Does your HQ *really* want to know about hazing?

[jon1856]

shinerbock;
You may wish to call your National before talking on this matter.

Not rare to close a 'big' chapter at all. And a National would rather do before the school does.

While one is fully entitled to have their opinons or perception, without getting into details, your entire comment is just about dead wrong on facts.

bows&toes, you too.

[tunatartare]

A year or two ago a friend of mine told me how a sorority at his school got into a lot of trouble with the school for hazing and that there was a good chance that they were going to lose their charter. While I don't know the exact details of what happened, a friend of mine from a different chapter of the same sorority told me that nothing ended up happening because the national president was from that chapter and didn't want to see her own chapter close. This was something that had been going on for years at that school. Chances are, the president herself could have, at some point been involved in it. If she wasn't, she could've just refused to accept the fact that her chapter would start participating in it, and turned a blind eye to it.

[shinerbock]

Well it may be dead wrong for other fraternities, but I'm speaking from personal experience. Having been in office and dealing with nationals, there were several instances where we handled something poorly or the university spoke to our nationals, in which nationals looked the other way. Of course they wouldnt look the other way if it was a major issue that is impossible to ignore such as publicized hazing or some serious accident...but I've seen other chapters of my fraternity get in trouble from nationals for lesser things than what we've done. That may just be the poor handling of one national GLO, but thats my experience.

[jon1856]

KLPDaisy;
While I do believe what you wrote is the truth, if also strikes me as being very close to those fake chain letters, hoaxes and Urban Legends that we all get in our e-mails. Having followed risk management, I would find it very hard that a GLO President would allow that kind of Risk to continue. For that matter, any company President, which is what GLO Nations have just about become.

The reason why I have an interest is the my home chapter lost its way. After 20 some year, some went very wrong with the Brotherhood within the house. I know that when I was there, we had problems but we still kept the Brotherhood. Well after I graduated, the house went from a house of Brotherhood, a good Chapter to something beyond Animal House. Both National and the school stepped in and National did a full review and interviews with everyone and shut the house down until everyone involved was gone. And now,over 6 years later, rush numbers are not at the level to try to re-start my chapter and the Sigma Nu's are in my house ( sorry guys )

And I know that National has done it to other chapters, both large and small. I know because I stayed involve enough to have conversations with members of National.

Bottom lines: Just because you heard something or part of something, always wise to check it out. And National Risk Management is not going to go away. It will be getting harder and stronger.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well it may be dead wrong for other fraternities, but I'm speaking from personal experience. Having been in office and dealing with nationals, there were several instances where we handled something poorly or the university spoke to our nationals, in which nationals looked the other way. Of course they wouldnt look the other way if it was a major issue that is impossible to ignore such as publicized hazing or some serious accident...but I've seen other chapters of my fraternity get in trouble from nationals for lesser things than what we've done. That may just be the poor handling of one national GLO, but thats my experience.

Shinerbock:We can agree on your last comment.

[shinerbock]

Well seeing as my chapter was far and away better run than our national organization, it didn't bother me. We needed them for a single thing...insurance.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well seeing as my chapter was far and away better run than our national organization, it didn't bother me. We needed them for a single thing...insurance.

Sometimes Companies just do not work well.
And sometimes they get overhauled and sometimes they do not.

My Chapter fell down and is now out because they failed. Companies fail for same reasons.

I am sorry to hear the your GLO 'Company' seems to be in the need for an overhaul. I know that mine went though one-and it seemed to have helped.

[shinerbock]

Well they need an overhaul in my opinion. I'm sure they serve other chapters well, but we were moving in seperate directions. We needed no financial or organizational help, nor did we appreciate the way they were PC'ing our fraternity educational material. Other chapter very well may have appreciated, it just didn't work for us.

[Tom Earp]

Is over haul maybe to strong a usage?

Remember, The Members are the ones who can rule as The HQ members are there to support and admonish Chapters if there is problems.

Not knowing who Your GLO is, I can understand as We too had problems and have made changes.

hings are turning around on many fronts and hopefully for the better.

Each Chapter at a school refelcts on a whole GLO.

[jon1856]

Most, if not all, GLO have conventions at which changes in officers, rules and policies are made. Ever go to one? Ever try to cause change?
And just what PC related changes are you upset with?
And as Tom Earp points out, without knowing your GLO, hard to be of any greater help with ideas or advise.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by jon1856

And as Tom Earp points out, you are one of the very few who do not display your 'colors'.

Not true. Let's not get on that tack because it's pointless.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well they need an overhaul in my opinion. I'm sure they serve other chapters well, but we were moving in seperate directions. We needed no financial or organizational help, nor did we appreciate the way they were PC'ing our fraternity educational material. Other chapter very well may have appreciated, it just didn't work for us.

Why would you ever want your fraternity to expand and be strong at other schools? Especially when the other chapters aren't like yours? Would you refer to a member of your organization from a different chapter as brother?

Or more specifically, how about a member from one of the newer chapters which fully utilizes the HQ's educational materials to the exclusion of more traditional induction/education practices?

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well they need an overhaul in my opinion. I'm sure they serve other chapters well, but we were moving in seperate directions. We needed no financial or organizational help, nor did we appreciate the way they were PC'ing our fraternity educational material. Other chapter very well may have appreciated, it just didn't work for us.

You have listed several complaints about your (unknown) National Office but fail say just what they are.

You indicate that they are (now) too PC. What does that mean to you? To us?

You indicate that you (and/or your entire chapter) seems to feel and believe that you are better then your National ( and other chapters) in someways that you do not detail.

Again, without any details from you I can only offer advise on what I have seen and directly expienced.

Generally, houses that think they know it all, fall down on their face at some point.

The other option is to get out of you GLO and go local indi. Or find another GLO that you perfer-if that can even be done.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by bows&toes

They definatly look the other way if it's a big prominent chapter at a school with a great greek system such as Alabama, Ole Miss, Texas, etc. This has been proven time and time again. You think DKE will ever pull the Yale chapter for hazing? Don't hold your breath.

If you're some podunk chapter in NJ, they wont think twice of revoking you.

While I would need to dig through some records for details, I do know that SAE has put the hurt onto "big"/"prominent" chapters when they have crossed the line. I know MIT was shut down several year ago.

And it most likly happens every where, you and I just do not know about it.

A very down and dirty search found the history of GLO at San Diego State University:
http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/cfsl/document...eekHistory.DOC

And another down and dirty search using Chapter hazing closing came up with a long list to review, including this one about a 91 year old Phi Delt chapter house:
http://www.dailyutahchronicle.com/me...hchronicle.com

Or a 107 year old Fiji chapter:
http://columbiamissourian.com/news/story.php?ID=19494

And to cover both sides, The University of Michigan chapter of the Alpha Epsilon Phi
http://www.bgnews.com/media/storage/...www.bgnews.com

Please feel free to do you own search , but please do it before you make a statement that closings do not ever happen to big, proud chapters...........

[Tom Earp]

Harsh, but maybe very true.

Only The Members can change things and if they dont, then, whoses fault is that?

We all have General Assemblys that are attended by Members.

HQs set the tone, but if there are enough people who are not happy, it can be changed.

Dont just complain, do something about the problem.