We didn't hang that flag, say fraternity/Greenville, NC

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Scandia

I would understand if it had been a Nazi flag- and that's what I honestly thought upon first reading it.

But a Confederate flag? It stands for the heritage of the South. It is not automatically stating "down with (insert group here)".

Derision and epithets are a sign of hatred. A Confederate flag is not.

For many African-Americans, the Confederate flag is just as offensive as a Nazi flag would be to the Jews. I am sure that there are still some Germans who feel that the Nazi flag also represents part of their heritage, so using your argument, they (current Nazi-Germans) can also feel justified in displaying it.

While I do agree that the Confederate flag does / can represent the heritage of the South, part of that heritage was based on slave labor. Slave labor of my ancestors. So no, you won't see me running around flying the Confederate flag. I also view the Confederate flag as a sign of hatred because it is usually carried by the KKK.

And, this being the US, I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it, because one day, I may want to say something too.....

[shinerbock]

^Good call.

On a side note, another flag usually carried by the KKK looks like this

[PKPILZ003]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Or perhaps they started flying it out of rebellion, as I said before. People get sick of having black pride shoved down their throats. Every town in the United States doesnt need an MLK blvd. I get a little angry when somebody, as mentioned above, like Maynard Jackson gets his name put on the worlds busiest airport. The flags of the confederacy have become both a rallying point for southern pride and a flag to use in protest. I heard somebody mention a while back about how the NCAA is considering expanding a ban on championship sports in SC, because the flag makes black people uncomfortable. To be honest, walking through underground Atlanta and having black power stuff everywhere doesnt make me comfortable, but I have to live with it. Having to drive through an urban public housing district known for violence doenst make me feel very welcome either, but I'm not trying to get the government to burn them down. Those flags are part of our history. They arent put up for black people, they're put up for us. Much of black culture isnt for whites either.

Also, to the PKP person, absolutely God bless this country. I hope God also continues to bless the south and the southern way of life. Thankfully this is part of the country that still encourages kindness, responsibility, family, and faith in God.

Most Southern states did start flying the battle flag or adding it to their state flag out of rebellion in the late 1950s and early 1960s to oppose desegregation - all the reason to stop trying to use the excuse of heritage!

I agree that every town in the US doesn't need a MLK boulevard - so, which ones do? Who decides? Is it just where he's lived, or where he marched? IS Dr. King only supposed to be a hero to black people or Americans of every color, creed and religion?

I agree that Mayor Jackson's name doesn't need to be on the airport when he wasn't even the best black mayor in the history of Atlanta.

The NCAA told SC that they might not come to the state for Championship events due to the battle flag because of the fact that the only reason it flew and had flown since the 1960s is to call for a return to segregation.

But, "black pride" isn't shoved down anyones throat any more that "white pride" has and had been shoved down the throats of this country for the last 200 years while the work and the work product of other groups has been ignored.

[shinerbock]

So the fact that white pride was wrongfully shoved down people's throat is a good reason for us to do it now with black culture?

Also, simply because state's didnt bring back the flag until the 50s and 60s doesnt mean it wasnt flown. Lets be honest, if you had lost a war, gone through the difficult and terrible times of reconstruction, it would probably be a while before anyone wanted those flags flown again. The civil rights movement started, and the flags went up again. I think that instance was like the civil war...was some of it racist? Absolutely. Was some of it also a protest for states rights? Yes.

[PKPILZ003]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

^Good call.

On a side note, another flag usually carried by the KKK looks like this

that's why i left the Klan out of this - they are not just Southern - seeing that the biggest Klan base for most of the 20th Century was in Indiana - and they are just idiots, they hate everyone unless you are pure white protestant and can prove "no mongrel blood"

shiner, regardless of what anyone says, you're OK - a little crazy sometime, but you when you put your thoughts in clear concise points you tend to make sense.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Or perhaps they started flying it out of rebellion, as I said before. People get sick of having black pride shoved down their throats. Every town in the United States doesnt need an MLK blvd. I get a little angry when somebody, as mentioned above, like Maynard Jackson gets his name put on the worlds busiest airport. The flags of the confederacy have become both a rallying point for southern pride and a flag to use in protest. I heard somebody mention a while back about how the NCAA is considering expanding a ban on championship sports in SC, because the flag makes black people uncomfortable. To be honest, walking through underground Atlanta and having black power stuff everywhere doesnt make me comfortable, but I have to live with it. Having to drive through an urban public housing district known for violence doenst make me feel very welcome either, but I'm not trying to get the government to burn them down. Those flags are part of our history. They arent put up for black people, they're put up for us. Much of black culture isnt for whites either.

Also, to the PKP person, absolutely God bless this country. I hope God also continues to bless the south and the southern way of life. Thankfully this is part of the country that still encourages kindness, responsibility, family, and faith in God.

What do you mean when you say "black pride shoved down your throat" everywhere? Serious question. I mean, the last time I check MLK was not just a "black" leader but a leader of human rights for everyone that was oppressed as well. And saying that because lots of cities with a street names after MLK is an example of this is like saying white power is shoved down the throats of blacks because every city has streets named after US presidents that owned slaves. Ri-di-cu-lous on all points.

Southern pride is not mutually exclusive to just whites and it bugs me to know when people try to pass it off like that (or maybe just in the mind of those that long for days of the pre-civil rights era which gives southerns a bad name). Kindness, responsibility, family, and faith in God isn't inherent in a "white" south, but the south period.

[shinerbock]

I appreciate that. While I truly hate forced diversity and a lot of popular black culture, I also hate white trash. I have some pretty serious issues with much of what the black community's leadership does, and nothing ruins my often very legitimate arguments like some uneducated redneck spouting hateful drivel.

[PKPILZ003]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

So the fact that white pride was wrongfully shoved down people's throat is a good reason for us to do it now with black culture?

Also, simply because state's didnt bring back the flag until the 50s and 60s doesnt mean it wasnt flown. Lets be honest, if you had lost a war, gone through the difficult and terrible times of reconstruction, it would probably be a while before anyone wanted those flags flown again. The civil rights movement started, and the flags went up again. I think that instance was like the civil war...was some of it racist? Absolutely. Was some of it also a protest for states rights? Yes.

you're absolutely right that the battle flag was probably flown by individuals for the last 200 years - how the losers get to keep flying their flag is beyond me.
As for the states rights issue, the rights they were upset about violated the Constitution - what are we, are we Americans or are we illinoisians or Virginiains or Carolinians - the rights of the Union should be held first when it comes to the rights of man.

[PKPILZ003]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I appreciate that. While I truly hate forced diversity and a lot of popular black culture, I also hate white trash. I have some pretty serious issues with much of what the black community's leadership does, and nothing ruins my often very legitimate arguments like some uneducated redneck spouting hateful drivel.

i really don't think that forced diversity is always the way to go - but i will say that we probably could learn a lot from each other if we got past the hate.

[shinerbock]

I'm sorry, but every town I've ever been in had an MLK street. Not every one had a Washington or a Jefferson street or high school. That being said, MLK wasnt really what I was saying regarding shoving black culture down our throats. Living in Atlanta, I'll go back to the Maynard Jackson thing. A LOT of people were extremely pissed off about that. I have no problem with an MLK blvd (although most i've been on were kinda scary). Another issue I remember people getting upset about was Rosa Parks lying in state. There are plenty of things, black history month, celebrations of "diversity," etc...that just get annoying for white people. Like blacks, we get really tired of having everything made into a racial issue.

[shinerbock]

PK, the Constitution never said anything about integrating your restaurant, ala, lester maddox.

[jessikay1922]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

Kindness, responsibility, family, and faith in God isn't inherent in a "white" south, but the south period.

Which is why, although I would never live in Mississippi again, I proudly claim it as my home.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by jessikay1922

Which is why, although I would never live in Mississippi again, I proudly claim it as my home.

What is your point? I'm not denying black Americans had a significant role in southern history, but obviously white southern culture did as well. The confederacy is a part of that.

[jessikay1922]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

What is your point? I'm not denying black Americans had a significant role in southern history, but obviously white southern culture did as well. The confederacy is a part of that.

You know what shinerbock-- sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes people are not attacking you. In fact, I often make it a point NOT to respond to you because I realize that it would be an exercise of futility on my part. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I do. I have no desire to bicker on a message board.

That being said, I was JUST agreeing with the point that Honeykiss made. I claim Mississippi as my home, although I now live in D.C., because I am proud of the Southern values that I received there... like generousity and kindness.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I'm sorry, but every town I've ever been in had an MLK street. Not every one had a Washington or a Jefferson street or high school. That being said, MLK wasnt really what I was saying regarding shoving black culture down our throats. Living in Atlanta, I'll go back to the Maynard Jackson thing. A LOT of people were extremely pissed off about that. I have no problem with an MLK blvd (although most i've been on were kinda scary). Another issue I remember people getting upset about was Rosa Parks lying in state. There are plenty of things, black history month, celebrations of "diversity," etc...that just get annoying for white people. Like blacks, we get really tired of having everything made into a racial issue.

Sorry but I really think its people like yourself that makes things into a racial issue. So far in this thread, you have been the only one to bring up personal experiences of what you deem to be "racial issues" of how whites have it so bad. I'm sorry but MLK and other celebrations just don't wash with me and to really use them as examples is sad case of grasping at straws.

I mean, goodness sake, I currently live in Kansas where there is NOTHING remotely close to the word "diverse" here but common sense tells me that it isn't "the white man" shoving his culture down my throat. I could sit here and whine about how Ocktoberfest and Columbus Day parades and claim that they are annoying examples of "white pride" (using your logic) but common sense tells me that isn't the case.

Your real problem seems to be where you live. Hey, if you're looking for something that is more suitable for your taste, come to Kansas.