the future of the cloning debate and it will be interesting to see what theraputic advantages this technique can yield.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=16470482

http://www.wired.com/medtech/stemcel...7/11/skin_cell

Kitso
KS 361

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I'm so lost in this discussion Cheerful do you need to write a paper or something in Ethics?

Human genes are being cloned everyday AND on a computer chip... Now, that technology, wow. If I had money back in 1994 when Affymetrix started!!!

We can grow organoids in petri plates. We do it with stem cells all the time. Well, depending on how your look at it, the US cannot use Human Embryonic Stems so we scientists are WAAAY behind on that research curve. While Singapore and North Korean gives us bogus data on that subject...

The issue with providing correctional "parts" to damaged tissues is the honing to the area. It's easiest with skin. It's harder with nerves. And add a chronic illness into the mix, like cancer or heart failure, good luck...

And NONE of these studies are being done in the US anymore! So, don't get cancer unless your Senator Kennedy, or lose a limb, or have heart failure because, welp, you are NOT going to be saved with our current healthcare system.

I'd say the US is now 5 years behind other 1st world countries research...

Nope. I don't have to write another paper until the fall. My 1st year is done...

Yeah, this is true about the human genes, but these kinds of studies are usually done with genes affected by diseases with a known faulty protein or something. I was talking about more on the lines of being able to generate an identical genetic copy of a whole organism. I don't think we really are able to do it with people yet. I'm thinking with us it would be much harder, because humans have about 25,000 different genes, probably each made up of between a few hundred to a few thousand base pairs of DNA code I'm sure.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by RaggedyAnn

Check out this company...
tengion.com

Cool website. How did you hear about them?

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I think bringing back the extinct animals would be taking things a bit too far, but I do think the good thing about cloning, is we would be able to bring back a lost pet. If it died, we could bring it back and it would more than likely have the same personality as the original. I know this wouldn't be true for all cloned animals though.

Actually, it would be very unlikely that a cloned pet would have the same personality traits as the original. If you do your research, you will find that many traits are developed by one's environment. Look at identical twins - nature's clones. Even though both may have certain proclivities, whether they are raised in the same household or not, they invariably have many differences.

For examples, my sisters, identical twins, took different roles on as children and thus as adults. One was two minutes older, and as a result was always called the "oldest". They competed over everything, yet one or the other would do better in practically everything they did: grades, sports, etc. One loved math, the other loved enlgish. One is a CEO, the other is a Social Worker.

An example about pets: You kitty might be a lap cat, but maybe that's because it was raised with lots of mommy and human contact. Your cloned kitty could likely be raised for the first month or so alone, with no mommy to teach her to do "cat things". She may not like to jump on your lap because perhaps she fell off something and is afraid of heights.

There are easily hundreds of falacies about cloning and genetics. Though most people think that it is a simple process, it's an extremely complicated theory with too many variables to imagine. Even with animals.


ETA: The ability to clone organs would theoretically be quite beneficial for humans, since there are already so many on transplant lists, and the potential and incidence of organ rejection is a huge risk. Having one's own genetic organ available could potentially solve a crisis that loses thousands of people a year to organ failure.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

Actually, it would be very unlikely that a cloned pet would have the same personality traits as the original. If you do your research, you will find that many traits are developed by one's environment. Look at identical twins - nature's clones. Even though both may have certain proclivities, whether they are raised in the same household or not, they invariably have many differences.

For examples, my sisters, identical twins, took different roles on as children and thus as adults. One was two minutes older, and as a result was always called the "oldest". They competed over everything, yet one or the other would do better in practically everything they did: grades, sports, etc. One loved math, the other loved enlgish. One is a CEO, the other is a Social Worker.

An example about pets: You kitty might be a lap cat, but maybe that's because it was raised with lots of mommy and human contact. Your cloned kitty could likely be raised for the first month or so alone, with no mommy to teach her to do "cat things". She may not like to jump on your lap because perhaps she fell off something and is afraid of heights.

There are easily hundreds of falacies about cloning and genetics. Though most people think that it is a simple process, it's an extremely complicated theory with too many variables to imagine. Even with animals.


ETA: The ability to clone organs would theoretically be quite beneficial for humans, since there are already so many on transplant lists, and the potential and incidence of organ rejection is a huge risk. Having one's own genetic organ available could potentially solve a crisis that loses thousands of people a year to organ failure.

Wow...ya know, I didn't think about the environmental issues with cloning a pet. You're right. That makes sense. I guess attempts to clone animals could back up the idea that cloning isn't the most healthy way to start off life. Actually, this subject came up in one of my classes, with cloned animals, I read that at least the few that make it past the fetal stage, have been affected variously by enlarged organs, and problems with their immune system, joints and liver as well as obesity. I also agree with what you said about the problems in cloning, because some of the conditions are thought to be down to errors in the reprogramming of genes during the cloning procedure. Like you said it isn't that easy. I mean, like plants for example. People have been cloning plants for thousands of years. It's simple. You just take a leaf cutting from a plant and grow it into a new one. That's a form of cloning...I guess. Cloning animals is harder because with a few exceptions, most animals reproduce sexually, unlike plants, they need genetic information from both male and female.

I'm not sure if you remember, but a few years ago a lady paid 50 grand to some company in California to clone her pet cat, who died of old age. Well, anyway, after the cat was born, according to the owner, it was said to have exactly the same personality as the orignial.

[DSTCHAOS]

I'm surprised to find how many GC threads there are about human cloning over the years.

Have there been any huge developments or advancements since the debate began years ago? I would only support cloning for finding cures to diseases or someting like that. Cloning pets and humans for random replication is dumb and a waste of humanity and science.

All seemingly good and interesting things can have a turn for the worse if they are misused. Random: I remember The Mist and how those aliens or whatever were able to demolish that town. It wasn't cloning but it was science gone bad.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Cloning pets and humans for random replication is dumb and a waste of humanity and science.

lol lol awww...DSTCHAOS why? C'mon. What about the social benefits of cloning? Like perpetuating the genetic qualities of outstanding people, or like what you said about helping research on human development.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

lol lol awww...DSTCHAOS why? C'mon. What about the social benefits of cloning? Like perpetuating the genetic qualities of outstanding people, or like what you said about helping research on human development.

No.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

lol lol awww...DSTCHAOS why? C'mon. What about the social benefits of cloning? Like perpetuating the genetic qualities of outstanding people, or like what you said about helping research on human development.

This is evolution. Natural selection and all that. If you want "the genetic qualities of outstanding people" to perpetuate, marry an outstanding person and make babies with them. No cloning is needed.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

This is evolution. Natural selection and all that. If you want "the genetic qualities of outstanding people" to perpetuate, marry an outstanding person and make babies with them. No cloning is needed.

Wow Peppy, you're so smart. I didn't think of that one.

You deserve a round of applause and a Scooby snack for posting that. Good for you....

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Wow Peppy, you're so smart. I didn't think of that one.

You deserve a round of applause and a Scooby snack for posting that. Good for you....

Is this your way of reattaching the bull's eye that had fallen off of your forehead?

[DSTCHAOS]

Let the record show that NOW I think cheerfulgreek is being picked on just for the helluvit. She was on an "it's because it's me" trip and folks are giving her what she paid for.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Let the record show that NOW I think cheerfulgreek is being picked on just for the helluvit. She was on an "it's because it's me" trip and folks are giving her what she paid for.

Yeah.....I peeped that too.

Ah well.

[TexasWSP]

The lack of humility before nature that's being displayed here, uh... staggers me. God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs...



I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're talking about here: it doesn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others have done and you want to take next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourself, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you're selling it, you want to sell it!!!!!!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

The lack of humility before nature that's being displayed here, uh... staggers me. God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs...



I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're talking about here: it doesn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others have done and you want to take next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourself, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you're selling it, you want to sell it!!!!!!

Pure awesome. Well fucking played.