Students with Disabilities and Greek life acceptance and access

[DUKyleXY]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Whether or not she was discriminated against, I am sorely disappointed in the fact that so many Greek houses/facilities are not handicap-accessible. Shame on us that we need the ADA to help us do the right thing.

While I do agree with you, as the article stated, many Greek houses are considered landmarks and are therefore extremely hard to have renovated. The landmark laws prevent any major changes to the structure of the house and most facilities would require an elevator or an addition to be ADA compatible. For example, my house would be a nightmare. There are stairs to everything. It is very unfeasible in many situations.

[bejazd]

I can think of at least three people I knew well who had physical disabilities when they joined their respective chapters. I can't imagine a chapter not willing to make reasonable accomodations for a member they wanted to pledge. And you don't have to live in the house to have the sisterhood/brotherhood experience.

ADA covers all kinds of disabilities- not just physical ones. Should we make all our chapter houses peanut-free? Would we have to accomodate scholarship requirements for PNMs with ADHD or dyslexia?

[AlwaysSAI]

Yes, the woman discussed in the article was senior at the time but she rushed 3 times prior. I would say it is safe to assume she was a sophomore when it all began--class standing most likely was not the only reason she was released when she was a sophomore.

And, yes, I know I am not an NPC member, but I do have an obvious physical disability and I can see where the young woman is coming from. None of us were in the MS meetings--we will never really know why, but one thing I do know as physically disable american, it is VERY difficult to put yourself out there knowing good and well you may be rejected-be it for whatever reason.

Things happen in younger grades that stick with you--that pervade your every day life and make you wish it would go away. Example: I have an identical twin sister (for those of you that don't know). She was always pretty popular in school and I was always just kind of her lacky. In the eigth grade a pretty popular guy in school tells my sister that she is really cool and that "your sister would be really cool too if she didn't limp." That was also the same year that all of my friends (including my sister) began picking on me because it became the cool thing to do. I was called gimp, cripled, crip and they would imitate the way I walk when they passed me in the hallway.

Yes, middle school kids can be very cruel due to their own insecurities, but those kinds of things have really stuck with me.

Yes, I found my way and have been very successful with my life, but those kinds of comments have alway stuck with me.

I guess I'm just trying to say that it's very easy for this woman to blame her disability. It's what she knows, it's what she's comfortable with and honestly, it probably makes the most sense to her. Because, I gaurentee she has been denied other opportunities based solely on that.

There is a possiblity she is right. I don't know. I know many disabled members of NPCs on my sisters campus-but none in wheelchairs. We just initiated a blind individual into my Phi Sig chapter and I guess I count too.

Gosh...I wrote a book....

[KSUViolet06]

I'm always interested in Greek issues involving disabled people because I am disabled. I have CP and walk with crutches. Two of my close friends from undergrad are also disabled Greek women. One of them is legally blind and a DZ, and the other is in a wheelchair and a Chi Omega.

The article says things about houses not being accessible. I can't speak for all schools, but I know we all lived in our sorority houses at one point in undergrad and everything was made fully accessible for us. I believe Chi Omega even remodeled their first floor bedroom to accommodate my friend. I think that if a chapter really wants to have you as a sister, they will make the neccessary accommodations to the house so that you can live-in and have the full experience. I know that my Greek experience was in no way limited by my disability because everything was made accessible for me to participate in it.

There are alot of disabled people who live in "pity party" land, where they feel sorry for themselves, and everything they don't get accepted into, they blame it on the fact that they are disabled. This usually stems from rejections they may have experienced where their disability WAS a factor. So they transfer that to every rejection they get.

No one knows for sure why she was cut, but I'm sure it never occured to her that there may have been other reasons (like her grades, personality, etc) because she is probably most comfortable with falling back on "oh they cut me because I'm in a wheelchair."

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

Yes, the woman discussed in the article was senior at the time but she rushed 3 times prior. I would say it is safe to assume she was a sophomore when it all began--class standing most likely was not the only reason she was released when she was a sophomore.

And, yes, I know I am not an NPC member, but I do have an obvious physical disability and I can see where the young woman is coming from. None of us were in the MS meetings--we will never really know why, but one thing I do know as physically disable american, it is VERY difficult to put yourself out there knowing good and well you may be rejected-be it for whatever reason.

Things happen in younger grades that stick with you--that pervade your every day life and make you wish it would go away. Example: I have an identical twin sister (for those of you that don't know). She was always pretty popular in school and I was always just kind of her lacky. In the eigth grade a pretty popular guy in school tells my sister that she is really cool and that "your sister would be really cool too if she didn't limp." That was also the same year that all of my friends (including my sister) began picking on me because it became the cool thing to do. I was called gimp, cripled, crip and they would imitate the way I walk when they passed me in the hallway.

Yes, middle school kids can be very cruel due to their own insecurities, but those kinds of things have really stuck with me.

Yes, I found my way and have been very successful with my life, but those kinds of comments have alway stuck with me.

I guess I'm just trying to say that it's very easy for this woman to blame her disability. It's what she knows, it's what she's comfortable with and honestly, it probably makes the most sense to her. Because, I gaurentee she has been denied other opportunities based solely on that.

There is a possiblity she is right. I don't know. I know many disabled members of NPCs on my sisters campus-but none in wheelchairs. We just initiated a blind individual into my Phi Sig chapter and I guess I count too.

Gosh...I wrote a book....

I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that! Kids can really be cruel. I hope that we as greeks are more mature than to pick on or exclude someone with a disability, but like with all other traits deviating from the Miss USA standard, some chapters may exclude you based on any number of un-PC reasons. I agree that the third time the woman in the story rushed, she probably didn't receive a bid because she was a senior. BUT...who knows why she didn't receive a bid the first two times. We all know there are people who don't get bids who embody our rituals but don't look the part. There are also people who are ugly on the inside and out. Ha! I guess we'll never know the truth. It's easy to assume that greeks discriminate since there are few with disabilities in our groups, but it doesn't take into account the few that decide to go out on a limb and attend recruitment after having experiences like AlwaysSAI describes. I just hope that we would consider those that do attend recruitment in the same light as someone without a disability.

[ealymc]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

The article says things about houses not being accessible. I can't speak for all schools, but I know we all lived in our sorority houses at one point in undergrad and everything was made fully accessible for us...
...I think that if a chapter really wants to have you as a sister, they will make the neccessary accommodations to the house so that you can live-in and have the full experience.

Not everyone has the funds to just up and renovate. Sometimes it's a fiscal roadblock to being more accommodating.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by ealymc

Not everyone has the funds to just up and renovate. Sometimes it's a fiscal roadblock to being more accommodating.

And has already been said, a lot of the houses at Berkeley (ours included) are very old and historic landmarks making it VERY expensive to upgrade/remodel. Capital campaigns are not easy things to get money for.

[paulam]

I have to add my 2 cents worth here about a fraternity making an accomodation. I have an adult son who is a high functioning autistic. He is the best person I have ever known and I wouldn't trade a nanosecond of his life for a million years of anyone elses'. Despite the fact that he doesn't often speak, he has a fabulous sense of humor. For example, his Dad is always trying to encourage him to speak and bought him a book. He asked him to open it anywhere and read. Jeff thought about it for a moment, opened the front cover, read aloud, "$24.95" and shut the book! We laughed for days.

When he graduated from high school, he was unable to attend college because he had other physical problems which would have prevented him getting around on campus, but one fraternity sent him a letter about rushing. I politely responded, letting them know that Jeff was autistic and those great guys continued sending him letters, which he read with a huge smile on his face. They made room for a disabled guy in their hearts and I will never forget that.

Jeff can live with his disability, but I don't understand how cruel people can live with theirs. I wish everyone had a Jeff in his or her life.

Paula M.
Sigma Delta Tau
ΣΔTPatriae Multi Spes Una One Hope of Many People

[icicle22]

Originally Posted by paulam

I have to add my 2 cents worth here about a fraternity making an accomodation. I have an adult son who is a high functioning autistic. He is the best person I have ever known and I wouldn't trade a nanosecond of his life for a million years of anyone elses'. Despite the fact that he doesn't often speak, he has a fabulous sense of humor. For example, his Dad is always trying to encourage him to speak and bought him a book. He asked him to open it anywhere and read. Jeff thought about it for a moment, opened the front cover, read aloud, "$24.95" and shut the book! We laughed for days.

When he graduated from high school, he was unable to attend college because he had other physical problems which would have prevented him getting around on campus, but one fraternity sent him a letter about rushing. I politely responded, letting them know that Jeff was autistic and those great guys continued sending him letters, which he read with a huge smile on his face. They made room for a disabled guy in their hearts and I will never forget that.

Jeff can live with his disability, but I don't understand how cruel people can live with theirs. I wish everyone had a Jeff in his or her life.

Paula M.
Sigma Delta Tau
ΣΔTPatriae Multi Spes Una One Hope of Many People

I think the reason why some people can't live with their disabilities is simply because it makes them feel like outcasts and very ostracized.

[skylark]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Should we make all our chapter houses peanut-free? Would we have to accomodate scholarship requirements for PNMs with ADHD or dyslexia?

This makes me think of something I read the other day about a law school that had to go "peanut-free." (here is a link to a discussion on another site: http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/11/d...ating_witc.php)

Apparently, since many things are cooked in peanut oil, it isn't just about not eating peanuts. There are a lot of things off-limits, and even being in the same room as some of that stuff can send some people with severe allergies into a reaction.

I would never encourage discrimination, but I get the impression from many posters here that they are assuming most chapters could reasonably accommodate nearly every disability. The fact of the matter is that many chapters are simply not financially/practically able to accommodate for every specific disability that PNMs might potentially have. If chapters can accommodate, that is great. But any kind of blanket "we should accommodate any disability" statement is simply naive.

[ForeverRoses]

I think there is a difference between the chapter HOUSE accomidating someone with a disability and the CHAPTER accomidating someone.

At least for my school, if you couldn't go upstairs in the chapter house, so what? then you didn't see the bedrooms. All of the main stuff for people who didn't live in was on the first floor anyway. And our chapter meetings were held in classrooms, and those buildings were accessible.

As for why someone in a wheelchair was cut, we will never know since we were not in MS. But I have seen girls cut for all kinds of things that seemed stupid or petty.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by skylark

This makes me think of something I read the other day about a law school that had to go "peanut-free." (here is a link to a discussion on another site: http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/11/d...ating_witc.php)

Apparently, since many things are cooked in peanut oil, it isn't just about not eating peanuts. There are a lot of things off-limits, and even being in the same room as some of that stuff can send some people with severe allergies into a reaction.

I would never encourage discrimination, but I get the impression from many posters here that they are assuming most chapters could reasonably accommodate nearly every disability. The fact of the matter is that many chapters are simply not financially/practically able to accommodate for every specific disability that PNMs might potentially have. If chapters can accommodate, that is great. But any kind of blanket "we should accommodate any disability" statement is simply naive.

I agree. My campus does not have seperate Greek housing for women. Because we're in the dorms, we're at the mercy of the school. Sure, seperate housing would be cool, and we've talked about it, but our chapters just don't have the resources on our hands, currently, to do that. There are girls with disabilities in our chapters, but I can think of at least two chapters that are housed in dorms without elevators. That's not their fault. It would be very hard on both the new member and the chapter to accomodate a woman in a wheelchair for instance. They would not be able to have chapter functions in chapter housing unless someone could carry the woman upstairs. The woman wouldn't ever be able to live on the hall, as her day to day life would be too difficult without an elevator. She would have a hard time participating in recruitment on both sides, as our campus is difficult to navigate even with all your abilities. This is a mutual selection process as well and it's just not fair to assume that is the only reason she did not get a bid. I'm not blind to the faults of the system, and it could very well have been a factor, but I strongly doubt it was the only one.

[skylark]

Maybe it is just me, but I would have a hard time asking a member to join a sorority with the understanding that the sorority is not willing to have her live in the house -- especially if many of the benefits of the sorority that her dues are used for are related to the house facilities. While it may be possible for the situation to occur and for everything to work out fine, it would be an awkward bid to extend, for sure.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by skylark

Maybe it is just me, but I would have a hard time asking a member to join a sorority with the understanding that the sorority is not willing to have her live in the house -- especially if many of the benefits of the sorority that her dues are used for are related to the house facilities. While it may be possible for the situation to occur and for everything to work out fine, it would be an awkward bid to extend, for sure.

As with many situations...it really depends on the campus. If her campus is one in which sorority life is not very prominent, or they don't have big, expensive houses, then I would not even consider that an issue. Even if the sorority DOES have a house, as long as the main facilities [not bedrooms, I mean like the meeting room and main areas] are accessible to her, she should not complain about the dues towards the house. Although it is not her fault that she is disabled, it is also not the fault of the sorority - and neither should be punished, either by not being able to extend a bid or not being able to accept one.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

As with many situations...it really depends on the campus. If her campus is one in which sorority life is not very prominent, or they don't have big, expensive houses, then I would not even consider that an issue. Even if the sorority DOES have a house, as long as the main facilities [not bedrooms, I mean like the meeting room and main areas] are accessible to her, she should not complain about the dues towards the house. Although it is not her fault that she is disabled, it is also not the fault of the sorority - and neither should be punished, either by not being able to extend a bid or not being able to accept one.

And generally speaking if someone doesn't live in the house their dues are less anyway.