Update on K A Psi FAMU Hazing Incident

[Nupeology]

What's up Nupes? I know the family (Jones here in Decatur) personally. In fact, the dad is a
nupe from UAB and the moms an AKA from Miles College. The moms called me right
after the son got home for Spring break. Crazy stuff still happening all in the name of Phi Nu Pi. I and Brother Ronald Range Providence Polmarch of Southern Providence meet with the parents and they are talking legal actions against the Frat. I mean the young man will never be able to have 100% of is hearing again. THis is a sad day.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

They were talking about this Saturday on 90.5, the FAMU radio station. A member of the Alpha Xi chapter called and noted that the father of one of the victims is the one pushing the legal action, not the son. He asserted that the father is just out to extort money for the school and the organization by filing suit. He mentioned a claim won by another hazing victim that was awarded over $1M, citing that the father is just trying to get rich.

I was thinking, you all shouldn't have given him any ammunition to get rich from. *shrugs shoulders*

[Nupeology]

That is so true SKEEphistAKAte...You would think that since the guys father was a Nupe he would not sue his organization but I guess when Family is envolved it is different.

[PhrozenGenius]

The whole incident smacks of sheer carelessness. Some of our BGLO chapters are forsaking brotherhood and caring for your fellow man for the sake of "making someone right". The fact that this young man will have health problems for the rest of his life trying to become a member of a strong bond of highly educated men is unsettling at the very least and morbid at its worst. I give undergraduate intake for the Divine 9 about ten years before insurance premiums get entirely too expensive for it to continue. (Insurance, Legal Fees, Settlements, etc.)

It's sad.

P.S.-What's up Nupeology? T-town for 27 more days!

[NUPE4LIFE]

/\ It's sad but I agree as well. The alternative is having graduate chapters completely running the process.

[PhrozenGenius]

If grad chapters completely run the process, there will still be renegade undergrad brothers or maybe some overzealous grad brothers who still wanna beat the hell out of people in the name of tradition.

(Although the tradition, per se, was above ground intake activities that provided a rich legacy and knowledge of greek/GDI interaction. The tradition has become a packaging of pledging's salacious elements and physical aspects, with total disregard for life and limb.)

We're kinda stuck between a rock (no pun intended) and a hard place.

[ZetaStorm]

Originally posted by PhrozenGenius
If grad chapters completely run the process, there will still be renegade undergrad brothers or maybe some overzealous grad brothers who still wanna beat the hell out of people in the name of tradition.

We're kinda stuck between a rock (no pun intended) and a hard place.

I agree....A lot of these issues were brought up when MIP was orginally implemented yet it was kind of pushed under the table.
You're right there aren't any easy answers. It's kind of like shooting in the dark.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by ZetaStorm
I agree....A lot of these issues were brought up when MIP was orginally implemented yet it was kind of pushed under the table.
You're right there aren't any easy answers. It's kind of like shooting in the dark.

Your statement confuses me. MIP came about, because these issues were already present. What MIP did was give the orgs. a better legal realm with which to discipline such behavior. Before that very few orgs had internal written standardized processes, so unless something like a death occured, it was hard to prove a violation of the rules--there were none except very general statements.

Everyone seems to blame the current hazing on MIP. But prior to it there was above ground AND below ground. What I see is reason for the current situation appearing to be worse is the advent of the internet and more stories getting told to more people.

[ZetaStorm]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Your statement confuses me. MIP came about, because these issues were already present. What MIP did was give the orgs. a better legal realm with which to discipline such behavior. Before that very few orgs had internal written standardized processes, so unless something like a death occured, it was hard to prove a violation of the rules--there were none except very general statements.


Everyone seems to blame the current hazing on MIP. But prior to it there was above ground AND below ground. What I see is reason for the current situation appearing to be worse is the advent of the internet and more stories getting told to more people.

Yes some issues were present prior to MIP however all Greeks did not feel that MIP was going to be the answer to the problem. There were plenty of Greek members who loudly voiced their opinion against MIP. It was clearly stated that they did not agree with eliminating pledging and they stated why they felt that way. There were many Greeks who were against people skating into their organizations. But they were ignored and MIP was put into place. It was obvious that there was going to be a problem. This is what I mean by it was pushed under the table. It's like trying to resolve one problem and creating a bigger one.

To me MIP opened a Pandora's Box. Just because MIP was put into place that did not change how these members felt about pledging and intake. To me it has sent pledging/hazing deep underground. This is what makes it more dangerous than it ever was before. Who is regulating what?

For every story that does make the news there are countless others that will never make the news or be reported. I just pray that we find a solution soon before this spirals any further out of control.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by ZetaStorm
Yes some issues were present prior to MIP however all Greeks did not feel that MIP was going to be the answer to the problem. There were plenty of Greek members who loudly voiced their opinion against MIP. It was clearly stated that they did not agree with eliminating pledging and they stated why they felt that way. There were many Greeks who were against people skating into their organizations. But they were ignored and MIP was put into place. It was obvious that there was going to be a problem. This is what I mean by it was pushed under the table. It's like trying to resolve one problem and creating a bigger one.

To me MIP opened a Pandora's Box. Just because MIP was put into place that did not change how these members felt about pledging and intake. To me it has sent pledging/hazing deep underground. This is what makes it more dangerous than it ever was before. Who is regulating what?

For every story that does make the news there are countless others that will never make the news or be reported. I just pray that we find a solution soon before this spirals any further out of control.

Some issue? No all of the issues. They were more severe pre-MIP. And trust the underground was deeper before, because there was no the fear of being caught, since there were no offical rules.

The HBCUs threatened in a formal letter to ban all HPHCs if something wasn't done. MIP was instituted to reach a compromise that would keep us on those campuses. Trust me, I was there.

And you know what? A good pledge period/MIP doesn't need to entail all of the hazing. Look at the number of folx initiated pre-MIP who aren't active with their orgs because of what went down.

MIP wasn't done lightly and without a lot of study. It took a few years for all of the NPHC to come on board. Too many deaths and maimings were happening. So the lawsuits and pending crisis forced us all to adopt our own versions of MIP.

And very honestly I think it is an injustice to anyone who goes through a strictly MIP process to be labeled as "paper.' (not that you said that.) But each previous decade of pledges could say the same thing about subsequent pledges, MIP or not. And that is what makes prospects yield to things they know are not right. Us old heads need to quit glamouizing what we went through, because it wasn't nice. Yet we didn't have the recourse then that prospects have now.

So again, imo, the issue is more of things being communicated more widely, than an upsurge. And what you have now is a reporting of suspensions and expulsions on some national websites of chapters and individuals that should give prospects information for making an iformed choice. Maybe everyone should institute that. Because before MIP there was NO regulation. of such.

Yes, we are still at a cross roads, but MIP is not to blame. Human behavior is. And that is a whole 'nother issue about who we bring into our organiztions.

[marquise1911]

I believe that the MIP needs to be revamped. What the MIP has become is a massive photocopy machine that each of our perspective organizations are using to spew out members who do absolutely nothing for our frats/sororities, but wear t-shirts. Pledging has been push deep underground and is being compressed into short periods of time. Old heads talk about how long they were on line and what they went through. Commonly I speak to "old heads" that I have been through more than and endured in 2/3 or some cases 1/2 the time they did. What would have been done in 12-14 weeks is being done in 6-9 weeks. No wonder people are being hurt. Trust that they are being hurt more frequently now than before, but few cases are reported. There has not been a semester where I have not seen blood leading to one of the frat rooms or heard of someone "falling down the stairs" and having to be rushed to the emergency room. The more we think that this MIP is working, the more you will see that our D9 organizations will be fading and disappearing (although there will still be t-shirts present). I know people who are so afraid to even submit applications because of the nonsense that they heard. When did having skin burned off your back make you more of a brother? This and other happenings are unheard of in the past.

Pledging doesn't need to be eliminated, it needs to be controlled.

[ZetaStorm]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Some issue? No all of the issues. They were more severe pre-MIP. And trust the underground was deeper before, because there was no the fear of being caught, since there were no offical rules.

The HBCUs threatened in a formal letter to ban all HPHCs if something wasn't done. MIP was instituted to reach a compromise that would keep us on those campuses. Trust me, I was there.

And you know what? A good pledge period/MIP doesn't need to entail all of the hazing. Look at the number of folx initiated pre-MIP who aren't active with their orgs because of what went down.

MIP wasn't done lightly and without a lot of study. It took a few years for all of the NPHC to come on board. Too many deaths and maimings were happening. So the lawsuits and pending crisis forced us all to adopt our own versions of MIP.

And very honestly I think it is an injustice to anyone who goes through a strictly MIP process to be labeled as "paper.' (not that you said that.) But each previous decade of pledges could say the same thing about subsequent pledges, MIP or not. And that is what makes prospects yield to things they know are not right. Us old heads need to quit glamouizing what we went through, because it wasn't nice. Yet we didn't have the recourse then that prospects have now.

So again, imo, the issue is more of things being communicated more widely, than an upsurge. And what you have now is a reporting of suspensions and expulsions on some national websites of chapters and individuals that should give prospects information for making an iformed choice. Maybe everyone should institute that. Because before MIP there was NO regulation. of such.

Yes, we are still at a cross roads, but MIP is not to blame. Human behavior is. And that is a whole 'nother issue about who we bring into our organiztions.

To make a long story short, in my opinion this is a ticking time bomb. It’s just like if you have a child and that child keeps trying to tell you that something is wrong and you keep ignoring them & then you’re surprised when the problem escalates to a proportion that you’re not prepared to handle.... I hope we don’t wait until we are forced to try and resolve this before we look deeper into this.

[RBL]

Yes, we are still at a cross roads, but MIP is not to blame. Human behavior is. And that is a whole 'nother issue about who we bring into our organiztions.

COSIGN 100%

[enigma_AKA]

Yep. You are who you make.

enigma_AKA

Originally posted by ladygreek

Yes, we are still at a cross roads, but MIP is not to blame. Human behavior is. And that is a whole 'nother issue about who we bring into our organiztions.

[mccoyred]

Originally posted by marquise1911
Pledging doesn't need to be eliminated, it needs to be controlled.

I think that this right here is the key!

IMHO, I think that the 'upsurge' is related to a larger societal issue of entitlement. Prospectives feel that if they meet the requirements, then they are owed membership, regardless of their reputation, legacy status or work ethic. On the other hand, members feel that they must make someone 'right' in order for them to wear the same letters, without regard to brotherhood/sisterhood, earning respect or their personal example of living the principles.

Based on this larger societal problem, I don't think that eliminating collegiate intake or passing control over to graduate chapters will work either. If the process is modified to give all sides what they NEED, then it will work better. I am not naive enough to think that everyone will be satisfied but the more needs addressed by all parties, the better the process will work.