Way to go Congress.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Also, it was the Democrats who voted down the wage hike, because it was attached to an estate tax reduction.

Attached by whom? End of discussion. (and I am neither DFL nor Repub.)

[shinerbock]

It was attached by the Republicans obviously. If they are gonna give something up, why should they not get something in return?

Regarding the comments on 9/11, I don't know where to begin. Everything you say is pretty much a one time leftist talking point which has since been disproven. As I've said before, go read Bush at War, by Bob Woodward. It is an account of the lead up to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Woodward is an unequaled journalist and not a republican. What exactly do you think Bush would have done if he knew when and where the attacks would be? They had heard the same threats from Bin Laden for years, yet you expect Bush to be in the oval, instead of reading to kids, as if it will help the situation? We obviously had our guard down more than we knew, but that has very little to do with Bush. Clinton's administration had threats from Bin Laden, yet made no motion to better secure the country. This is a good example of how Democrats attempt to divide the country. Rather than blaming the terrorist act on the people who did it, being Al Qaeda, you and other are attempting to blame the Bush administration. Not only are you simply and utterly wrong, it is an extremely stupid thing to say. The only people we could possibly place responsibilty on is the intelligence community, but even then it is not a fair accusation. We are fighting an entirely different war, one that unfortunately has to be based on intelligence. This isn't the cold war where we can teach somebody russian and send them to an embassy. We're fighting an enemy that hides in caves in remote deserts, and they are by no means easy to infiltrate. If you'd like to blame this on Bush, go ahead, but he's done far more to secure this country than Clinton did, and far more than Kerry or Gore would have done. Lets not forget that DEMOCRATS voted for the war in Iraq. Now, you can proclaim they were lied to, but that is an idiotic claim. You're telling me senators only go on what the president tells them? Many democratic senators saw the same intelligence Bush saw, and yet voted for the war. I don't buy that they were misled by somebody who they hated to begin with, and have never trusted.

[AXEAM]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

It was attached by the Republicans obviously. If they are gonna give something up, why should they not get something in return?

Regarding the comments on 9/11, I don't know where to begin. Everything you say is pretty much a one time leftist talking point which has since been disproven. As I've said before, go read Bush at War, by Bob Woodward. It is an account of the lead up to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Woodward is an unequaled journalist and not a republican. What exactly do you think Bush would have done if he knew when and where the attacks would be? They had heard the same threats from Bin Laden for years, yet you expect Bush to be in the oval, instead of reading to kids, as if it will help the situation? We obviously had our guard down more than we knew, but that has very little to do with Bush. Clinton's administration had threats from Bin Laden, yet made no motion to better secure the country. This is a good example of how Democrats attempt to divide the country. Rather than blaming the terrorist act on the people who did it, being Al Qaeda, you and other are attempting to blame the Bush administration. Not only are you simply and utterly wrong, it is an extremely stupid thing to say. The only people we could possibly place responsibilty on is the intelligence community, but even then it is not a fair accusation. We are fighting an entirely different war, one that unfortunately has to be based on intelligence. This isn't the cold war where we can teach somebody russian and send them to an embassy. We're fighting an enemy that hides in caves in remote deserts, and they are by no means easy to infiltrate. If you'd like to blame this on Bush, go ahead, but he's done far more to secure this country than Clinton did, and far more than Kerry or Gore would have done. Lets not forget that DEMOCRATS voted for the war in Iraq. Now, you can proclaim they were lied to, but that is an idiotic claim. You're telling me senators only go on what the president tells them? Many democratic senators saw the same intelligence Bush saw, and yet voted for the war. I don't buy that they were misled by somebody who they hated to begin with, and have never trusted.

All of your posts are blinded by your brain washed GOP ideology and hatred for Democrats I call it as I see it, you say Bush has done more to secure the country then Clinton ...yet the twin towers and New Orleans are destroyed not to mention the wreck that is Iraq. You don't think that it's funny that all this happened under Bush's watch, Bush is an incompotent failure maybe you ought to read Worse then WaterGate by John W. Dean former counsel to president Nixon.

[djjukebox]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

the economy has been booming

What part of America do you live in?

With the War on the wrong country, the USA is in extreme debt !!!!

[shinerbock]

AxEm, maybe you've noticed the incredible building up of homeland security since 9/11? Last time I checked, Bush doesnt have a weather machine, so blaming him for Katrina just displays who incredibly out there you are. It is very difficult to debate someone who defies logic and reason.

As for the economy, flip on CNBC sometime. The stock market has risen, although may be stalling now, we'll see...and job creation has been steady for months.

[AXEAM]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

AxEm, maybe you've noticed the incredible building up of homeland security since 9/11? Last time I checked, Bush doesnt have a weather machine, so blaming him for Katrina just displays who incredibly out there you are. It is very difficult to debate someone who defies logic and reason.

As for the economy, flip on CNBC sometime. The stock market has risen, although may be stalling now, we'll see...and job creation has been steady for months.

What incredible build up you mean still having guys making $6 bucks an hour checking passagers of airplanes (and getting rid of the feds making 30 + a year), or the fact that 80% or more of cargo arriving by ship are not checked. Maybe you're speaking of the fact that the border w/ Canada is open like Walmart 24/7 or the fact that Bin laden is still making threats and making videos like a pop star...but we have caught the number three man for Al Qaeda about a million times so I quess that's a plus.

[shinerbock]

Oh, so you mean when Clinton had the chance to catch him we should have. Perhaps you're referring to the billions we're spending on Homeland Security, a new department. Maybe you're talking about the foiled terrorist attempts which have resulted because of our intelligence community working in coordination with other international intelligence groups.

[AXEAM]

Bin-Laden attacked America under Clinton's watch? when ? As for the foil terrorist attacks that's like those color coded warnings a bunch of hype that lacks real substance....have you ever notice how vague those foiled attack or shall I say so called attacks were....never any real information. Yes billions were wasted on homeland security I will admit that.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by AXEAM

Bin-Laden attacked America under Clinton's watch? when ? As for the foil terrorist attacks that's like those color coded warnings a bunch of hype that lacks real substance....have you ever notice how vague those foiled attack or shall I say so called attacks were....never any real information. Yes billions were wasted on homeland security I will admit that.

I think there's probably more attempted terrorist attacks then the American Public knows about. Kind of like the Men In Black thing...a person is smart, but people are dumb, panicy animals and so they don't tell us everything that's going on.

[AXEAM]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I think there's probably more attempted terrorist attacks then the American Public knows about. Kind of like the Men In Black thing...a person is smart, but people are dumb, panicy animals and so they don't tell us everything that's going on.

Sorry to be such a killjoy but to scare the hell out of stupid people is what the Bush admin does best so scare tactics are straight up these guys alley remember yellow-green-Orange, Saddam is trying to buy chemicals from Niger so he can build a nuclear bomb (to go along w/ his WMDs) and attack America, Saddam met w/ the terrorist involved w/9-11.....and on..and on...

[Exquisite5]

Back to the minimum wage debate--

I am with the Republicans on this one. I think the estate tax is ridiculous- I think its even more ridiculous that it will phase out for one year and then come back. Why should a person who dies with 2 million and 1 dollars pay more than one who dies with 2 million? Its arbitrary and its nuts.

I think raising the minimum wage hurts the poor more than it helps them. If I opened my business right now and budgeted for a certain amount of employees based on what I could pay them and then the next year, before my business was in the black, the minimum wage was raised I'd have to fire someone or some-many--- how does that help?

Companies (the small ones anyway) can afford to only expend a certain amount of money- so you can make'em $10/hr and they'll hire 5 people or make'em pay $5/hr and they'll hire 10 people- they're still only paying $50/hr.

IMO- raising the minimum wage is pointless because shinerbock is right (I can't believe we agree, lol) the big corps don't pay minimum wage anyway and the smaller businesses are going to be forced to hire less people (therefore there will be LESS jobs) or close alltogether (MORE unemployed).

[AXEAM]

Well that's your opinion and I think you are wrong and your statement that raising the minium wage will hurt the poor is asinine. Besides I would rather pay (5) employees $10.00/hr and know they will perform better then (10) employees who only make $ 5.25/hr.........oftentimes you get exactly what you pay for.

[AXEAM]

I'm glad to see that the newly elected Democratic congress has the balls to get min wage raised....way to go congress.