vaccinate your kids, or else!!

[nikki1920]

As a former PG County resident:
this happens every year. There are free shot clinics, notices sent out in every language imaginable and info sent on how to opt out of the requirement for religious or medical reasons.

If a parent has gone this long without getting the kid vaccinated, then yes, fine them or lock them up. We have this issue every year and I refuse to believe parents who say they didnt know about this. I also dont buy the argument that they cant afford it. If your child has Medicaid, its included in well baby/child checkups. If your kid doesnt qualify for Medicaid, the County always has shot clinics during the summer, during school, during breaks, etc. I think a lot of it is laziness and or ignorance on the part of the parents.

[nikki1920]

DaemonSeid:

also, you have to look at the population of students where those 2 teachers are teaching. I think that assessment was a bit narrowminded. I see the point you were trying to make, though.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nikki1920

DaemonSeid:

also, you have to look at the population of students where those 2 teachers are teaching. I think that assessment was a bit narrowminded. I see the point you were trying to make, though.

Thank you

and BTW...

Bowie MD and Baltimore City is where they teach nikki

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

May I ask, was it a sudden change? Had he been a "normal" infant/toddler until that point? I think every parent worries most about that potential - their seemingly "normal" child just one day "changes" (for lack of a better word) into a completely different child.

Yes, I would say it was a fairly sudden change -- not necessaily a night-and-day change but a quite noticeable change. It really was like he just retreated into a shell and just peeked back out. Later we could see that he wanted to come out, but had no clue how.

I'll agree about that fear. It's so hard to figure out -- has he really changed or did he just hit a developmental hump?

I think it's wonderful he's doing so well, and obviously has a dad (and family) who care very much for him.

Well, his mom is a Kappa, so he's a lucky kid.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

The best you can do right now is boost your child's health with several essential vitamins proven safe for developing children... I would "bathe them" with as much boosters as I could give them--organic, natural, pure, of course... It is expensive of course...

Don't I know it! We've been doing that, and as I said, he's doing well. I think part of the reason is that we have been doing what you suggested.

On top of that, I think there are psychological/emotional reasons that we have seen improvement (which means an easier time for him navigating the social skills world). Plus, he (and we) have been blessed with teachers and school administrators (yes, in the public school system!) who value him, who want to see him succeed, who are willing to try and understand how his mind works and use appropriate strategies with him, and who identify his strengths and play off them to help him with his weaknesses. But those things are another thread.

But, yeah, what you describe mirrors along with my (completely unprofessional) thoughts about it all. I have described it as "the perfect storm" between a pre-existing disposition and triggers that set things in motion.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Don't I know it! We've been doing that, and as I said, he's doing well. I think part of the reason is that we have been doing what you suggested.

On top of that, I think there are psychological/emotional reasons that we have seen improvement (which means an easier time for him navigating the social skills world). Plus, he (and we) have been blessed with teachers and school administrators (yes, in the public school system!) who value him, who want to see him succeed, who are willing to try and understand how his mind works and use appropriate strategies with him, and who identify his strengths and play off them to help him with his weaknesses. But those things are another thread.

But, yeah, what you describe mirrors along with my (completely unprofessional) thoughts about it all. I have described it as "the perfect storm" between a pre-existing disposition and triggers that set things in motion.

Let me know if he catches a cold or something and how fast it clears up, I have a theory... You know how children catch things? And as always, follow your normal course of healthcare with your child--please do not withhold it!

All I want to know is the time he comes down with symptoms, what was his mental state, then when the issue became resolved to "normal" (with or without direct medical intervention). You can PM me.

It could be a cold, a scrape or bruise, cut, boil or sty--anything--so if he scrapes his knee, and you put neosporin on it, how long did it take to completely heal to relatively normalcy?

SPECULATION: Are there immune system problems in autism?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

SPECULATION: Are there immune system problems in autism?

Are you looking at the whole autism spectrum? Little MysticCat is Asperger's, and I love MysticCat's stories about him - he seems like such a neat kid.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Let me know if he catches a cold or something and how fast it clears up, I have a theory... You know how children catch things? And as always, follow your normal course of healthcare with your child--please do not withhold it!

All I want to know is the time he comes down with symptoms, what was his mental state, then when the issue became resolved to "normal" (with or without direct medical intervention). You can PM me.

It could be a cold, a scrape or bruise, cut, boil or sty--anything--so if he scrapes his knee, and you put neosporin on it, how long did it take to completely heal to relatively normalcy?

SPECULATION: Are there immune system problems in autism?

Off the top of my head, it seems like he usually moves through colds and other illnesses pretty fast, although like me, he's a had a runny nose for a week or so now. Other than that, he doesn't get sick that often.

This summer he cut his knee and needed stitches -- it seemed to heal in about the time the doctors expected it to. (When he went to get the stiches out, the dr. commented on how nicely it was healing.) If I think of or notice other examples, I'll PM.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Are you looking at the whole autism spectrum? Little MysticCat is Asperger's, and I love MysticCat's stories about him - he seems like such a neat kid.

Thanks! He is a neat kid. Technically, his diagnosis is high functioning autism. Although even the professionals often use HFA and and Asperger's interchangeably and we find it's often easier to use Asperger's because more people understand what it is, there is a technical diagnostic difference.

[nikki1920]

THANK. YOU.
How hard is it to sign a paper?

*says the social services worker*

[BigRedBeta]

No offense to anyone here, but in my humble, yet growing medical opinion, there is (other than religious) ABSOLUTELY no reason not to vaccinate your children on schedule. I say this as current medical student and future pediatrician.

An admittedly cursory search through abstracts on PubMed with the search term "Immunizations AND autism" yielded no studies in any medical journals which could establish a significant link between immunization status and autism spectrum disorders. Until a study can show that the increased incidence of autism isn't due to increased awareness, increased availability of early intervention services, and a broadening of diagnostic categories, the prudent course of action will continue to be the full course of vaccinations. Seriously, I've had parents come in literally begging for a diagnosis of autism so they can get special services. And yet their children weren't even borderline and acted completely appropriate. This is also not a case of pharmaceutical companies trying to make a profit. Vaccines are much cheaper than courses of treatments for any of the diseases that they prevent. That's the whole point - vaccines not only prevent death but are more cost-efficient than treating the actual disease. For example, the Gardasil vaccines which, are the most expensive vaccines I currently know of, run more than $300 for the sequence...that's A LOT cheaper than having to deal with treatment of cervical cancer! If vaccines weren't cheaper than effective treatments for a disease, it would make zero sense to give the vaccines.

If you're worried about the number of shots your child gets at one time - I can understand that a little better, however there are new combo vaccines being developed by the pharmaceutical companies at this point which I believe are in Phase III clinical trials with good results.

I can't stress it enough that vaccines are important. When sick children present with incomplete vaccination histories, it completely alters the way in which pediatricians think, and leads to decisions that cost families emotionally, physically, and financially due to having to prepare for the worst case scenario.

Finally, Mark Twain said

"Be careful what you read in health texts, you may die of a misprint".

I can't stress this enough when you are doing research on the internet. Please, please, please consider the source, not only for bias but also accuracy, completeness and trustworthiness.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

No offense to anyone here, but in my humble, yet growing medical opinion, there is (other than religious) ABSOLUTELY no reason not to vaccinate your children on schedule. I say this as current medical student and future pediatrician.

In my humble opinion as a parent, I believe it is well within my rights to choose to delay vaccinations if I feel it is in the best interest of my child(ren). My child (and any future ones we may have) will all be vaccinated appropriately by the time they enter kindergarten (most likely even by the time they enter preschool). I will not skip vaccinations (except varicella. I'm still undecided on that. There are benefits and risks to both the vaccination and catching chicken pox naturally.) I will not let my child have his shots if he is in any way sick, even if he just has a small cold (which is how we got delayed in the first place). But I will always catch up, even if it takes a few months or a year. Our family doctor (who serves as my son's pediatrician) is completely understanding and on board with this.

Again in my humble opinion as a parent, the best thing you can do as a future pediatrician is continue your research and allow yourself an open conversation with your patients parents. Talk with them and work with them on figuring out a schedule that works for them if they feel very strongly about vaccinations. Don't try and push your personal opinions on them. Almost every parent I know who has chosen to delay has done extensive research - reading books (both pro and con) and reports from the CDC - and come to their decision independently.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

No offense to anyone here, but in my humble, yet growing medical opinion, there is (other than religious) ABSOLUTELY no reason not to vaccinate your children on schedule. I say this as current medical student and future pediatrician.

Well, you're a medical student right now--every professional who's had to have additional education (ie, medicine, law, etc.) always says that they learned more during their first six months on the job than they did in school. I know I certainly did. So, between now and the end of your first year as a doctor, your opinion might change as you get more practical experience.

There was an article not too long ago that urged parents to trust their own instincts about their kids a little more instead of giving into doctors' opinions right away. I can't find the link, though.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Well, you're a medical student right now--every professional who's had to have additional education (ie, medicine, law, etc.) always says that they learned more during their first six months on the job than they did in school. I know I certainly did. So, between now and the end of your first year as a doctor, your opinion might change as you get more practical experience.

There was an article not too long ago that urged parents to trust their own instincts about their kids a little more instead of giving into doctors' opinions right away. I can't find the link, though.

If I recall that article also said to take the doctor's opinions into account, as they do know more. To refuse to vaccinate and put other people's kids at risk is foolish, and I doubt those people took the doctors studies into account.

Vaccinations are not something that doctors change their mind about, more experience or not.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by kstar

If I recall that article also said to take the doctor's opinions into account, as they do know more. To refuse to vaccinate and put other people's kids at risk is foolish, and I doubt those people took the doctors studies into account.

Vaccinations are not something that doctors change their mind about, more experience or not.

Nowhere did I say that I was against vaccinations--obviously an educated, savvy parent like ISUKappa seems to be would probably have done enough research to make an informed decision. Doctors may not change their minds about vaccinations--but there's a huge gap between being a "medical student" and being an actual physicia, isn't there?

RE: chicken pox vaccinations, I WISH I would have gotten it, or at least the damned pox in the first place. My mother was creeped out by the idea of my sister and I getting it (we stayed at home with her, so it was easy to limit our exposure to pox-ridden kids), and my sister and I got it at 21 and 15, respectively, and we were both really really sick. I was in Driver's Ed that semester and missed two weeks of school; it also blew my class rank.

[AKA_Monet]

Not to belittle anyone's experience, but MayoClinic says that most people think their children are getting autism after the MMR (mumps-measles-rubella) vaccination... They also say there is no clinical proof of that occurring.

But I have an idea.

This vaccine use to be a heat-killed virus vaccination. Now it is the double stranded DNA... It works "sufficiently". There is an additive, such as BSA (bovine serum albumin) or gelatin (from pork) or ovalbumin (from chicken) to mount an immune response from the human body.

I think these short nucleotides are serving a strong primers or DNA-isomers that could cause a DNA adduction attack that activates several gene processes involving cancer. Since there is no cancer, about 75% of the DNA vaccine is incorporated into the macrophage or APC before presentation to the T-cell. Many children do not have fully matured T-cells through thymic education. Ultimately, the T-cells incorporate the DNA vaccine and tell the B-cells what to fight against when making antibodies.

HOWEVER!!! It is the WAY we are making the DNA--most DNA in cells is chemically modified, but a variety of processes, then they become nascent DNA--unmodified for variety of reasons. However, in the lab, we do not modify the DNA... Heat killing the virus would disable the viral parts of the virus, but not remove it chemical modification... In this case, it probably is methylated.

The first thing one learns in DNA isolation and purification is that DNA is kept nascent. Occasionally, we would be unable to cut DNA with molecular scissors, restriction enzymes, but usually, most DNA from the current amplification bacteria we use ONLY generates nascent DNA.

I am only speculating, but this may be the first evidence of epigenetic malformation resulting from nascent DNA. The DNA must be modified for an effective vaccination...

Because, there are various forms of autism. It does not have gross anatomical pathology as measured by MRI or other mechanisms. Some young people are fully functional as best as they could be. And I have heard cases of young people becoming adults who have minimal symptoms of autism. It may very well be a full epigenetic affect and they way it appears on PubMed, that it may occur in the auricle and proximal cortical regions in the brain... DNA in the brain is often either RNA from rapid protein generation or modified for quick regulation...

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

He's just lucky his daddy's a Sinfonian.

I remember when I was studying Music Therapy - autism was a HUGE part of our clientel. I had two autistic kids as clients, and it took them 4 weeks to learn my name, but 3 months later, I had them singing "Jamaican Farewell" and playing the ukelelis with it.

I did some research, and it sounds like the hair cells may be affected. If I were to do a clinical trial, and received an IRB and recruited a significant number, I w ould hope I could find variations via array technology variations pre and post vaccination.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

No offense to anyone here, but in my humble, yet growing medical opinion, there is (other than religious) ABSOLUTELY no reason not to vaccinate your children on schedule. I say this as current medical student and future pediatrician.

An admittedly cursory search through abstracts on PubMed with the search term "Immunizations AND autism" yielded no studies in any medical journals which could establish a significant link between immunization status and autism spectrum disorders. Until a study can show that the increased incidence of autism isn't due to increased awareness, increased availability of early intervention services, and a broadening of diagnostic categories, the prudent course of action will continue to be the full course of vaccinations.

I admire your statements and your courage to present your opinion here. I also think we seriously need to examine how we are vaccinating our children from a Public Health perspective.

Like I said, they no longer even make the polio or smallpox vaccines with heat killed viruses containing adjuvants. Most vaccines are nucleic acid based. That doesn't mean we do not follow schedules, that just means we re-examine conventional wisdom with newer technology and better markers.

Autism is a nasty disorder and there is very little understanding as to why there are increased diagnoses of it. Vaccines may be one factor, mythological or not. But Measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria-pertussis and tuberculosis is NOT a myth...

Ultimately, the qualified professionals will be making their best diagnosis based on recommendations by the government and various societies and it is going to be tough.