Do you think your organization's risk management policies go overboard?

[AGDee]

I'm surprised I haven't said this in this thread yet, because I think it every time I read it...

The vast majority of these rules, especially things like the scavenger hunts, are set by our insurance companies. We have to have liability insurance and they dictate these things. The inter/national organizations don't have a lot of choices with these rules.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I'm surprised I haven't said this in this thread yet, because I think it every time I read it...

The vast majority of these rules, especially things like the scavenger hunts, are set by our insurance companies. We have to have liability insurance and they dictate these things. The inter/national organizations don't have a lot of choices with these rules.

This.

[Zeta13Girl]

Personally I think its kind of funny that two of the service fraternities on my campus are able to do more than we are with our new members ie: sister visits, scavanger hunts...etc.

At 6 years old my parents started having scavanger hunts at our birthday parties. twelve years later and I'm a legal adult and its not safe for me to do a scavanger hunt either as a new member or an initiated sister??? hmmm...

All activities must be optional for new members, but as an initiated sister the same optional activities are mandatory for me??? hmmm....

[Zeta13Girl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I'm surprised I haven't said this in this thread yet, because I think it every time I read it...

The vast majority of these rules, especially things like the scavenger hunts, are set by our insurance companies. We have to have liability insurance and they dictate these things. The inter/national organizations don't have a lot of choices with these rules.

pretty please if I sign a waiver that I won't sue or press charges can I go on a scavanger hunt. LOL!

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The vast majority of these rules, especially things like the scavenger hunts, are set by our insurance companies. We have to have liability insurance and they dictate these things. The inter/national organizations don't have a lot of choices with these rules.

Ten years ago, I would have said that they were too strict. Then I saw the budget for Pre-Clamp-Down and Post-Clamp-Down.

The bottom line is, for an inter/national organization, you have no choice. You have to do without "fun" things in the name of the GLO, and pay for insurance that sounds ridiculous. Each time you disobey these rules, you may as well say, "I'm in the mood to raise dues by $100/month per brother or sister," because that's what you're talking.

When you hear alumnae say how little they paid for dues compared to what active members pay now, it all comes down to insurance.

[33girl]

It's not about going without "fun." It's about groups going so overboard with CYA measures (and often egged on by the insurance companies, who couldn't care less about the overall health of the GLO as long as they get their $$) that members come out of pledgeship with little to no knowledge of their group's history, operations or policies. Case in point: the huge amount of GC posts on "can I quit my sorority and pledge somewhere else?"

I mean, at this point, let's call a spade a spade and initiate people when we give them their bid, then educate them as members. It seems to be the only way to get around the asinine "hazing" accusations. If we end up having to terminate scores of people who turn out to be crappy members AFTER they know our ritual and have damaged the health of the chapter, well hey, no biggie.

Real hazing - beating, forced drinking, mental anguish - obviously hasn't been legislated away by all these rules or insurance policies. Just look at the U of Alberta thread. If all this has been done and there are STILL groups hazing in that manner, it's not very effective IMO. It's completely failed to send a message or make the students understand why it's wrong.

As far as alcohol goes, most of the problems would be completely eradicated if states were given back their right to allow drinking (fully or partially) at age 18.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's not about going without "fun." It's about groups going so overboard with CYA measures (and often egged on by the insurance companies, who couldn't care less about the overall health of the GLO as long as they get their $$) that members come out of pledgeship with little to no knowledge of their group's history, operations or policies. Case in point: the huge amount of GC posts on "can I quit my sorority and pledge somewhere else?"

You'd need to know whether that happened prior to anti-hazing laws and in what frequency.

What things could my chapter, for example, have done that would have been considered 'hazing' yet would have actually made me a better member? Why do those activities actually mean that people learn shit about anything?

I mean, at this point, let's call a spade a spade and initiate people when we give them their bid, then educate them as members. It seems to be the only way to get around the asinine "hazing" accusations. If we end up having to terminate scores of people who turn out to be crappy members AFTER they know our ritual and have damaged the health of the chapter, well hey, no biggie.

If you have to haze to get "good" members, you're only going to get people who value hazing.

Real hazing - beating, forced drinking, mental anguish - obviously hasn't been legislated away by all these rules or insurance policies. Just look at the U of Alberta thread. If all this has been done and there are STILL groups hazing in that manner, it's not very effective IMO. It's completely failed to send a message or make the students understand why it's wrong.

Without looking at the actual rate of the occurrence of those incidents this is a very flawed statement. "It hasn't completely solved the problem so we should get rid of it completely" doesn't make much sense. You'd have to show that there's been no effect or an increase to incidents of hazing to effectively make this point.

As far as alcohol goes, most of the problems would be completely eradicated if states were given back their right to allow drinking (fully or partially) at age 18.

States can make that choice at any time. They choose not to in exchange for $$$$. They have 'their right' fully intact.

Also if you think lowering the drinking age would magically change the drinking culture in America, I think you're being rather short-sighted. Binge drinking is accepted as normal for college students of age or not. Making it legal gets around only the legal issues, not the health, safety, or hazing ones.

[pinklion10]

Yes. One of my organizations forbids families, encourages to say "mentor and mentee" instead of "big and little", and disallows us to buy paddles to the point where if any of us are caught with them our charter would be revoked.

[PNMfall06]

i was the rik management chair for my chapter this past semester and we had two sisters get hit by a car after leaving our semi-formal. after going through that, i will never again say that any risk management rule goes too far. i cannot begin to tell you how many policies covered our butts. remember, all of the risk management policies are there for a reason, mostly because they could hurt someone or already has hurt someone. they aren't just stupid rules that came out of nowhere. the chance of someone getting hurt might be absolutly microscopic but it is there and the policy will help you recover if something does happen.

risk management is there to keep you safe

[creamrosecutie]

Personally I think that risk management is one of the most important things our execs do for us. Unfortunately we had a very serious accident last year at a Greek party, and thanks to our risk management education (which is required) the situation was able to be responsibly and properly dealt with. The fact that we are a group who are educated in crisis management can be helpful in many situations, not just in terms of policies protecting our organizations legally, but also in situations where accidents can occur.

[GooniePDT49]

I think risk management is one of the most important parts of the chapter. My school had a strong greek life in the 1970's and 80's, but due to excess partying, noise, and alcohol abuse the school went on to become a "dry" campus in the 1990's. They also started to blame the old greek system for many of the problems that arose from all this. Chapters were constantly under suspension and review and an incident in the early 1990's which caused the death of a pledge caused the entire Greek system to finally crumble and be banished from campus. When my chapter settled on campus in 2001, it was a very difficult process because of what had happened in the past. Law suits and liability has made risk management a very important part of the chapter structure. No one wants to get sued or arrested, then be labeled all over again.

[FratBama]

Yes, national fraternities stink. They want nothing social and pledgeship to be about hugs and kisses.

[ScarletBlueGold]

Risk management is one of the most important aspects of Fraternity Life. It is a vital part of keeping an organization alive. It teaches our future CEOs and business owners the value of determining the risk behind every action

Hazing legislation, on the other hand, is stupid

The wording is too vague, and it unfairly applies to some groups of people and not others.

It is the definition of poorly written legislation.

[Kevin]

Poorly written or poorly implemented or both?

[loveandAOE]

Yes.