Jack & Jill

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by black_princess

Though I don't have any children as of yet, I can't help but wonder, what does that mean for mothers and children who are not in these other organizations (where you say membership laps over), are not power players or big movers & shakers, or have the pleasure of knowing members? Instead, they are "regular people" who are successfully employed and do good work in their community. Does this mean that their kids are left out because of lack of connections although they may be good contributors to the organization? *Just thinking out loud*

Originally Posted by black_princess

But the main reason I ask is because I was working with a young man yesterday (school tutor) and he has soo much talent (he's published some of his poetry, he's a musician with a cd, a comedian, and an all around smart guy . . he calls himself a renniasance (sp) man). But his concern was that in the NY project in which he lives no one will ever "find" him (talent wise). I was just thinking that this 14 year old could possiblely benifit from that advantages and opportunities that J&J may offer, but how would he and other great students, parents, ect who may or may not be in such a difficult situation in the words of my student "get found" or find their way to the organization?

To put it bluntly, no. If you do not have networking connections, then you will not have these experiences. Yes, it sucks. This is the way the "game" is played. Even though there have been significant strides to make a "level playing field" over the last 50 years, the world still operates that way. Anyone who tells you it is different, is lying to you. Yes, it is crap.

Your question is: Can it be different or changed?

In some regions or areas of the country--the United States, no. In some other regions of this country, yes.

What does it take to change, A LOT of hardwork, energy and effort. In ALL that you do, it has to be that.

I have lived in my current city for ~4 years. I have already made a significant impact on concepts and things I felt that needed to be changed. The community I am interested in buffering and upholding is the African American community. Through my Sorority, I have introduced a Health Disparity Elimination related Health Forum. The forum will be sponsored by Komen for the Cure, Pfizer, Novartis, Eli Lilly, American Heart Association, Glida's club, Cancer Lifeline, PCC Natural Food Markets. The location was given to my chapter for FREE.

I am a professional healthcare provider and Yes, I did all of this for FREE. I was NOT paid for the hours I spent consulting and event planning. Most people get well over $5000 for this kind of job. I have the State Medical Director presenting, for free. I have one the state's best Breast Cancer Surgeons, presenting for FREE. I have another hospital's STD director presenting HIV/AIDS for FREE...

Kids feel these kinds of things should be given to them without any work.

For me to finagle all this, yes, I had to be a project whore. I had to attend bullisht-azzed meetings until the middle of night, spend several night away from my husband, get up EARLY in the morning to slang stuff.

That is the "name of the game".

And see, my husband thinks it is ALL about one's brain or intelligence... Yes, intelligence only allows to KEEP your job. But getting in there and meeting folks--NETWORKING--that is where you need to be...

Unsure about where to start?

COMMUNITY SERVICE in your area of interest... Non-profits always need help, that's a guarentee. In fact, in some med school, it is a requirement for admission...

[Senusret I]

Amen, amen, amen.

Tenacity, hard work, all that.

A few of my "organization-minded" friend always ask me "Don't you want to be in the Boule/Sigma Pi Phi?"

And I tell them "What can the Boule do for me that I can't do for myself?"

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Amen, amen, amen.

Tenacity, hard work, all that.

A few of my "organization-minded" friend always ask me "Don't you want to be in the Boule/Sigma Pi Phi?"

And I tell them "What can the Boule do for me that I can't do for myself?"

My dad, your fraternity brother is in the Boule... Whereas, IMO, your Fraternity (like my Sorority for me), can give you the hardwork and impetus to "BE" that difference, the Boule (and maybe the Links for me) is the networking or connection driver to see that enacted.

Some of father's business deals happened because of members of the Boule assisted him...

Not everyone needs all these things. But to be in a "high stakes game" you will have to ante up. This game is "high stakes" as much as they make you pay to be in the Boule...

[risingstar]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

To put it bluntly, no. If you do not have networking connections, then you will not have these experiences. Yes, it sucks. This is the way the "game" is played. Even though there have been significant strides to make a "level playing field" over the last 50 years, the world still operates that way. Anyone who tells you it is different, is lying to you. Yes, it is crap.

Your question is: Can it be different or changed?

In some regions or areas of the country--the United States, no. In some other regions of this country, yes.

What does it take to change, A LOT of hardwork, energy and effort. In ALL that you do, it has to be that.

I have lived in my current city for ~4 years. I have already made a significant impact on concepts and things I felt that needed to be changed. The community I am interested in buffering and upholding is the African American community. Through my Sorority, I have introduced a Health Disparity Elimination related Health Forum. The forum will be sponsored by Komen for the Cure, Pfizer, Novartis, Eli Lilly, American Heart Association, Glida's club, Cancer Lifeline, PCC Natural Food Markets. The location was given to my chapter for FREE.

I am a professional healthcare provider and Yes, I did all of this for FREE. I was NOT paid for the hours I spent consulting and event planning. Most people get well over $5000 for this kind of job. I have the State Medical Director presenting, for free. I have one the state's best Breast Cancer Surgeons, presenting for FREE. I have another hospital's STD director presenting HIV/AIDS for FREE...

Kids feel these kinds of things should be given to them without any work.

For me to finagle all this, yes, I had to be a project whore. I had to attend bullisht-azzed meetings until the middle of night, spend several night away from my husband, get up EARLY in the morning to slang stuff.

That is the "name of the game".

And see, my husband thinks it is ALL about one's brain or intelligence... Yes, intelligence only allows to KEEP your job. But getting in there and meeting folks--NETWORKING--that is where you need to be...

Unsure about where to start?

COMMUNITY SERVICE in your area of interest... Non-profits always need help, that's a guarentee. In fact, in some med school, it is a requirement for admission...

I totally agree. It takes ALOT of work, hard work, and I hope to one day be able to accomplish just as much as you have. I've just started but have a lot on my list to make happen. I know that is where I am going to build my networking as well.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by risingstar

I totally agree. It takes ALOT of work, hard work, and I hope to one day be able to accomplish just as much as you have. I've just started but have a lot on my list to make happen. I know that is where I am going to build my networking as well.

Wait, aren't you still in college? Your only worry should be about going to class, getting excellent grades and getting your degree...

Then you can think about other things in your life.

If you don't have grades and units to get your degree, then how can you even spend the brain energy required to work on something outside of that?

You can volunteer with your church an everything, because you need a spiritual barometer to keep yourself sane.

But God granted you the opportunity to be in college and He expects to use THIS chance wisely. Otherwise, you have gone Prodigal.

[NiaX]

Originally Posted by black_princess

Though I don't have any children as of yet, I can't help but wonder, what does that mean for mothers and children who are not in these other organizations (where you say membership laps over), are not power players or big movers & shakers, or have the pleasure of knowing members? Instead, they are "regular people" who are successfully employed and do good work in their community. Does this mean that their kids are left out because of lack of connections although they may be good contributors to the organization? *Just thinking out loud*

I understand. Basically, it is one group's opinion if they are "good" enough to mesh well with them. A bit of a stretch but still in the ball park about this type of atmosphere is described in the book "Our Kind of People".

Like I said... the folks in my chapter were influential, not necessarily all rich... cause if that was the case my folks and my aunt and uncle would NOT have to worry about bills... and that is SUCH a lie. We work hard for ours, and the members in my chapter (can't speak on the demographics of the other chapter in the city) were hard workers in their lives. They are pillars in the community. No silver platters here!

[NiaX]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

My dad, your fraternity brother is in the Boule... Whereas, IMO, your Fraternity (like my Sorority for me), can give you the hardwork and impetus to "BE" that difference, the Boule (and maybe the Links for me) is the networking or connection driver to see that enacted.

Some of father's business deals happened because of members of the Boule assisted him...

Not everyone needs all these things. But to be in a "high stakes game" you will have to ante up. This game is "high stakes" as much as they make you pay to be in the Boule...

That is some truth! My dad has been in the Boule since I was 6.... and that is where the other part of the movers and shakers reside in my town.

I agree with your thought about the "game", AKAMonet... so true!

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by NiaX

That is some truth! My dad has been in the Boule since I was 6.... and that is where the other part of the movers and shakers reside in my town.

I agree with your thought about the "game", AKAMonet... so true!

You know it is so funny, but the folks that "poo-poohed" the Boule, always come craning around for money when they need some...

I mean, I might have to sell my "Trolls Be Gone, apply directly to Head" spray to the Boule folks...

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

My dad, your fraternity brother is in the Boule... Whereas, IMO, your Fraternity (like my Sorority for me), can give you the hardwork and impetus to "BE" that difference, the Boule (and maybe the Links for me) is the networking or connection driver to see that enacted.

Some of father's business deals happened because of members of the Boule assisted him...

Not everyone needs all these things. But to be in a "high stakes game" you will have to ante up. This game is "high stakes" as much as they make you pay to be in the Boule...

I can agree with that. I haven't seen the benefit of such orgs for people who identify with careers in the arts, like me.

[SummerChild]

Come on ya'll PLEEEEEASE stop with all of this hard work crap.
Everybody on this board knows that it only takes being considered to be in the upper crust and having a connection to get into J&J, the Links, etc. I know from personal experience (not with J&J but with the Links). I had to exhibit absolutely NO hard work to have a Link who was the mother of a guy that I was dating (and who wanted me to get married to her son) ask me if I wanted to join her Links chapter. We decided that it would not have made sense b/c I was moving to another state for lawschool (I was an engineer at the time). No hard work there...just connections.

We all know that these organizations are all about ELITISM. The woman that I referred to above told me, for example, that when her children were in J&J, the chapter did not take single mothers (no matter how HARD they worked) and did not take families that had a blue collar father (no matter how HARD he worked to support his family). If you're not considered to be one of the elite and upper crust, sorry for ya. That seems to be how these orgs roll.

Not to say anything bad about them but just to keep it REAL cause ya'll are driving me crazy with all this hard work crap.

Now my personal opinion is that you can expose your kids to other positive AA kids and role models w/out putting them into an elitist org wherein they will never interact with other AA kids that are more typical to the economic levels of most AA kids. Not saying anything is wrong with J&J but it is not a NECESSITY to have well exposed kids. Similarly, the Links is not a necessity. It's a whole bunch of money and if you're already in the most prestigious sisterhood on the globe, what time will you have for the Links? Unless you're just going to be a member in name only or you just like spending all of your time in meetings away from your man and/or kids. If you just like GIVING AWAY YOUR MONEY then give it to me.

SC

Originally Posted by risingstar

I totally agree. It takes ALOT of work, hard
work, and I hope to one day be able to accomplish just as much as you have. I've just started but have a lot on my list to make happen. I know that is where I am going to build my networking as well.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

This is gonna sound silly probably...... but are Jack and Jill daughters given some sort of legacy consideration? How about wives of Jack and Jill sons?

I think it depends on the chapter! Although I was a Jack and Jill kid in the Lou, I was denied admittance into The Minneapolis chapter, because I was a single Mom! And the national president of J&J had been my nursery school teacher and a good friend of my Mom's. They were livid, but I basically told them if that is how this chapter thinks, I don't want to be in it anyway and have my child face any ridicule!

Now my child is a MBA and senior marketing manager for a large consumer products company and some of those kids are.... let's just say their modicum of success is rather lower. Not to mention the number of mothers who are now divorced. - LOL

ETA: Summerchild I posted this before I read your post. Amen!

[ladygreek]

The invitation process:

The kids are divided into age groups. Each chapter sets a limit for the number of kids in a group. When a vacancy occurs, i.e. the child moves to the next group, or the family moves, then mothers are nominated that have a child in that age group. If the mother who is accepted has other children then they are also accepted in the other age groups, vacancy or not. Sorta like add-ons.

I was an add-on, because my mother was invited because of my younger sister. So I had to fit in with a group that had been together for many years. If any of you are from the Lou, suffice it to say that Michael Roberts was in my group, or rather I was in his. His younger brother was in my sister's group.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

Come on ya'll PLEEEEEASE stop with all of this hard work crap.
Everybody on this board knows that it only takes being considered to be in the upper crust and having a connection to get into J&J, the Links, etc. I know from personal experience (not with J&J but with the Links). I had to exhibit absolutely NO hard work to have a Link who was the mother of a guy that I was dating (and who wanted me to get married to her son) ask me if I wanted to join her Links chapter. We decided that it would not have made sense b/c I was moving to another state for lawschool (I was an engineer at the time). No hard work there...just connections.

We all know that these organizations are all about ELITISM. The woman that I referred to above told me, for example, that when her children were in J&J, the chapter did not take single mothers (no matter how HARD they worked) and did not take families that had a blue collar father (no matter how HARD he worked to support his family). If you're not considered to be one of the elite and upper crust, sorry for ya. That seems to be how these orgs roll.

Not to say anything bad about them but just to keep it REAL cause ya'll are driving me crazy with all this hard work crap.

Now my personal opinion is that you can expose your kids to other positive AA kids and role models w/out putting them into an elitist org wherein they will never interact with other AA kids that are more typical to the economic levels of most AA kids. Not saying anything is wrong with J&J but it is not a NECESSITY to have well exposed kids. Similarly, the Links is not a necessity. It's a whole bunch of money and if you're already in the most prestigious sisterhood on the globe, what time will you have for the Links? Unless you're just going to be a member in name only or you just like spending all of your time in meetings away from your man and/or kids. If you just like GIVING AWAY YOUR MONEY then give it to me.

SC

I have to say a 'Ditto, amen' to this also. When my sister and I were little, my mom's sorority sister asked my mom if she wanted to get us into J&J. My mom considered it and asked what was required. My mom's sorority sister told my mom that she needed to submit her and my dad's income tax statement from the previous year. My mom said no thanks.


A lot of the activites that are done in J&J we did as a family. I think my sister and I got more out of that than we probably would have had we done those things through J&J. Bottom line, I'm sure that it is great to be in J&J, but it is not the end of the world if your kids are not in it.

Oh, I know some of those J&J kids, and they did not turn out any better or worse than we did (my sister and I).

[AKA_Monet]

I interpreted Black_princess' comments as one who was not born with a "silver spoon" could break into the some of these groups, not if one was fortunate to be pass the "paper bag test".

Yes, these groups are about elitism. It is all about who you know. It is all about who you married or simply how far you can passe blanc.

I was born into it. Yes, I am saditiy and what of it? But the Links blackballed my mother because they felt she did not contribute anything to the community, albeit my folks had just moved to SoCal and my father was establishing himself and his business. This ~30 years ago. And because we lived in a "new construction" area in 1975 and because my grandfather was very high up the elitist change it still did not remove the fact that the Links straightjacketed my mother...

Then she proved to be somebody, about something and make somethangs happen and they have since asked her to join dozens of time. She plainly say absolutely not.

Moreover, I HATED JNJ in my city. I can count on one hand how many in JNJ's in my teen group succeeded in life--meaning becoming taxpayers and NOT in jail... Because several of them had out-of-wedlock children, in jail, addicted to drugs.

On the West Coast, we are lucky to even discuss things like never have gone to prison, much less folks think about college. We all have to be mindful of that.

[black_princess]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I interpreted Black_princess' comments as one who was not born with a "silver spoon" could break into the some of these groups, not if one was fortunate to be pass the "paper bag test".

Yes, these groups are about elitism. It is all about who you know. It is all about who you married or simply how far you can passe blanc.

I was born into it. Yes, I am saditiy and what of it? But the Links blackballed my mother because they felt she did not contribute anything to the community, albeit my folks had just moved to SoCal and my father was establishing himself and his business. This ~30 years ago. And because we lived in a "new construction" area in 1975 and because my grandfather was very high up the elitist change it still did not remove the fact that the Links straightjacketed my mother...

Then she proved to be somebody, about something and make somethangs happen and they have since asked her to join dozens of time. She plainly say absolutely not.

Moreover, I HATED JNJ in my city. I can count on one hand how many in JNJ's in my teen group succeeded in life--meaning becoming taxpayers and NOT in jail... Because several of them had out-of-wedlock children, in jail, addicted to drugs.

On the West Coast, we are lucky to even discuss things like never have gone to prison, much less folks think about college. We all have to be mindful of that.

AKA_MONET, you did interpret my question right . . .I was just wondering what the chances are of a young person, mother, ect making it into these orgs. without a prior history. Also, I have to say I love everyones honesty . The fact that you all are able to say "yes I was able to participate" while also suggesting that not making it is not the be-all-and end-all was also refreshing. When I first proposed this question, I honestly was not sure what the reaction would be. Thankfully, I was able to learn a few things and gain some more insight. Thanks yall

PS: I love the comment "Yes, I am saditiy and what of it?" When I read that, I immediatly thought of myself and the bourgeois adjectives that my friends sometimes use to describe me