Illinois Smoking Ban

[PhiGam]

I love being in an indoor clean air state.

[Tom Earp]

COOL, how much more morality are we going to regulated in?

Oh, remember the Government professes that the NON Smokers will not pay for tax increases and the tobacco banners say it will help us.

Did anyone ever think of when all of us SINNERS quit this horribal adiction and the Billions of $$$$ are not collected where in teh hell is the tax money going to come from to make up for the loss of tobacco tax money?

How many thousands of people will lose their jobs and how in the hell do they pay for living?

Da, sorry dumb asses, YOU!

I cannot afford to retire and if I do, my employee cannot work, he cannot pay his rent and buy food! He and his family starve as I have to kick them out of where they live!

The thing I love most is do rightous people!

They are going to save me! Oh maybe save me from you all cause you are good!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's not rocket science to know who your clientele is and what will piss them off.

This may be true (or also may not be), but it really has no effect on the overall 'market force' argument - it's simply not explicitly true to say that, if most people wanted bars to be smoke-free, they would already be smoke free.

There's no doubt your iron workers' local hang-out will be adversely affected, but that's not really relevant to the point I was making.

When I say "realize potential" for what would happen w/out smoking, I mean it in the sense that almost no bar owners have any reliable way to measure the effects of going to a non-smoking establishment, and as such the 'market' (as it were) can't really drive that way. You provide two exceptionally extreme examples, and even there only the iron workers example gives much surety.

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

How many thousands of people will lose their jobs and how in the hell do they pay for living?

Da, sorry dumb asses, YOU!

Don't you think this amount might be, y'know, offset by:

a.) the fact that smoking will still occur, just not in bars or restaurants (see: smoking in NYC and Boston has not exactly ended)
b.) lowered public burden for smoking-related illnesses, especially in non-smokers or children of smokers?

Seriously, there's more to this argument than some nebulous economic hit to "the industry" or your store, Tommy - people die.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

This may be true (or also may not be), but it really has no effect on the overall 'market force' argument - it's simply not explicitly true to say that, if most people wanted bars to be smoke-free, they would already be smoke free.

There's no doubt your iron workers' local hang-out will be adversely affected, but that's not really relevant to the point I was making.

When I say "realize potential" for what would happen w/out smoking, I mean it in the sense that almost no bar owners have any reliable way to measure the effects of going to a non-smoking establishment, and as such the 'market' (as it were) can't really drive that way. You provide two exceptionally extreme examples, and even there only the iron workers example gives much surety.

The issue I had when this came up in Pgh were all the people saying "OMG I will SO go out to bars all the time when the smoking ban comes along." For some people that's true, but for a lot of people, not so much. Once the ban is passed, they'll say they don't go out because of parking, or because it's too expensive, or because of the music, or blah blah blah.

A lot of people are just big party poopers, and like to blame their lameness on things that aren't their fault.

Heroin and other such drugs weren't always illegal - they lost their legal status when it was shown that their negatives were greater than their positives. If tobacco is such a horrible drug, why hasn't it become illegal as well? (Yes I know - tobacco lobby blah blah blah.) You can't demonize something and continue to profit from it.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by jmagnus

I'm not too happy about it. I've actually been driving the 10 minutes to the Wisconsin border so I can enjoy a smoke with my burger. Regardless of if you smoke or not, I think everyone has to agree that this law is right on that "personal freedoms" line. The first link at the bottom goes to the law, the second is the story below

Uhhh what about my personal freedom to not have to inhale YOUR second-hand smoke while I enjoy my burger?

Be happy that you don't live in Texas, where it is WAY more than 10 minutes to get to a state border

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

The main business "haters" of our legislation has been more upscale restaurants and bars that had cigar lounges. They had to close those, too, and find some other purpose for those rooms.

The "high end" clubs and restaurants can just declare themselves private clubs can't they? Pretty much every region with a smoking ban has a legislative provision for the establishment of private clubs with private memberships in which smoking is permissible - most of the Men's Clubs or higher end places catering to the cigar crowd went that way up here when the ban hit years ago...

PS> For the OP - no the quoted bit by me was directed at the guy in the article and not you, which is why your name wasn't at the top of the quote

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jmagnus

Alright, I'm taking off for work *please don't let me get robbed*. Just remember, I originally posted this to spark an intelligent debate between adults. I shouldn't have to say it but don't let this digress into a name calling match. Remember the golden rule and always respect the opinion of others, even if you don't agree.

AlethiaSI,
That is coming next. My boss was telling me that the anti-smoking lobbyists are trying to push that through congress. From what I understand *and don't quote me on this...rumors* it's already illegal in Cali. That is, it's illegal to smoke in your car if you have kids in there....kinda common sense anyways. No one should be doing that in the first place.

Let me leave you with this thought. You may not remember but back in the day there was a website offering quite a bit of money, 1000 i think, for a picture of Obama smoking. Why is it that the worst thing you can be these days is a smoker? Dubya did coke and got a DUI and he still made it to the Office....is smoking cigarettes worse than that?

So you agree that you shouldn't be allowed to smoke in you car with your kids because of health concerns.........but you think it's ok to smoke indoors in businesses, bars, restaurants, etc. where your second hand smoke is unhealthy to everyone within your vicinity?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by RACooper

The "high end" clubs and restaurants can just declare themselves private clubs can't they? Pretty much every region with a smoking ban has a legislative provision for the establishment of private clubs with private memberships in which smoking is permissible - most of the Men's Clubs or higher end places catering to the cigar crowd went that way up here when the ban hit years ago...

PS> For the OP - no the quoted bit by me was directed at the guy in the article and not you, which is why your name wasn't at the top of the quote

Not sure if Illinois left a provision for private clubs or not. Arguably the employees still have to work there...

ETA: according to a google news search: Private Clubs are NOT exempt.

[AKA_Monet]

Here is your healthy lung:




and here is your lung on smoking tobacco:




Here is your cancerous lips and mouth caused by smoking tobacco:






Now as a taxpayer, should I have to foot this kind of health treatment when I can attempt to prevent it by longterm cheaper cessation program?

Dr. AKA_Monet
Chief of GC Hospital

[AKA_Monet]

More photos for the smokers! YAAY smokers!!!



We are almost ready to start Case Conference for those studying for the USMLE!

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by macallan25

So you agree that you shouldn't be allowed to smoke in you car with your kids because of health concerns.........but you think it's ok to smoke indoors in businesses, bars, restaurants, etc. where your second hand smoke is unhealthy to everyone within your vicinity?

I didn't even catch that from the OP.

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

And AKA_Monet, I <3 U!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Uhhh what about my personal freedom to not have to inhale YOUR second-hand smoke while I enjoy my burger?

If smoking and nonsmoking sections are created PROPERLY in restaurants...and if common sense is followed (i.e., not walking thru the smoking section to get to the nonsmoking) this isn't an issue.

[jmagnus]

I never said you shouldn't be allowed to smoke in your car with kids...I meant any responsible parent should know not to do it. A 10 year old kid doesn't have a choice to ride in a car with their parent or not, people do have a choice of what establishments support.

Fiscal Note (Dept. of Revenue)
The Department of Revenue estimates that SB 500 would reduce tax revenues collected under the Cigarette Tax Act and the Cigarette Use Tax Act by approximately $24 million to $60 million per year and would reduce Retailers' Occupation Tax and Use Tax Revenues by approximately $3.5 million to $8.5 million per year.

Taken from: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/Bill...51&LegID=28191

Monet,
This is not a personal attack but your post reminds me of PETA. Taken to the extreme and showing the worst-case-scenario.

And Texas,
You are right, I am lucky. Where I live is 10 miles away from Wisconsin and where I go to school is about 10 miles away from Kentucky...places where personal freedoms are still respected.

I didn't quote it but to whoever asked how many bar owners I've met...I've met quite a few. Actually, I deliver for Miller beer so I've met most of the bar owners in Northern Illinois. Yes, many are not the smartest but they don't last. They make bad business decisions and close down. It's not the big "nightlife" type bars and clubs that we are worried about either. It's the small neighborhood bars that are in danger. It's only been a few days but we have already had 3 bars close down. It was the ones that were barley hanging on to begin with and the ban was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm lucky that I only have one semester left here before I move back to school. We had a meeting at work yesterday and my manager told us that if the trend continues with bars closing, layoffs will start next month. Business has already slowed considerably. I went from working 60 hours a week to working 35. I can no longer afford to live in my apartment and at the end of the month, lucky me, get to move back in with my mom. So for all of you that think the ban only inconveniences smokers, guess again. It goes a lot deeper than you think. A lot of good people are going to be standing in the unemployment line quite soon.

[jmagnus]

[nittanyalum]

^^^Having family members lost to lung cancer I'm not going anywhere near this smoking discussion, but jmag, I just noticed your signature link and clicked in. Watching your brothers do the *shimmy clap* to "Thriller" cracked me up!