The Hazing Tradition

[PhiGam]

I disagree about hazing one day being a memory. It will always exist, at least in the south because alumni actually WILL cut off funding if the fraternity changes rituals or traditions.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I disagree about hazing one day being a memory. It will always exist, at least in the south because alumni actually WILL cut off funding if the fraternity changes rituals or traditions.

Perhaps that maybe the case.
But which would be worse: The threat of some Alumni cutting off "funding" or National and/or school shutting them down????

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I disagree about hazing one day being a memory. It will always exist, at least in the south because alumni actually WILL cut off funding if the fraternity changes rituals or traditions.

The thing is -- most organizations have already started to take that ability away from alumni. For large, established chapters, alumni donations aren't turned around and used immediately. Often, for tax reasons, that money goes into a 501(c)(3) trust which is overseen by either your national, or a board of alumni directors with oversight from national. I'm working on organizing one such fund for my chapter right now. It's good stuff.

Even if your national doesn't control the funds in your foundation, the alumni who run the board still have a fiduciary duty as to the use of those funds. Refusing to disburse funds because the chapter refuses to engage in illegal activities, I'm afraid is not a valid use of that authority. In fact, if what you say came to pass, that sort of behavior on the alums' part could actually be enough for a plaintiff to reach them personally.

Now you can go underground or whatever, but how long would something like that be viable?

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Perhaps that maybe the case.
But which would be worse: The threat of some Alumni cutting off "funding" or National and/or school shutting them down????

You're assuming that one of these will always happen but usually neither one happens.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The thing is -- most organizations have already started to take that ability away from alumni. For large, established chapters, alumni donations aren't turned around and used immediately. Often, for tax reasons, that money goes into a 501(c)(3) trust which is overseen by either your national, or a board of alumni directors with oversight from national. I'm working on organizing one such fund for my chapter right now. It's good stuff.

Even if your national doesn't control the funds in your foundation, the alumni who run the board still have a fiduciary duty as to the use of those funds. Refusing to disburse funds because the chapter refuses to engage in illegal activities, I'm afraid is not a valid use of that authority. In fact, if what you say came to pass, that sort of behavior on the alums' part could actually be enough for a plaintiff to reach them personally.

Now you can go underground or whatever, but how long would something like that be viable?

I just don't see southern fraternities giving away that power to nationals, most of us do not care for nationals.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I just don't see southern fraternities giving away that power to nationals, most of us do not care for nationals.

And most of our alumni hate nationals. We have very few that give to the national organization and hundreds that give to the fraternity itself.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

You're assuming that one of these will always happen but usually neither one happens.

Have you seen the postings in RM section?
Seems as if closing do take place.
And those are the ones that are posted here.

[jon1856]

I really do not know just who is more correct here.
Or is it some combination?

Originally Posted by Kevin

The thing is -- most organizations have already started to take that ability away from alumni. For large, established chapters, alumni donations aren't turned around and used immediately. Often, for tax reasons, that money goes into a 501(c)(3) trust which is overseen by either your national, or a board of alumni directors with oversight from national. I'm working on organizing one such fund for my chapter right now. It's good stuff.

Even if your national doesn't control the funds in your foundation, the alumni who run the board still have a fiduciary duty as to the use of those funds. Refusing to disburse funds because the chapter refuses to engage in illegal activities, I'm afraid is not a valid use of that authority. In fact, if what you say came to pass, that sort of behavior on the alums' part could actually be enough for a plaintiff to reach them personally.

Now you can go underground or whatever, but how long would something like that be viable?

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I just don't see southern fraternities giving away that power to nationals, most of us do not care for nationals.

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

And most of our alumni hate nationals. We have very few that give to the national organization and hundreds that give to the fraternity itself.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Have you seen the postings in RM section?
Seems as if closing so take place.
And those are the ones that are posted here.

At schools I've never heard of, by fraternities I've rarely heard of.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

At schools I've never heard of, by fraternities I've rarely heard of.

Exactly... ATO got booted here after an entire decade of being complete morons, it takes a lot for a good fraternity to get in trouble here. Even then its usually just a clean out.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

At schools I've never heard of, by fraternities I've rarely heard of.

EW, that is a rather easy comment to say when, to the best of my knowledge, you have yet to indicate where you go to school and just what GLO you are a member of.
And if you have, I am sorry that I forgot and please remind me.
After all, I can say that when I was in school, there were many schools I never heard of at that time and many GLO's that I never heard of either. And many chapters of my own Fraternity that I never had any dealings with.
And just because I never heard of them, I guess nothing ever happened there.
However, as I was active in Fraternal activities that occurred outside of my Chapter, I became aware of matters going on elsewhere.
And on the other hand there were activities that happened on my rather small campus, including within the Greek system, that I had no knowledge of until years later.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by jon1856

EW, that is a rather easy comment to say when, to the best of my knowledge, you have yet to indicate where you go to school and just what GLO you are a member of.

I go to the University of Arkansas.

I've indicated this repetitively.

You know, show me when DKE or SAE at Alabama get busted. Phi Delt or Sigma Nu at Ole Miss. DKE at Yale. Strong chapters. I'm not saying any of these haze though I have a good idea, but show me a strong chapter that nationals even thinks of threatening. Some of these chapters would have to sacrifice three pledges on the front steps of the nationals building to be thought about bringing up.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I go to the University of Arkansas.

I've indicated this repetitively.

You know, show me when DKE or SAE at Alabama get busted. Phi Delt or Sigma Nu at Ole Miss. DKE at Yale. Strong chapters. I'm not saying any of these haze though I have a good idea, but show me a strong chapter that nationals even thinks of threatening. Some of these chapters would have to sacrifice three pledges on the front steps of the nationals building to be thought about bringing up.

When I have the time to look around , I will.
I do ask that you look around for evidence of what you said as well.

[macallan25]

Bro, I gotta agree with them on this.

You are right, chapters do get shut down in the South, sure.......but you have to take into account which chapters.

I can almost promise you that there are some chapters at quite a few different schools in Texas and the Southeast that will never be shut down, barring a complete and utter catastrophe or some kind of insanely serious circumstance. I could tell you things that I have seen and witnessed that would get a chapter in other places shut down without a second thought........but it really isn't appropriate to do that on an open message board.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Bro, I gotta agree with them on this.

You are right, chapters do get shut down in the South, sure.......but you have to take into account which chapters.

I can almost promise you that there are some chapters at quite a few different schools in Texas and the Southeast that will never be shut down, barring a complete and utter catastrophe or some kind of insanely serious circumstance. I could tell you things that I have seen and witnessed that would get a chapter in other places shut down without a second thought........but it really isn't appropriate to do that on an open message board.

Exactly... it used to be ATO here until last year when one of their powerful alumni's son (a hemophiliac) was forced to crawl across broken glass and got cut up really bad. Daddy saw it and was unhappy and Daddy happened to be having lunch with the University President (a Phi Delt) later that day. Whats funny is they are underground and will be back on campus either next year or the year after.

Major chapters will not be touched by their nationals down here.