Cosby Scolds Idle Churchgoers

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by Rudey
Also most of what he says has been said by others like Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, and Spike Lee.

-Rudey [/B]

Again Rudy, I do not knock what his goal is I just think his strategy is weak and will have no effect on the black community. Phalanthropy is great when you give money and speeches and have earned your way, however, I have never seen Bill in a protest or march on in the hood speaking directly to drug dealers or doing what he says black churches need to be doing and the women of families out to be doing. I just think you will have a better result in our community if you don't judge first. Until he has walked a mile in some of these people shoes (meaning sympathize or empathize with folks who weren't given honorary degrees, there is no way he can begin to make grave change.) Folks like Jesse and Al have been to the hood and walked in protest with folks who are directly affected by poverty and the audience that Bill is speaking about.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Gods Ivy
Again Rudy, I do not knock what his goal is I just think his strategy is weak and will have no effect on the black community. Phalanthropy is great when you give money and speeches and have earned your way, however, I have never seen Bill in a protest or march on in the hood speaking directly to drug dealers or doing what he says black churches need to be doing and the women of families out to be doing. I just think you will have a better result in our community if you don't judge first. Until he has walked a mile in some of these people shoes (meaning sympathize or empathize with folks who weren't given honorary degrees, there is no way he can begin to make grave change.) Folks like Jesse and Al have been to the hood and walked in protest with folks who are directly affected by poverty and the audience that Bill is speaking about.

I've heard he doesn't have just honorary degrees but a real PhD (Edited to add: I found out that he got his phd at a teaching school so even though it wasn't honorary, it's not exactly something he busted his butt to get). He grew up in Philly and I don't know if that's the hood or not but he also dropped out of high school and had to get a GED and then scholarships to go to college. I'm not gonna lie, I don't know enough about his life and what protests he's done but I did find this:

* During the 1970s, Cosby was on the "enemies list" of President Richard Nixon.

* He was the first bigtime entertainer to cancel an appearance in Cincinnati after a boycott was called in response to the 2001 Cincinnati Riots. His support of this cause encouraged other stars to follow.

-Rudey
--I guess I'm just saying that his words have been twisted in the media and people might feel differently if they actually read his speeches instead.

[SummerChild]

Honeykiss, most churches only help *members*.
SC

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
Bill Cosby has done a his fair share for the black community so I think he is qualified to comment on its state. Who do you think should be commenting on it? Only people that live in a poor urban area? Or those that do not make over a certain median income?

Sorry, but I think if you are a person that is trying to better our community and society in general you can comment on it.

And seriously, at what point will we stop waiting on a person to get things started? I think the black church should be at the heart of fixing a lot of the ails of our community instead of waiting for someone else to do it. We should be the one's running after school programs (to keep kids productive and off the street), mini-health clinics in our church basements, drug/alcohol abuse support groups, etc. We need to be the ones to show the love of Christ in action everday by helping those around us.

[SummerChild]

Well, last time I checked, Mr. Cosby and his wife had given millions to Spelman and other HBCUs. I don't know whether he also goes up and down the streets of Philly, which is where I think he lives, but I think that millions qualifies as a hint of advocacy.

Besides, it's easy to say, well if that person isn't doing x, then that person shouldn't speak about x. That is a copout for many. The point is that YOU (not speaking to you personally) should do x. How is the fact that YOU should do x any less true just b/c someone else may say it and not do it (although I believe that he does). That "does he do x" discussion results in sidestepping the issue at hand and nothing and nobody benefits.

IMO, you have to take Mr. Cosby's speeches for what they are worth. Some will be turned off b/c he didn't tiptoe through the tulips and gently hold our hands while admonishing us to watch our kids and some will see the frankness as a last ditch effort after tiptoeing has been tried and may appear to not have worked. At the end of the day, he issues a challenge to each of us. What will we each do?



SC

Originally posted by f8nacn


As Janet Jackson would say with a twist - What has He done for the community lately?

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by TonyB06
I think the church, and others community institutions, ARE working to make things better on small and large scales, depending on their size/resources. The church's PRIMARY mission, IMO, is showing people the realization of Jesus Christ as Savior, and secondarily showing people how to live more vibrant and impactful lives while we await Christ's return. My church has a community center which houses a K-3 school, an elder day care, and periodically has housed a small business incubator. On top of traditional support ministries for congregants and frankly anybody who comes in the door. That doesn't make us special; as a lot of churches do similar things, which is what we should be doing.

Tony, does your church help people who are not members?
SC

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by SummerChild
Tony, does your church help people who are not members?
SC

My church does. We have outreach houses and minister to gangs in the community. And give scholarships to non-members.

[Marie]

Originally posted by SummerChild
Honeykiss, most churches only help *members*.
SC

Well, I've seen evidence that my church does quite a bit of work in the community in which it is located, and I feel confident that a good number of the church members do not live in this community. Between conducting toy and clothing drives, handing out food baskets, supporting the local elementary school, encouraging the development and growth of new businesses in the community, fighting for mixed-income housing and baptizing new Christians, I think they are doing pretty well by the non-members. I'm not saying that this or any other church is perfect or doesn't have its members best interests at heart, but I also don't think that these efforts are unique or isolated to this church.

[Gods Ivy]

Originally posted by Marie
Well, I've seen evidence that my church does quite a bit of work in the community in which it is located, and I feel confident that a good number of the church members do not live in this community. Between conducting toy and clothing drives, handing out food baskets, supporting the local elementary school, encouraging the development and growth of new businesses in the community, fighting for mixed-income housing and baptizing new Christians, I think they are doing pretty well by the non-members. I'm not saying that this or any other church is perfect or doesn't have its members best interests at heart, but I also don't think that these efforts are unique or isolated to this church.

I agree, there are many churches that give to non-members and encourage members to give to non members. I think until we have assessed all churches in the US we can not honestly make a blanket statement either way however, there are churches that roll up their sleeves and provide for the community.

[Honeykiss1974]

Most if not the majority of churches do have outreaches for non-members. I just believe in doing what you can where you at. The needs of a community are different and I think there is enough "need" out there for churches to find something to get involved in.

As stated earlier, it doesn't have to be on a grand scale - if you notice the kids in your neighborhood or church are lacking in shows and clothes, even something as small as a clothing drive can make a difference. Small steps do eventually add up.


and good points Rudey.

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by SummerChild
Tony, does your church help people who are not members?
SC

very much so, SC. I'm fairly certain that most all the programs I mentioned earlier have a good representation of non members.

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by Rudey
Also most of what he says has been said by others like Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, and Spike Lee.

So why the backlash? Probably because of the media's selective coverage of what he says - only showing the bad things. They make it seems as if he put all the blame on blacks when he didn't. They also took out the praise he gave to many black organizations and churches. Regarding Christians stopping drug dealers, it was in the context of saying that Black Muslims have done a good job of doing that on street corners and also that blacks have to do it because cops (society) aren't helping them in their neighborhoods. If anyone got bashed in that speech it was the cops.

You can find the text to all his speeches online without any media twists on them.

-Rudey

And Jackson, West, Lee and others have all taken criticism from segments of the Black community so why shouldn't Cosby? Particularly when he's taken overly broad swipes, in the opinion of many, at whole segments of people he purports to help.

My comment isn't drawn from the "media's selective coverage." It's drawn from seeing on-the-ground efforts by orgs in the communities trying to effect change -- Urban League, NAACP (in some places), churches, frats/sororities, et. al. As I said earlier, Cosby has a right to comment, but the magnitude of the problem has long been known in the minority community, and was sufficiently well-articulated long before Cos's latest "tour." So what has really been added except media coverage and additional bombast?

That being the case, let's get to the next level. If that's another donation from Cosby, fine. If not, he's already kicked in $20 million so he should feel free to relax, chase Camille around the crib and just chill. But a lot of people find his present conversation -- backed up, in so far as I've been able to determine by not much in the way of a substantive measurable alternative -- a bit tiresome.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by TonyB06
And Jackson, West, Lee and others have all taken criticism from segments of the Black community so why shouldn't Cosby? Particularly when he's taken overly broad swipes, in the opinion of many, at whole segments of people he purports to help.

My comment isn't drawn from the "media's selective coverage." It's drawn from seeing on-the-ground efforts by orgs in the communities trying to effect change -- Urban League, NAACP (in some places), churches, frats/sororities, et. al. As I said earlier, Cosby has a right to comment, but the magnitude of the problem has long been known in the minority community, and was sufficiently well-articulated long before Cos's latest "tour." So what has really been added except media coverage and additional bombast?

That being the case, let's get to the next level. If that's another donation from Cosby, fine. If not, he's already kicked in $20 million so he should feel free to relax, chase Camille around the crib and just chill. But a lot of people find his present conversation -- backed up, in so far as I've been able to determine by not much in the way of a substantive measurable alternative -- a bit tiresome.

It seems to me that if he is discussing the achievements of Black muslims in stopping drug dealers, that he is presenting an alternative. And I suppose you'd measure the success of that by the number of drug crimes in that neighborhood. But then again I have no idea if Black muslims really do confront drug dealers or not. Oh well.

-Rudey

[SummerChild]

Hello Tony,
That's a relief. Most of the churches that I have attended (admittedly, mostly the mega churches in different areas) typically say that to take part in various programs, you have to be member. I never thought that was right. I'm glad to hear that my experience is in the minority.

SC

Originally posted by TonyB06
very much so, SC. I'm fairly certain that most all the programs I mentioned earlier have a good representation of non members.

[mccoyred]

Originally posted by Rudey
Bill Cosby served in the military, played sports, got a PhD (I didn't know that one until recently), and then became one of the best known and respected people in entertainment. "Cosby is now a leading educational philanthropist" indicating he gives back to the community. He also created a show about middle class African Americans doing well which is a pretty rare show to ever see on tv. How can he not be a great role model?

Also most of what he says has been said by others like Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, and Spike Lee.

So why the backlash? Probably because of the media's selective coverage of what he says - only showing the bad things. They make it seems as if he put all the blame on blacks when he didn't. They also took out the praise he gave to many black organizations and churches. Regarding Christians stopping drug dealers, it was in the context of saying that Black Muslims have done a good job of doing that on street corners and also that blacks have to do it because cops (society) aren't helping them in their neighborhoods. If anyone got bashed in that speech it was the cops.

You can find the text to all his speeches online without any media twists on them.

-Rudey

Bill Cosby also came from the 'lower socioeconomic classes'. The Fat Albert show (junkyard, North Philly) was REAL. He grew up not too far from my mom and her siblings. Brother Cosby (and others like Dr Ben Carson) HAVE achieved success in spite of their humble beginnings.

The fact that he is the consumate role model, gives MILLIONS to charities and colleges every year and has 'earned his gray hairs' should implore folks to stop, listen and understand what he is trying to say. Instead of getting defensive about his observations of TRUTH, folks need to get to working on the issues.

[DLTA22]

Very well said soror! I could not agree with you more.

I think as an elder in our village, Bill Cosby has not only earned the right to shout the wake up call into the ears of our people from the most affluent to the least advantage. Its 2006 and most people can identify more brand taglines from commercials than naming 5 recent presidents. I am honored that there is still some one out there willing to go on the front lines and not only take the heat for saying what most of us utter behind closed doors but also place the mirrors in front of our faces to show us all how we need to do more work and less complaining.

Just sharing my $19.13 on the matter :- l


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