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  #1  
Old 10-27-2006, 01:55 AM
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The first commissioned officer to publicly speak out against the war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehren_Watada
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  #2  
Old 10-27-2006, 07:41 AM
teena teena is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXEAM View Post
Like sheep......sorry teena I couldn't resist that one....but I do respect the opinions of yours & GIJANE
If you know like I know, you'd better HOPE that our military personnel are very much like sheep, otherwise we gonna be in a whole heap of trouble.

AXEAM, entertain me on this....if soldiers following orders without question or public dispute is sheeplike, how does pledging/being a part of a fraternal organizaton compare? I think the two are one in the same, except one's global impact being much more influential on global affairs.

I still say that unless they are revealing something scandalous, they should be quiet and stick to their mission.

Last edited by teena; 10-27-2006 at 07:50 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-28-2006, 12:27 AM
AXEAM AXEAM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teena View Post
If you know like I know, you'd better HOPE that our military personnel are very much like sheep, otherwise we gonna be in a whole heap of trouble.


To the contary I would rather military members who spoke out whenever they felt the mission wasn't honorable or right.....maybe years from now there may be a president who wants the military to take out his/her political opponents or attack American citizens.

AXEAM, entertain me on this....if soldiers following orders without question or public dispute is sheeplike, how does pledging/being a part of a fraternal organizaton compare? I think the two are one in the same, except one's global impact being much more influential on global affairs.


There are many differences.....besides those you pointed out.

I still say that unless they are revealing something scandalous, they should be quiet and stick to their mission.
I think when the troops are not provided w/ body armour this counts as scandalous...how can the troops succeed if they are not given the proper equipment. Also they were sold a bill of false goods, it's hard to put your life on the line for B.S.
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2006, 10:03 AM
teena teena is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXEAM View Post
I think when the troops are not provided w/ body armour this counts as scandalous...how can the troops succeed if they are not given the proper equipment. Also they were sold a bill of false goods, it's hard to put your life on the line for B.S.
got ya
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2006, 03:15 PM
dekeguy dekeguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXEAM View Post
I think when the troops are not provided w/ body armour this counts as scandalous...how can the troops succeed if they are not given the proper equipment. Also they were sold a bill of false goods, it's hard to put your life on the line for B.S.

Couple of thoughts here:
Body armor is not a cure-all to the dangers of combat. Training, alertness, agility, and concentration are far more valuable. Body armor is a nice to have extra under some circumstances, it is not a crucial requirement. If you have done a tour in-country you know what I mean. If not, ask some soldiers who have. They will tell you that training and alertness to surroundings beat hell out of all the heavy gear that protects part but not all of you. When the IED goes off, your head, arms, and legs are not covered. In most cases your gut is not protected. If you are using ceramic plate insert armor it weighs a ton and slows you down way too much. If you are using layered kevlar its good but it still slows down your agility and puts you at risk. If you are in the blast radius of a serious package it really doesn't matter what you are wearing, you are history, if you are lucky. You are mangled ground meat if not. A soldier who can "smell" an ambush comes home more or less in one piece. One who relies on protective armor had better have a lot of good luck. Rely on training and knowing how to anticipate trouble and counter it and you will be OK, unless its just that your number is up.
The basic equipment furnished to the American Soldier is the best ever fielded in history. The extras can often come with a price in human vulnerability that no soldier wants to pay. A new kid may desperately want all the extras he has heard about. As that soldier gains experience he will learn to pick and choose the gear that really suits the particular mission in which he is engaged at that time.
How can troops succeed? When they are well trained, equiped with really REQUIRED gear, and led by good NCOs and good Officers they are truly an awesome force that can do just about anything required of it.
As to their being sold a false bill of goods, the Army is not sold its missions, it receives its missions from the National Command Authority and carries out those missions. Its not a matter of having to be sold on anything. As I have said before, in the American tradition the Army is the instrument of the Government, the Government is not the instrument of the Army. We are founded on the absolute principle of civilian control. We don't pick and choose the fights we feel like accepting, and there are plenty of times when the Army sure as hell is not overjoyed by its job. If you don't like the policy the Army has to carry out then vote to change the policy makers, but don't ask the Army to meddle in National Policy. This country doesn't do Juntas and Military take-overs. Soldiers vote and will do so, but we don't choose the jobs we are willing to accept. We just get on with the job we are assigned.
In an all-volunteer military the choice is whether or not to take the Oath and commit to service. Once that choice is made we are good for our word. Its hard to put your life on the line for anything, but that is what Soldiers do. It comes with the territory.
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  #6  
Old 04-15-2007, 04:15 AM
TheGeneral TheGeneral is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teena View Post
Military personnel are not 'authorized' to have a vocal political opinion. I am very divided on if it is fair or not. I am more inclined toward believing that military personnel should shoot, communicate and move out-keeping their opinions inside their head. Our military system is deigned in a fashion that is contrary to democracy-to minimize dissention within units. Each member is well aware of the rules prior to enlisting. Violators can can incur judcial action.

Unless they are telling us something we dont already know, i think the media should not encourage them to possibly ruin their careers.
We are "authorized" to have a vocal political opinion. Just not in uniform or while conducting official military duties!!
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