My Thoughts On Fraternity Guys... - Page 2

KABillyMac · #16 08-02-2001, 09:10 AM

Lil G, good to see someone standing up for the rights of testostorone. Keep fighting the good fight brother, you good people.

Why must college women put so much emphasis on monogomous (sp?) relationships???? I mean come on, you encounter so many people during your college "career", lol, how in the world are you to know that the person you have just hooked up with/met/went on a date with is the one that you HAVE to be in a relationship with. Cmon, its 2001, get with the program. DATE OTHER PEOPLE, FIND OUT WHAT YOU TRUELY WANT IN LIFE.

I am an active KA, and I have been with my girlfriend for two years. Before her, I dated several girls, and usually more than one in a given time frame. Not tooting a horn here, but I learned more about myself and others during that time than at any other point in my life. Why did I settle down? Well, she hit me over the head with an iron skillet, drug me home, and claimed her stake. I never saw it coming. Sometimes the good Lord blesses you with the one you are to be with early in life, and sometimes he doesnt. I miss the dating scene, but I also wouldnt trade what I have right now for anything.

Thrillhouse · #17 08-02-2001, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaSigLana:

James made all men sound like a bunch of a-holes which is pretty much true. Guys shouldn't pretend to like someone bc that really hurts a girls feelings in the end.

Guys are pretty much a-holes eh? Thanks for generalizing us. That is right on the mark too

I don't remember ever pretending to like someone, but I guess from what you are saying I have done that all of the time.

[This message has been edited by Ex greek (edited August 02, 2001).]

bigdu · #18 08-02-2001, 01:58 PM

speak on james and KSig RC!!!!!!! i feel the same way its like everytime you start dating a girl next thing you know she's thinking your the one who's going to be the man of her dreams, and all the time she's thinking this your thinking your not sure if you really like this girl or not and before you know the pressure builds up and you have to get out of there. so my advice for the girls is just to relax, give us some space and take things slow, we might be the man of your dreams but you'll never know if smother us from the start.

CRMSNTiDEGRL717 · #19 08-02-2001, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James:
Hmmmm. Let me chime in here a bit. Fraternity men will eagerly commit to you if they like you enough, and understand that you like them in return.

Here are some guidelines:

1. Just because someone hooks up with you doesn't mean they like you all that much, especially if drunk. Even when they pay a lot of attention to you and call you.

2. Men even more than women can disassociate feelings from physical encounters.

3. Its not so much a question of whether a guy is ready for committment or not, its whether he is ready for a committment with YOU.

How many times will someone give someone the I-don't-want-to-be serious-right-now speech only to turn around and start dating someone seriously almost right away! (Hint: We all mentally rehearse that speech.) Why? They liked the other person more than you.

It sucks but it happens to us all. So lets not sugar coat it and make it seem like an age thing, college thing, or even guy thing. Its a like thing.

Kevin, you are way to nice you'll date more girls if you are a bit more callous Women like that

We, Fraternity men, make excellent friends in that we usually are partying and if you hang out with us will be hanging out with a bunch of guys that like to have fun and are paying attention to you. Sounds good to me I like hanging out with groups of girls . . . especially when I am the lone guy.

About our friends being more important: Again it depends on how much we like you. I have seen the biggest player type guys miss the social equivalent of Super Bowl parties to hang out with their girlfriend, and perish the thought, her parents. Why? Because he was really into her.

If we want to do other things more, well it means we are more into those other things than the girl. But there are probably other girls out there we would be more into than those things . . . if that makes any kind of sense.

About us saying we like you and then freaking out . . . its kind of the role you know? When we fall into the dating- boyfriend pattern we are kinda obligated to be supportive, caring, and say sweet things. A lot of time its pillow talk.

(shrug) So when we freak we are experiencing a kind of cognitive dissonance. Between where the role seems to be taking us and how we really feel about you.

James---- I thought your post was EXCELLENT!!!!!! I'm a girl and I certainly don't think all guys are assholes and I don't think you made them out that way either

I think all of the guys on this board are great, smart, and probably have there share of looks also.
AlphaSigLana---Whatever

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University of Alabama--- ROLL TIDE!!!!!

Miami1839 · #20 08-02-2001, 08:45 PM

James, thanks

I agree with your insight as well as KappaSigRC. Its pretty much right on. More callous. hmm. maybe. I did think of that in college because some of my brothers were that way when we hit the town, but I never wanted to project myself that way because it isnt me. I just always figured that if I tried to be something I wasnt the girl would see right through it and of course if she didn't I guess I'd wonder. I guess I'm dwelling on this too much. Its just I've had bad luck I guess. Many of my brothers have told me that looks are not my problem its just that first step. I've always been rather shy and to others I guess appear snobby. But I'm not. lol Anyways, thanks for the input.

One little rant I have (looking back on my college experience) is when a woman falls for a guy after a hook up and then the guy gets skidish and then a guy is seen as a total looser. But then if the roles are reversed the guy looks worse.(in terms of womans opinion) Just my opinion I guess.

Kevin

Quote:

Originally posted by James:
Hmmmm. Let me chime in here a bit. Fraternity men will eagerly commit to you if they like you enough, and understand that you like them in return.

Here are some guidelines:

1. Just because someone hooks up with you doesn't mean they like you all that much, especially if drunk. Even when they pay a lot of attention to you and call you.

2. Men even more than women can disassociate feelings from physical encounters.

3. Its not so much a question of whether a guy is ready for committment or not, its whether he is ready for a committment with YOU.

How many times will someone give someone the I-don't-want-to-be serious-right-now speech only to turn around and start dating someone seriously almost right away! (Hint: We all mentally rehearse that speech.) Why? They liked the other person more than you.

It sucks but it happens to us all. So lets not sugar coat it and make it seem like an age thing, college thing, or even guy thing. Its a like thing.

Kevin, you are way to nice you'll date more girls if you are a bit more callous Women like that

We, Fraternity men, make excellent friends in that we usually are partying and if you hang out with us will be hanging out with a bunch of guys that like to have fun and are paying attention to you. Sounds good to me I like hanging out with groups of girls . . . especially when I am the lone guy.

About our friends being more important: Again it depends on how much we like you. I have seen the biggest player type guys miss the social equivalent of Super Bowl parties to hang out with their girlfriend, and perish the thought, her parents. Why? Because he was really into her.

If we want to do other things more, well it means we are more into those other things than the girl. But there are probably other girls out there we would be more into than those things . . . if that makes any kind of sense.

About us saying we like you and then freaking out . . . its kind of the role you know? When we fall into the dating- boyfriend pattern we are kinda obligated to be supportive, caring, and say sweet things. A lot of time its pillow talk.

(shrug) So when we freak we are experiencing a kind of cognitive dissonance. Between where the role seems to be taking us and how we really feel about you.

Well g'night

[This message has been edited by Miami1839 (edited August 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Miami1839 (edited August 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Miami1839 (edited August 02, 2001).]

TinkerbellMTSU · #21 08-02-2001, 11:32 PM

This is so unfair! I guess I'll never have any relationship with a college guy, because the only relationships I've had (in highschool & such) were serious.
I guess no one will want to go out with me because I intend to stay a virgin for as long as possible. I don't want to "hook up" with a guy for a one-night stand. The only thing I would do if I did have a "casual" relationship is make out or maybe a little more. I will probably be labeled as a "tease", then. :*(
All I want at this point is a really good guy friend who is always there for me who I can maybe eventually fall in love with. I miss the hugs, back rubs, the sweet mushy stuff. :*( But since "no college guys" are into that stuff, I guess I'm doomed to be single from now on.

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***Tinkerbell***

~~~Don't worry, be happy!~~~

James · #22 08-03-2001, 12:07 AM

I must not have been as clear as I intended if people believe I was making guys out to be a-holes or even saying that guys pretend to like girls.

I don't believe that men pretend to like that much at all, it takes a lot of energy, we may just not like a woman as much/or in the way she wants us to.

Hear what someone is saying and watch what they are doing. If they say they like you, they most likely do. But if they don't want to take it to the next level they probably don't like that girl enough to give up whatever they perceive they would have to give up. Dating, in a fun, but not committed sense can be an end to itself.

I think there may be more honesty there than just falling into a committment because the other person wants you to, or gives you the time honored speech of "what we are we doing, are where are we going with this".

When you really like someone, you almost can't help yourself, you just really want to spend time with that person.

I agree that with Greeks it may be even harder because as a group we meet more people and have more opportunities for fun and distraction. I have seen many a relationship start because the people in question didn't meet many people, or have very much to do, so the relationship was easier to fall into because there were less options for other stuff.

The problem is that we would rather blame anything and everything than have to face the idea that someone might not like us that much or enough . . . its a sucky feeling.
When its happened to me, I haven't much liked it.

What KABillyMac said was good, shop around, stop practicing getting married with every relationship, and putting that kind of pressure on every relationship.

Sometimes its as much a gift when they won't commit, would you rather be in a relationship that is doomed because the other person doesn't like you enough to last the long run? That would be really playing with your feelings.

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaSigLana:
.
James made all men sound like a bunch of a-holes which is pretty much true. Guys shouldn't pretend to like someone bc that really hurts a girls feelings in the end.

KSig RC · #23 08-03-2001, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James:
What KABillyMac said was good, shop around, stop practicing getting married with every relationship, and putting that kind of pressure on every relationship.

Excellent point, James - it's as simple as this: guys get scared off when the girl is more into them, then they are into the girl. It's one of the worst possible dating scenarios for dudes, b/c there's no good way to handle it. I think a lot of our stated problems here are alleviated when people just chill on relationships, and stop expecting every single person you date to be 'the one.' That's horribly unrealistic, and places so much undue pressure on both people that the relationship fails before it begins.

Play the field, have fun - don't lower your standards, but maybe lower your expectations of finding your spouse at every fraternity party. Be more assertive, and go after guys (instead of expecting the opposite) - then, try to utilize the relationship for fun and mutual fulfillment (on many levels), and never look at it as potentially 'serious' - that is only inviting failure, and it'll eventually happen if meant to be. Never put that kind of pressure on guys - I have enough trouble doing laundry (OK, dragging it to the cleaners), etc; how can I be expected to be the 'man of your dreams' right off the bat as well?

LeslieEMU · #24 08-03-2001, 10:27 AM

Here's my two cents:

Women in general (not everyone, but many) are maternal and relationship/communication oriented. We like having boyfriends because we have someone to care about and to care about us.

That being said, the reason a lot of us Greek ladies start freaking out about fraternity boys not wanting committment is because college is often our best chance to meet guys. Think about it...you meet new people almost everyday when you're in college but, once you graduate, you become confined to your office, classroom, lab, etc.

I'm 21, I'm not in a relationship, and I think I'm very "dateable." I don't need a guy to complete me, but that I still get lonely sometimes and wish that I had a guy (especially since many of my sisters are in serious relationships and are starting to get engaged/married). All the guys I meet are either 19 or over 23 and usually are in a relationship, which is sooooo frustrating!

So, in closing

, while their are no perfect guys or girls (Greek or not), we (sorority girls) blame you (fraternity guys) because you are our frame of reference, the ones we hang out with and are often closest to.

Miami1839 · #25 08-03-2001, 10:06 PM

LeslieEMU,

You said that beautifully. I can understand where your coming from. I think your still young enough where you shouldnt be concerned with this and I admit what you said about fraternity boys. Being one I can tell you that there are a handful of us that do want the same thing. Its just that women and men communicate themselves differently I guess. Maybe both men/women should lax up on what they want or what they expect. Not on the basic things like honesty and trust but maybe others. I dont know. I give up. lol

Kevin

James · #26 08-03-2001, 10:30 PM

LeslieEMU: I thought that was an excellent observation. Ask the question a little differently and you get a bit of the guys point of view . . . College has so many options of meeting girls, what if we settle down to early and miss a really great one? Also, a lot of times men are hypnotized by the idea of being with multiple women, so many times we are attracted physically to a girl, but there might not be an emotional attraction. I have been told by girls that often when they hook up there is a bit of an emotional attachment that almost always goes with it, even if small. So a girl might be bothered if she saw the guy she hooked up with hooking up with someone the next night. With guys this seems to happen less.

TinkerbellMTSU: Don't despair sweetie. There are plenty of guys into the mushy stuff, and you know by looking around that a lot of people are in committed relationships, even Greeks. However, it would be a little unfair to your guy friend to treat him like a surrogate boyfriend, and do the things with him you would do with a BF, without a physical component . . . wouldn't it? It would suck for him.

Remember: Women approach sex through intimacy. Men approach intimacy through sex. Subtle but important difference.

Hugs, backrubs, and mushy stuff like that will make you feel all glowy and pampered, but will send him running home in a complicated state of arrousal to have a cold shower

Assuming you are attractive to him

Kevin: I'm not saying to be mean. But there are gradients of nice. Most really nice guys I have met (and this is only a personal observation), that complain of a dearth of dating prospects because they are to nice, are not really what I consider nice, they are merely too concerned with what other people will think of them to risk saying or doing things that might anger, offend, or lead to someone liking them less.

But this seriously inhibits their behavior and doesn't allow them full expression, and people can sense it eventually, because its really not completely genuine.

The trick is to create and maintain a balance between a consistent ethic that allows you to be yourself in way that reflects well on you, and to be considerate of others wants and needs without having to give up your own. And when you find out how to balance that 100 percent of the time email me with the directions

AlphasigLana: You should have no trouble finding a boy like that because you aren't actually asking for very much

But at least you have taken the first step and are looking.

Meeting lots of people is such a gift! If you only hung out with two members of the opposite sex your entire life you would fall in love and marry one of them . . . which wouldn't be great odds for the happiest relationship. Sometimes its harder in college than out because there are so many more people to crush on and so many more for them to crush on also. With that many distractions its no wonder that often you'll like someone that will be liking someone else, and not noticing the person that is liking you.

[This message has been edited by James (edited August 04, 2001).]

Miami1839 · #27 08-04-2001, 12:02 AM

James,

Wow, you are good man. You should open up a business or something. Yeah, you have me right on. Many people misinterpret me and see me as fake because of how I act and it is totally not true. Its just who I am. Its my nature to be overly nice/genuine but those that dont know me....... well.. dont understand it. Maybe its an issue I have I dont know but often times I'm taken advantage of it also. I guess often times I try too hard... O well. I give up. ha ha. Thanks for your insight and advice. I'm not sure if I'll ever strike that balance but I'm trying to work on it which I guess is important. ha ha. I'll let you know when I come close to having that balance or at least in the right ball park.

Kevin

[This message has been edited by Miami1839 (edited August 04, 2001).]

UofISigKap · #28 08-04-2001, 12:55 AM

I have found the entire gamut of men in the fraternity system. There are always the ones looking for the best time they can have that night. However, I remember one story about a sister of mine and a fraternity man she met at one of our exchanges. The girl ended up needing to leave early, but he was friends with another sister of ours who was there too. He kept asking if she thought it would be okay for him to call the girl because he thought she was the greatest thing ever. It didn't end up being long term, but it was nice to see him showing a genuine interest in something that hopefully become more than that one meeting.

Kevin, If I had a nickel for every time someone told me, 'you're just too nice' I could retire now before I even start my career. My friends and sisters know it's for real, whereas some people who I just meet see it as a front and think I must be horribly fake. So, I hear ya! Girls have the same deal too. You're not the only one. I know I get taken advantange of, and I know I need to work on it.

On another tanget though, most of my guy friends in school were the nice guys who finally decided that nice really was a "four lettered word" considering how often they heard, 'you're a great friend and I can't date you because you're just too nice...' I think that is an ENTIRELY different thread all together though.

DeltaBetaBaby · #29 08-04-2001, 01:12 AM

UofISigKap---
I just wanted to tell you that I know a lot of women in your chapter, and they are all genuinely nice. I went to SK's pref party the year I went through recruitment, and I loved all the girls because they were so sweet and down to earth. There is nothing fake about you ladies!

UofISigKap · #30 08-04-2001, 01:49 PM

Thanks DeltaBetaBaby! I just read the comment and it brought a big smile to my face. You're so sweet!