Montreal Woman Sues Gay Bar For Kicking Her Out

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by RACooper

You should see some of the trendier openings around Yorkville, College, or the Entertainment/Financial District - I've been to more than a few that project or show 'softcore' porn to "accent the sensuality of the food and meal" (quoting a program). As for clubs...

I guess I live in the wrong town. Being an old fashioned girl sounds like a big no-no in this town (and maybe even this country, sad to say). Almost frowned upon.

[UGAalum94]

Taualumna,

I will back you up that going to a gay bar with your dad is not typical.

I will further back you up that restaurants that show porn are not "normal" as the word is commonly understood.

Now, I've got no problem with anyone going to gay bars with their dads or having restaurants that show porn but the people giving the "what's the big deal?" kind of response seem to be working hard to pull a "hipper than thou" attitude. Although I can conceive of an occasion like RACooper describes, I suspect that it's a pretty small segment of the population that would feel so entirely comfortable with that situation as to actually seek it out. Most of us don't seek sexual charged environments for outings with our parents. Nope, we don't.

I hope the women from the article sues. She's been discriminated against based on her sex, and it seems pretty clear cut.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I hope the women from the article sues. She's been discriminated against based on her sex, and it seems pretty clear cut.

But how is that different from say, "Ladies Only" gyms? If gay guys want to be somewhere "sans" the ladies, why not let them be?

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Being an old fashioned girl sounds like a big no-no in this town (and maybe even this country, sad to say). .

Please.... do some travelling around the world so that you will truly come to know and appreciate the rights and freedoms that you enjoy living in the country that you do: being permitted to drive, being permitted to vote, being permitted to be in the company of men who are not your brother, father or husband, being able to "choose" who you will marry, being recognized as a "person" rather than the property of your father and husband... I could go on and on, but suffice it to say, as someone who has been to the Middle East, Africa and Asia, the rest of the world is not like North America.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

But how is that different from say, "Ladies Only" gyms? If gay guys want to be somewhere "sans" the ladies, why not let them be?

Ladies only gyms require membership. This was a walk in type of place.

Please.... do some travelling around the world so that you will truly come to know and appreciate the rights and freedoms that you enjoy living in the country that you do: being permitted to drive, being permitted to vote, being permitted to be in the company of men who are not your brother, father or husband, being able to "choose" who you will marry, being recognized as a "person" rather than the property of your father and husband... I could go on and on, but suffice it to say, as someone who has been to the Middle East, Africa and Asia, the rest of the world is not like North America.

Right, but in THIS part of the world, someone who wants to be old fashioned is criticized while someone who is "liberal" is applauded. I post at TWOP, and while I don't necessarily agree with EVERYTHING Elisabeth H (can't spell her last name) from The View has to say, I also don't like how she is attacked for her views.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Ladies only gyms require membership. This was a walk in type of place.

No, they have "drop ins" too.

Despite my "liberal" views, I don't think everything has to be co-ed. Leave "ladies only" establishments to be "ladies only", and leave "men only" establishments to be men only. This whole lawsuit is much ado about nothing.

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Right, but in THIS part of the world, someone who wants to be old fashioned is criticized while someone who is "liberal" is applauded.

I think the criticism comes from the lack of gratitude that you exhibit for those (gasp!) "liberal" pioneers and trailblazers who came before you. Dare I call these women (gasp!) feminists? http://www.famous5.ca/ (The Famous Five are pictured on the back of the $50.00 dollar bill and they are the ones who got recognition of women as persons under the British North America Act.). Without being recognized as a "person", you could not vote, you could not have a passport, you could not have rightful access to education, I could go on and on......

But if you prefer a country that has a more "traditional" view of women, I understand that Saudi Arabia is lovely at this time of year.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Actually we went after golf.... and the place (just like anywhere gay, straight, or whatever) wasn't showing porn since it wasn't after 9pm.

Besides it was a business visit of sorts, my Dad was looking into some accounting issues Rick was having settling his estate (he was dying of brain cancer at the time) and as a business meeting he wanted to meet close to Rick's place and somewhere with a good Scotch selection - and back in the day the place had one of the better selections of Scotch and cigars (it catered to an older more 'powerful' crowd of businessmen and poltical types).

I got to try some truely amazing scotches and had an actually very interesting converstation with Rick's partner - the guy was an avid Civil War buff and collector.

So no there was no crying (well maybe some at trying the Benromach Vintage 1968), just a friendly gathering on the patio people watching (and mocking) while my Dad went through the papers and caught-up - not all of us are closeminded bigots or homophobes like you

If I'm closeminded for thinking it is unacceptable and pretty much disgusting to put your children in that kind of situation..........then so be it.

As for being bigoted and homophobic..........I am neither intolerant towards nor am I afraid of gay people. I do though, think it is completely immoral, unnatural, and something that I frown upon when considering my religion.

My comments were more about the fact that I find it simply ridiculous that parents would take their child to a gay bar and find it perfectly normal and acceptable.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

No, they have "drop ins" too.

Despite my "liberal" views, I don't think everything has to be co-ed. Leave "ladies only" establishments to be "ladies only", and leave "men only" establishments to be men only. This whole lawsuit is much ado about nothing.

But these places that allow drop ins also have membership packages/programs. And most people take on some form of membership. A bar/restaurant refusing to serve because someone is of the wrong gender is just different from being denied membership/access to an organization.

I think the criticism comes from the lack of appreciation that you exhibit for those (gasp!) "liberal" pioneers and trailblazers who came before you. Dare I call these women (gasp!) feminists? http://www.famous5.ca/ (The Famous Five are pictured on the back of the $50.00 dollar bill and they are the ones who got recognition of women as persons under the British North America Act.). Without being recognized as a "person", you could not vote, you could not have a passport, you could not have rightful access to education, I could go on and on......

But if you prefer a country that has a more "traditional" view of women, I understand that Saudi Arabia is lovely at this time of year.

Actually women got the (federal--women in Quebec couldn't vote provincially until the 1940s) vote in Canada a decade (1919) before the "persons" case (1929).

While I appreciate what the Famous 5 did, I still prefer to be an "old fashioned" type and should not be criticized by people, such as the left for doing so. Conservative people are criticized wherever they go these days while the only liberals receive the same treatment are those who do not know how to themselves properly (i.e. Rosie O'Donnell...would LOVE to send her to the same finishing/charm school her wife went to (I believe Kelli went to one...after all, she was a debutante!)).

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by macallan25

My comments were more about the fact that I find it simply ridiculous that parents would take their child to a gay bar and find it perfectly normal and acceptable.

macallan25, no one is saying that this place would be suitable for a "child" (i.e. someone aged 0-17), but the daughter in this case is 20 years old. She and her father are both adults and could have chosen to go somewhere else if the supposed TV displays offended them (and as RACooper pointed out earlier in the thread, there would have been no porn airing anyway, as it was the late-afternoon. I suspect that the journalist threw the detail in, about pornography being shown on TV screens, to contribute to the sensationalism of the story). It would appear that they chose to stay, so I guess they weren't offended by the supposed pornography on the TVs (and chances are, there was NO PORN BEING SHOWN AT THAT TIME OF DAY as it was the daytime)...but hey, based on their names and the fact that this happened in Montreal, they are "French" after all (French-Canadian, that is)....LOL

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

macallan25, no one is saying that this place would be suitable for a "child" (i.e. someone aged 0-17), but the daughter in this case is 20 years old. She and her father are both adults and could have chosen to go somewhere else if the TV displays offended them. It would appear that they chose to stay, so I guess they weren't offended by pornography...hey, based on their names and the fact that this happened in Montreal, they are "French" after all (French-Canadian, that is)....LOL

I feel it's only fair to point out again that while the place would show porn on the "party nights" it wasn't during the day when the sidewalk patio was open, and when the woman in question and her father visited the place to take advantage of said patio.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by RACooper

I feel it's only fair to point out again that while the place would show porn on the "party nights" it wasn't during the day when the sidewalk patio was open, and when the woman in question and her father visited the place to take advantage of said patio.

Yes, I was just going to say that the article states that they were there in the late-afternoon, so going by what you say, there was no porn airing at that time of day anyway. And yes, daytime operations are very different from the nighttime operations.

[UGAalum94]

From the article:

"Montreal's Gay Chamber of Commerce and Société de développement commercial du Village called on Le Stud to "respect the Quebec Charter of Rights and Freedoms," which bans discrimination based on gender or sexual orientation."

So while some of us might find some occasions of discrimination based on sex acceptable, gyms and sororities spring to mind, they apparently don't let bars in Quebec which are generally open to the public discriminate in this way and I hope she sues the chaps off them.

Just because you were a group previously discriminated against doesn't make discriminating against others in public accommodation a good thing.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

Yes, I was just going to say that the article states that they were there in the late-afternoon, so going by what you say, there was no porn airing at that time of day anyway. And yes, daytime operations are very different from the nighttime operations.

But the daytime operations weren't so different that they would allow a woman to stay. Interesting, I think.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

While I appreciate what the Famous 5 did, I still prefer to be an "old fashioned" type and should not be criticized by people, such as the left for doing so. Conservative people are criticized wherever they go these days while the only liberals receive the same treatment are those who do not know how to themselves properly

Look . . . if you can pull yourself down from the cross for a minute, you really REALLY need to consider that just as you decry "liberal" mindsets (and criticize their lifestyle/choices, as you have here), they are doing the same to you. It is hypocritical for you to think this is a one-way deal, just as it is hypocritical for them to deride you for being 'traditional' - grab some objectivity, and stay a while.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

But the daytime operations weren't so different that they would allow a woman to stay. Interesting, I think.

But maybe if women are in there during the daytime, what if they want to stay until closing time and they can't kick them out so that the gay men will feel more comfortable getting their freak started with each other? Who knows.....

And in other news, a man is demanding to join that womens only fitness club (and I use the term "fitness club" loosely), "Curves".
http://www.hfxnews.ca/index.cfm?sid=34246&sc=89

Oy......

[UGAalum94]

I think the main difference is that the bar would be public and open to all men but no women and the fitness clubs, while not particularly exclusive, are private and have somewhat more limited memberships, but I don't know.

If you have an absolute no discrimination policy, then you've got to let all interested parties join, sit on the patio with dad, whatever.