The Hazing Tradition

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Perhaps that maybe the case.
But which would be worse: The threat of some Alumni cutting off "funding" or National and/or school shutting them down????

You're assuming that one of these will always happen but usually neither one happens.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

You're assuming that one of these will always happen but usually neither one happens.

Have you seen the postings in RM section?
Seems as if closing do take place.
And those are the ones that are posted here.

[jon1856]

I really do not know just who is more correct here.
Or is it some combination?

Originally Posted by Kevin

The thing is -- most organizations have already started to take that ability away from alumni. For large, established chapters, alumni donations aren't turned around and used immediately. Often, for tax reasons, that money goes into a 501(c)(3) trust which is overseen by either your national, or a board of alumni directors with oversight from national. I'm working on organizing one such fund for my chapter right now. It's good stuff.

Even if your national doesn't control the funds in your foundation, the alumni who run the board still have a fiduciary duty as to the use of those funds. Refusing to disburse funds because the chapter refuses to engage in illegal activities, I'm afraid is not a valid use of that authority. In fact, if what you say came to pass, that sort of behavior on the alums' part could actually be enough for a plaintiff to reach them personally.

Now you can go underground or whatever, but how long would something like that be viable?

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I just don't see southern fraternities giving away that power to nationals, most of us do not care for nationals.

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

And most of our alumni hate nationals. We have very few that give to the national organization and hundreds that give to the fraternity itself.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Have you seen the postings in RM section?
Seems as if closing so take place.
And those are the ones that are posted here.

At schools I've never heard of, by fraternities I've rarely heard of.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I disagree about hazing one day being a memory. It will always exist, at least in the south because alumni actually WILL cut off funding if the fraternity changes rituals or traditions.

The thing is -- most organizations have already started to take that ability away from alumni. For large, established chapters, alumni donations aren't turned around and used immediately. Often, for tax reasons, that money goes into a 501(c)(3) trust which is overseen by either your national, or a board of alumni directors with oversight from national. I'm working on organizing one such fund for my chapter right now. It's good stuff.

Even if your national doesn't control the funds in your foundation, the alumni who run the board still have a fiduciary duty as to the use of those funds. Refusing to disburse funds because the chapter refuses to engage in illegal activities, I'm afraid is not a valid use of that authority. In fact, if what you say came to pass, that sort of behavior on the alums' part could actually be enough for a plaintiff to reach them personally.

Now you can go underground or whatever, but how long would something like that be viable?

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The thing is -- most organizations have already started to take that ability away from alumni. For large, established chapters, alumni donations aren't turned around and used immediately. Often, for tax reasons, that money goes into a 501(c)(3) trust which is overseen by either your national, or a board of alumni directors with oversight from national. I'm working on organizing one such fund for my chapter right now. It's good stuff.

Even if your national doesn't control the funds in your foundation, the alumni who run the board still have a fiduciary duty as to the use of those funds. Refusing to disburse funds because the chapter refuses to engage in illegal activities, I'm afraid is not a valid use of that authority. In fact, if what you say came to pass, that sort of behavior on the alums' part could actually be enough for a plaintiff to reach them personally.

Now you can go underground or whatever, but how long would something like that be viable?

I just don't see southern fraternities giving away that power to nationals, most of us do not care for nationals.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I just don't see southern fraternities giving away that power to nationals, most of us do not care for nationals.

And most of our alumni hate nationals. We have very few that give to the national organization and hundreds that give to the fraternity itself.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

And most of our alumni hate nationals. We have very few that give to the national organization and hundreds that give to the fraternity itself.

Why don't you secede?

[macallan25]

Bro, I gotta agree with them on this.

You are right, chapters do get shut down in the South, sure.......but you have to take into account which chapters.

I can almost promise you that there are some chapters at quite a few different schools in Texas and the Southeast that will never be shut down, barring a complete and utter catastrophe or some kind of insanely serious circumstance. I could tell you things that I have seen and witnessed that would get a chapter in other places shut down without a second thought........but it really isn't appropriate to do that on an open message board.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Bro, I gotta agree with them on this.

You are right, chapters do get shut down in the South, sure.......but you have to take into account which chapters.

I can almost promise you that there are some chapters at quite a few different schools in Texas and the Southeast that will never be shut down, barring a complete and utter catastrophe or some kind of insanely serious circumstance. I could tell you things that I have seen and witnessed that would get a chapter in other places shut down without a second thought........but it really isn't appropriate to do that on an open message board.

Exactly... it used to be ATO here until last year when one of their powerful alumni's son (a hemophiliac) was forced to crawl across broken glass and got cut up really bad. Daddy saw it and was unhappy and Daddy happened to be having lunch with the University President (a Phi Delt) later that day. Whats funny is they are underground and will be back on campus either next year or the year after.

Major chapters will not be touched by their nationals down here.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Bro, I gotta agree with them on this.

You are right, chapters do get shut down in the South, sure.......but you have to take into account which chapters.

I can almost promise you that there are some chapters at quite a few different schools in Texas and the Southeast that will never be shut down, barring a complete and utter catastrophe or some kind of insanely serious circumstance. I could tell you things that I have seen and witnessed that would get a chapter in other places shut down without a second thought........but it really isn't appropriate to do that on an open message board.

Brother, I am not even going to try nor do I even wish to fight with you about this one. However please note my high-lights of yours and note following quote from another poster.
From from my POV, experience etal , if something keeps going on at some point in time and place S**t happens. And when that happens, no one is going to be around to hold hands. More likely they will be pointing with one hand while trying to hold their nose and wallet at the same time.
And nothing is as secret as a college student may think it is.

Originally Posted by PhiGam

Exactly... it used to be ATO here until last year when one of their powerful alumni's son (a hemophiliac) was forced to crawl across broken glass and got cut up really bad. Daddy saw it and was unhappy and Daddy happened to be having lunch with the University President (a Phi Delt) later that day. Whats funny is they are underground and will be back on campus either next year or the year after.

Major chapters will not be touched by their nationals down here.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Brother, I am not going even try nor do I even wish to fight with you about it one. However please note my high-lights of yours and note following quote from another poster.
From from my POV, experience etal , if something keeps going at some point in time and place S**t happens. And when that happens, no one is going to be around to hold hands.
And nothing is as secret as a college student may think it is.

No you're right, nothing is as secret as we all think.......that's what makes it even more incredible that nothing happens. Everyone knows but some of the chapters in question incur zero consequences.

The story PhiGam posted is a pretty good example of how much it takes to bring the house down, in my opinion. I mean....a hemophiliac getting cut up badly could spell death if I'm not mistaken......pretty serious.

[PhiGam]

Jon... the thing is that it is NOT secret at all. I can tell you when every fraternity at FSU's hell week is, I have seen pledges running around campus at 3am in sharps, I have seen pledges lined up doing push ups in the middle of campus. Every sorority girl has has received a lovely 2am serenade from an entire pledge class. Hazing is, for the most part, accepted here so long as nothing happens that seriously endangers the life of a pledge.
Just going to reiterate that my chapter does not haze though, we are the only one.

[PhiGam]

From the article about Pike's hazing allegations at UT:

Wednesday night, 10News approached several fraternity members, including those belonging to fraternities other than Pike, but no one wanted to comment.

However, some other students on campus had plenty to say.

"I just thought, I mean, that's pretty outrageous," said Kyle Gilson, a UT freshman. "I couldn't see getting myself in that kind of situation. I don't really understand why people do, so it was pretty shocking."

[bowsandtoes]

I really don't see how anything that a person willingly wants to do can be considered hazing.

I could construe the legal definition to say that my professors are hazing me by assigning papers.