Student housing questions

[JonoBN41]

A dorm is not like a hotel. Paying for the double room doesn't pay for the lost tuition of another student who could be living there and attending school.

In effect, this kid is kicking another kid out of college. What gives him the right to do that?

[john1082]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

http://www.azada.gov/RightsInfo/PubAccom.asp

I appreciatethe link to the codes. I was thinking about crusing overto the law school @ Chapman University to look these up.

The downside to this whole affair is that I'd have to ask the State of Arizona AG to enforce the law againstthe State of Arizona, his employer. That is a tough thing to do. Much better to find some Federal case law that settles the issue.

To compound the situation, the plaintiff wouldn't come off as a sympathetic plaintiff. He's not from Arizona, is overweight, and pursues "an alternate lifestyle". A gay plaintiff just wouldn't garner much support for anything in the State of Arizona.

Matter came to me via a colleague in Alaska who knows that do some work on college campuses - I guess being a High Pi without chapter does this!

[john1082]

Originally Posted by JonoBN41

A dorm is not like a hotel. Paying for the double room doesn't pay for the lost tuition of another student who could be living there and attending school.

In effect, this kid is kicking another kid out of college. What gives him the right to do that?

It is called a reasonable accomodation and for the past two years it has been acceptable with the university. Now there is a new housing administrator who wants butts in rooms.

He isn't depriving a kid from attending the university, just from a bed in a dorm. If the kid who doesn't get into the dorm can handle living downtown and this kid can't then should the non-disabled kid oust the disabled kid from the school? That is the flip side of your argument.

School for the fittest?

[GammaZeta]

Jono, John is right about mental disabilities. I personally suffer from ADHD and OCD, but thankfully I have them pretty much under control. Don't tell me it doesn't affect people's lives. Don't tell me it doesn't affect my life when I have to check to make sure I locked the door 5 times and that I unplugged the iron 7 times, for reasons I don't even know or understand, before heading to class or leaving my apartment. I used to HAVE to do it.

If it was in Mass., I could help you out more John. If you need some research done, let me know (lexisnexis and westlaw here I come!).

Personally, I just think the admin. needs a kick in the pants. I really do think that kick needs to be filing with the AG as well as whoever enforces the ADA standards on a state level.

I think I read while quickly looking over the law briefly that there are some free counsel available in Az. for filing such a complaint.

I don't have the time tonight to look any further unfortunately.

[Trey_P-I_47]

Yeah I was gonna suggest an apartment myself, but if he is incapable of handling that then there is no reason why he shouldnt be allowed to stay in a double by himself as long as he is paying.

I can also personally attest to the fact that living off campus is somewhat cheaper, most Colleges make you purchase a meal plan if you live on campus, which at my school was a waste of $3000, more than enough to cover rent, and then I dont have to pay room and board either so I was sitting on $6000 owed to the school to be cramped up in a dorm and eat crappy caf food at most twice a day (when I ate there), especially when I was paying for 3. So based on my math it was more economical to rent an apartment, buy my own food, and travel, than it was for me to live on campus, eat the worst food imaginable, and have to live by their rules.....NO THANK YOU

[GammaZeta]

Yeah, Trey's situation was the same at my school. It was cheaper, and easier to live off capus. Look into it!

[EM1843]

John I don't think that you have to involve the AG to enforce it, you can file a civil suit for an injunction, or so it would seem to me in my reading of the codes. There has to be an AZ attorney who does this sort of thing.

[GammaZeta]

Yes, EM may be right. Here in Massachusetts, discrimination cases must originate with MCAD, Mass. Commission Against Discrimination.

[lambdaindenver]

John - is there a reason why the student has to live in the dormitories. It would seem to be a reasonable accomodation for him to live in an apartment off campus - thus providing the privacy which he needs for his medical condition. I don't believe that NAU has a requirement that juniors live in the dormitories.

If he is wanting to live in the dormitories because he does not want to have to worry about meals, then the reasonable accomodation is to pay for the meal plan and live off campus. Money does not appear to be the issue.

If his condition is such that he can live off campus, then I don't think that NAU has to provide him with a single room.

Why aren't the student and his parents engaged in a discussion with the University? That is their obligation.

[john1082]

Originally Posted by lambdaindenver

John - is there a reason why the student has to live in the dormitories. It would seem to be a reasonable accomodation for him to live in an apartment off campus - thus providing the privacy which he needs for his medical condition. I don't believe that NAU has a requirement that juniors live in the dormitories.

If he is wanting to live in the dormitories because he does not want to have to worry about meals, then the reasonable accomodation is to pay for the meal plan and live off campus. Money does not appear to be the issue.

If his condition is such that he can live off campus, then I don't think that NAU has to provide him with a single room.

Why aren't the student and his parents engaged in a discussion with the University? That is their obligation.

Student and school are in Arizona and the parents are in Alaska. The school is givingthe kid the brush-off.

Apparently there IS a dorm that in the past has provided single rooms for upperclassmen. This kid will be an upperclassman next year. BUT

The school is converting said upperclass dorm with singles into freshman doubles. Upperclassmen currently residing in said doem can keep their singles next year via grandfathering. Client, who has a single for his first two years as an accomodation is told that he isn't grandfathered in as the upperclassmen were.

Seems as if the housing folks are playing "WHACKAMOLE" with the rules. As soon as one rule is dealt with they come up with another. Testing, not on meds, taking too many meds (he takes 1), dorm conversions, decision makers unavailable...

To compound it, when the kid tries to talk to them the anxiety kicks in and he loses focus on the argument.

I agree that an apartment downtown would likely be the optimal solution, but clients don't always want the optimal answer. As a result I may be visiting Flagstaff next week.

[Tom Earp]

John, I take it that ASU is not a small school worried about losing seats in the school as Brother Jono refers to!

While this student has problems, one would think that there can be exceptions as long as the room is completely paid for by one or two persons.

I am sure if He was a Brother of ours or by blood there would be some concern by one or many.

[john1082]

It's Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff, not ASU. They are on an admissions kick and are attempting to grow up from a small school to a "player" in Arizona collegiate education. Personally, I think they have a case of 'campus envy'.

Lots and lots of building on campus. Plus there is a Greek dorm. Very, very nice. Houses are selected to occupy the place. If Indy should ever decided to come west for a new colony then NAU would bear investigation. But my Spidey Sense tells me that the best we can hope for out here is a slow reopening of our closed cjapters at Santa Barbara and perhaps UCLA. Cal? Don't even know if it is on the radar.

[HONKY660]

Originally Posted by john1082

Lots and lots of building on campus. Plus there is a Greek dorm. Very, very nice. Houses are selected to occupy the place. If Indy should ever decided to come west for a new colony then NAU would bear investigation. But my Spidey Sense tells me that the best we can hope for out here is a slow reopening of our closed cjapters at Santa Barbara and perhaps UCLA. Cal? Don't even know if it is on the radar.

When the ELC was in town visiting my chapter last month he told me that that if they went back to Arizona, it would probably be at NAU. Fresh new start at a new campus. Apparently the other Arizona campuses we were at, don't seem worth going back to at the moment. State of the greek system in those schools isn't good he said.

[john1082]

Originally Posted by HONKY660

When the ELC was in town visiting my chapter last month he told me that that if they went back to Arizona, it would probably be at NAU. Fresh new start at a new campus. Apparently the other Arizona campuses we were at, don't seem worth going back to at the moment. State of the greek system in those schools isn't good he said.

"State of the greek system isn't good" seems to be the stock Indianapolis answer these days.

NAU appears to have a greek positive (an worst greek neutral) administration. Minimal distractions and relatively few bars near campus - as opposed to ASU & Tempe. I believe that we ought to look at NAU but I don't know if we have a viable alumni base there. With the conditions imposed on new colonies now I don't know if the requisite alumni could be found there to support a colony.

[PiLambda1]

Originally Posted by john1082

"State of the greek system isn't good" seems to be the stock Indianapolis answer these days.

NAU appears to have a greek positive (an worst greek neutral) administration. Minimal distractions and relatively few bars near campus - as opposed to ASU & Tempe. I believe that we ought to look at NAU but I don't know if we have a viable alumni base there. With the conditions imposed on new colonies now I don't know if the requisite alumni could be found there to support a colony.

I liked Biff's outline of those requirements, but I would say they are more
strong suggestions than steadfast law. I noticed that one of the requirements
said that the school must be a 4 year undergraduate school. STLCOP
doesn't meet that by a long shot. We are a 6 year doctoral program.

Of course, we have a wealth of alumni base in STL...



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