Join Cardinal Mahony: NO on HR 4437

[Tom Earp]

The White Male Genre is the Minority at the moiment!


Soon there will be No Levels of 3 Levels of Living.

Soon, there will be Those who make Money, (Wealthy), The Poor and The Begone Middle Class, Most of Us!

The Middle Class takes care of the Lower Class and The UPPER Class take care of them selves.

Hell, I am Proud to be a Middle Class Slub who owns a Small Biz, and getting Hosed!

[BobbyTheDon]

Watching the news this past week, I saw alot of kids ditching school and running around the streets (and even freeyways) of L.A. in an attempt to "protest".

Har har har Reminds me of my Jr. High days



Does anyone remember prop 187? I was in jr. high when this was proposed in 94 or 95. I didn't care what the bill was about back then because I was only 13, but just about my entire Jr. High ditched school for in an attempt to protest (simirlar to this past week) Sure dude. They didn't protest, all they did was just go home and whack off or whatever. Good times. I ditched too (but not to protest, because the entire damn school was empty lol) and chanted " Viva La Rasa" with my friends and played video games.

[XOMichelle]

Actually, what it comes down to is recognizing that there is an economic niche for these people in our country's economy. They create wealth while they serve as the bottom labor force of the US. Many pay taxes (since they have fake identification), but do not use soical services because of fear. Trying to give them temporary status in this country delays a problem that ultimately has to be dealt with permanently.


The bill is not only ineffective at dealing with the real issue of having undocumented workers in the country, but it also serves to push more intolerance and prejudice into American society as well as edging away our civil liberties (like having to prove with documentation that you are a citizen if you are 100 miles from a border).

[Rudey]

Originally posted by XOMichelle
Actually, what it comes down to is recognizing that there is an economic niche for these people in our country's economy. They create wealth while they serve as the bottom labor force of the US. Many pay taxes (since they have fake identification), but do not use soical services because of fear. Trying to give them temporary status in this country delays a problem that ultimately has to be dealt with permanently.


The bill is not only ineffective at dealing with the real issue of having undocumented workers in the country, but it also serves to push more intolerance and prejudice into American society as well as edging away our civil liberties (like having to prove with documentation that you are a citizen if you are 100 miles from a border).

You make no sense. Did you not read what I or anyone else wrote?

It would make 11 million illegals into legals.

It would generously allow for the largest Mexican workforce to come here legally in 40 years.

Civil liberties? What are you talking about?

And the law is the law. They are illegal aliens. Do you not understand that? This is about enforcing that law. Should we just close up every embassy and border patrol and let whomever into this country?

How much do they pay in taxes btw?

-Rudey

[AKA_Monet]

Didn't they pass the HR bill? Or is it in the Senate. I'm confused...

We are picking and choosing who we want in the country illegally. Broad stroke generalizations aside, we all know who we are talking about: Latinos--especially the folks who run the border are the folks we want out of the US... And I think that's stupid. Whereas, to put it bluntly, we ain't saying the same thing about the tons of Asians in this country--who are probably here just as illegally--who may just have better bootlegging equipment, more money to buy off politicians, and better "systems" to become legal immigrants, i.e. green card holders.

I work with numerous folks from various ethnic groups from all over the world. All I can say is this law sets bad precedent because it cannot and will not be applied equally to EVERYONE WHO IS IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY... It will be racial profiling and just by hypocrisy alone, we are selling out to the highest bidder for this "global economy".

Earpman has it right--the Middle Class is getting jacked all in between...

And yeah, wrong is wrong, illegal is illegal. But black is not white as cut and dry as you all wanna make it. Summa y'all's ancestors ought not be here based on that logic... You all gonna go back to your "country of origin" based on that kinna thinking? Even if your ancestors fought for the US, just like some "illegal aliens" are now in Iraq? What about them and their families? Oh, yeah, our military does send folks who are not citizens of this country off to war--been done for a long time... And some of our citizens fight for Osama Bin Laden... What does that say?

[epchick]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
Didn't they pass the HR bill? Or is it in the Senate. I'm confused...

We are picking and choosing who we want in the country illegally. Broad stroke generalizations aside, we all know who we are talking about: Latinos--especially the folks who run the border are the folks we want out of the US... And I think that's stupid. Whereas, to put it bluntly, we ain't saying the same thing about the tons of Asians in this country--who are probably here just as illegally--who may just have better bootlegging equipment, more money to buy off politicians, and better "systems" to become legal immigrants, i.e. green card holders.

I work with numerous folks from various ethnic groups from all over the world. All I can say is this law sets bad precedent because it cannot and will not be applied equally to EVERYONE WHO IS IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY... It will be racial profiling and just by hypocrisy alone, we are selling out to the highest bidder for this "global economy".

Earpman has it right--the Middle Class is getting jacked all in between...

And yeah, wrong is wrong, illegal is illegal. But black is not white as cut and dry as you all wanna make it. Summa y'all's ancestors ought not be here based on that logic... You all gonna go back to your "country of origin" based on that kinna thinking? Even if your ancestors fought for the US, just like some "illegal aliens" are now in Iraq? What about them and their families? Oh, yeah, our military does send folks who are not citizens of this country off to war--been done for a long time... And some of our citizens fight for Osama Bin Laden... What does that say?

No they haven't passed the HR 4437, and I dont think they are---they have a few other bills being discussed in the senate.

But anyways, I totally agree with AKA_Monet. The fact that everyone is focusing on the Hispanic population as being the cause of all the problems is wrong. Like miss AKA_Monet said, what about all the other ethnicities that are here illegally? Illegal is illegal is not a good reason to support (or even protest) this bill. There is so many illegal things happening in this country, corrupt politics, drugs, etc. Why focus on the undocumented immigrants. All they want is to be here trying to make life better for their children.

Undocumented immigrants take the lowly jobs, the jobs with not a lot of benefits (and trust me, even if the jobs had benefits the undocumented immigrants dont get it). They rarely use social services for fear of getting caught and being deported. I don't understand the problem with these people becoming legal. So 11+ million people would become legal, is that so wrong? Do you hate the hispanic/latino (and lets just say MEXICAN) population so much that you rather have them all put in jail than just to become a citizen of the country that they want to be a part of?

Do you even know how proud these immigrants are that they are in America!?! The fact that I might have to show documentation at my CHURCH to prove that i'm an American citizen is crazy.

And why are they doing this? Because they don't want any further terrorist attacks. How many times have you heard of a MEXICAN/Puerto Rican/Cuban/etc committing terror attacks? ZERO. Why? Because unlike others, we have pride for the country that our families struggled for. There are so many undocumented immigrants fighting in Iraq that its unreal. My grandfather fought in WWII as an illegal immigrant because he was told he could gain citizenship for him and his family. My mom, her siblings, and all the children were born here in the United States, so we didn't have to struggle like our grandparents (and their siblings) did. So the fact that my country wants to keep out any relatives that I might have is crazy.

Add to the fact that, with HR 4437, I'd get put in jail for 1-20 years for even TALKING to an undocumented immigrant. So if I found out a family member was here in the United States (whether i knew they were undocumented or not) and I wanted to meet them to say "hi" or have lunch with them, I could potentially be locked up for 20 years! How wrong is that?

If it was easy for the immigrants to get a Visa, passport, or anything like that, then they'd get it. But Mexico doesn't make it easy for anyone to get anything like that. We've been trying to get a dance teacher from Mexico over here for a week to teach a workshop. We were told that all she had to do was send a letter explaining the reason she was going and proof (from us here in the US) that what she was saying was true. But they still DENIED access to give her a visa, and to rub salt in that wound for her they granted access to her mother and sister to get a visa for the same reason. Its wrong!

I'm sorry that happened to your uncle kddani.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by epchick
If it wasn't for all our ILLEGAL ancestors, we wouldn't be in this country, and America wouldn't exist as the country it is today (which is both a good and a bad thing).

Ok, my husband is Mexican, and I'm all for immigration & amnesty - but this sentence is just silly.

[Rudey]

I'm here because my ancestors were legal. If yours weren't, that's your burden.

Given that oceans separate us from most other countries, the illegals from Mexico are much more abundant, hence the focus. Either way, nobody said that there would be no enforcement against non-Hispanic illegals. I don't know where that came from.

And we pump billions into anti-drug programs. I would say that we try to enforce it.

So really, is it an anti-hispanic movement? Especially given the hispanic movement's voting power.

Now I think that the bill allowing for the conversion of millions of illegals into legals is a good compromise. On top of that I read a great idea: Give free citizenship to any illegal that turns in a boss that employs illegals.

-Rudey

Originally posted by epchick
No they haven't passed the HR 4437, and I dont think they are---they have a few other bills being discussed in the senate.

But anyways, I totally agree with AKA_Monet. The fact that everyone is focusing on the Hispanic population as being the cause of all the problems is wrong. Like miss AKA_Monet said, what about all the other ethnicities that are here illegally? Illegal is illegal is not a good reason to support (or even protest) this bill. There is so many illegal things happening in this country, corrupt politics, drugs, etc. Why focus on the undocumented immigrants. All they want is to be here trying to make life better for their children. If it wasn't for all our ILLEGAL ancestors, we wouldn't be in this country, and America wouldn't exist as the country it is today (which is both a good and a bad thing).

Undocumented immigrants take the lowly jobs, the jobs with not a lot of benefits (and trust me, even if the jobs had benefits the undocumented immigrants dont get it). They rarely use social services for fear of getting caught and being deported. I don't understand the problem with these people becoming legal. So 11+ million people would become legal, is that so wrong? Do you hate the hispanic/latino (and lets just say MEXICAN) population so much that you rather have them all put in jail than just to become a citizen of the country that they want to be a part of?

Do you even know how proud these immigrants are that they are in America!?! The fact that I might have to show documentation at my CHURCH to prove that i'm an American citizen is crazy.

And why are they doing this? Because they don't want any further terrorist attacks. How many times have you heard of a MEXICAN/Puerto Rican/Cuban/etc committing terror attacks? ZERO. Why? Because unlike others, we have pride for the country that our families struggled for. There are so many undocumented immigrants fighting in Iraq that its unreal. My grandfather fought in WWII as an illegal immigrant because he was told he could gain citizenship for him and his family. My mom, her siblings, and all the children were born here in the United States, so we didn't have to struggle like our grandparents (and their siblings) did. So the fact that my country wants to keep out any relatives that I might have is crazy.

Add to the fact that, with HR 4437, I'd get put in jail for 1-20 years for even TALKING to an undocumented immigrant. So if I found out a family member was here in the United States (whether i knew they were undocumented or not) and I wanted to meet them to say "hi" or have lunch with them, I could potentially be locked up for 20 years! How wrong is that?

If it was easy for the immigrants to get a Visa, passport, or anything like that, then they'd get it. But Mexico doesn't make it easy for anyone to get anything like that. We've been trying to get a dance teacher from Mexico over here for a week to teach a workshop. We were told that all she had to do was send a letter explaining the reason she was going and proof (from us here in the US) that what she was saying was true. But they still DENIED access to give her a visa, and to rub salt in that wound for her they granted access to her mother and sister to get a visa for the same reason. Its wrong!

I'm sorry that happened to your uncle kddani.

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by epchick
If it wasn't for all our ILLEGAL ancestors, we wouldn't be in this country, and America wouldn't exist as the country it is today (which is both a good and a bad thing).

This is painting things with a bit too broad of a stroke. For example, my ancestors came in through legal means, whether it was Ellis Island or other ports of entry.

[epchick]

Originally posted by KSigkid
This is painting things with a bit too broad of a stroke. For example, my ancestors came in through legal means, whether it was Ellis Island or other ports of entry.

Yeah I understand that, but from what I've been told through history class (although now that i think of it, my history teacher could just have fed us some bullshit) at the time...there was really not such thing as a legal immigration.

Looking back at what my professor said, I've come to the conclusion that it was probably some bullshit---so i've retracted my earlier statement.

[BobbyTheDon]

quote:Originally posted by epchick
If it wasn't for all our ILLEGAL ancestors, we wouldn't be in this country, and America wouldn't exist as the country it is today (which is both a good and a bad thing).


Oh man I've got a headache

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by BobbyTheDon
quote:Originally posted by epchick
If it wasn't for all our ILLEGAL ancestors, we wouldn't be in this country, and America wouldn't exist as the country it is today (which is both a good and a bad thing).


Oh man I've got a headache

But would they be considered illegal if there were no laws back then regarding immigration?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
But would they be considered illegal if there were no laws back then regarding immigration?

There were definitely laws back then because they had set up quotas by country and race.

The nativist lobby, including DAR which honeychile is a part of, really pushed for it.

This has a table of some of the quotas. Don't worry, the Polish did OK.

http://history.uchicago.edu/faculty/MaeNgai/ngai.html

-Rudey

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by Rudey
I'm here because my ancestors were legal. If yours weren't, that's your burden.

Given that oceans separate us from most other countries, the illegals from Mexico are much more abundant, hence the focus. Either way, nobody said that there would be no enforcement against non-Hispanic illegals. I don't know where that came from.

And we pump billions into anti-drug programs. I would say that we try to enforce it.

So really, is it an anti-hispanic movement? Especially given the hispanic movement's voting power.

Now I think that the bill allowing for the conversion of millions of illegals into legals is a good compromise. On top of that I read a great idea: Give free citizenship to any illegal that turns in a boss that employs illegals.

-Rudey

and

Originally posted by Rudey
It would make 11 million illegals into legals.

It would generously allow for the largest Mexican workforce to come here legally in 40 years.

Rudey:

I'm sorry, your are wrong with those statements in just saying them. They may be fact on documented textbooks, but the reality is what you are saying is petty and effed up.

It is my understanding that many folks who came through Ellis Island were undocumented and some were illegal. That is why many large cities, like NYC, had the early "race riots" in the late 19th and early 20th century. I do not feel like pulling paper right now.

The other thing is the many Ellis Island folks were ran out of areas like, New Orleans, in the early 20th when they set up their "homesteads" due to the ability to handle the "shipping industry" and ports. In fact, may early 20th century immigrants were barely allowed to live below the Mason-Dixon line until sometime in the 1950s or 60s. And even today, in some parts of the South, they will burn Synagogues rapidly--I remember it happening when I use to live in Atlanta in the 80's...

I do understand the border situation that we are facing. There is the issue--especially at the Texas border that the lines shift, every now and then. How do you explain the "Tejanoes" and their culture? And do NOT tell them they aren't US-Mexican citizens...

Then because of the US-Mexican war in the early 20th century, the US constructed several railroad crossings through parts of Eastern Southern California--the Tecate to Mexicali rail service. In fact, the Colorado River and the California Aquaduct runs through "some parts" of what Mexico can consider their property. I have driven that route several times. And yeah, they got border patrol, but still, you cannot say it is NOT the US encroching on Mexican sovereignty and property rights...

The other bad precedent this kind of law sets, is that it is asking healthcare providers to not do anything to those that suffer--especially emergencies. The elder population rarely goes to the doctors anyway. But the younger population--you just do NOT want young girls throwning babies in trash cans... That is what happens in the migrant camps--girls are being raped, etc. I have seen that with my own eyes and it is not cool. I'd rather have them feel like they have a safe haven than to live in fear of living here because folks are afraid of "brown skinned people"

Now, there is a way around this ruling and there ain't chit the US can do, 'cuz there will be a backlash that the US hasn't seen in a VERY LONG TIME... The First Nations--Native American population can ceremoniously declare lands that the US had stolen from them and I bet they got better proof of it and a lot more lawyers to help them--especially the gaming tribes. But even the Navajo nation can ceremoniously declare the entire state of New Mexico as their land and the land below it which is part of the Guadalajara state in Mexico...

[BobbyTheDon]

*From a myspace bulletin

I just thought I would repost this because we all know that it's true.

More than 36,000 students from throughout Los Angeles County, California skipped classes and marched through streets and on various freeways Monday, March 27, 2006, to protest an immigration bill being debated in Congress. "We may be illegal immigrants, but we are human," Metropolitan High School senior Melania Preciado said as she waved a Mexican flag. "We deserve the same rights as everyone else, not be treated like criminals." What an ironic statement.

If we all went to Mexico...would we be treated as humans?? (Think of all your friends who have driven down to Mexico for a weekend trip and were either thrown in jail for looking at the Mexican police the wrong way, or were pulled over for no apparent reason and FORCED to pay off the Mexican police in order NOT to be thrown in jail)...

1. Try driving around as a Gringo in Mexico with no

liability insurance, and have an accident.



2. Enter MEXICO illegally - never mind immigration quotas,

visas, international law, or any of that nonsense.



3. Once there, demand that the local government provide

free medical care for you and your entire family.



4. Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.



5. Demand free bilingual local government forms,

bulletins, etc.



6. Speak only English at home and in public and insist

that your children do likewise.



7. Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican

school system.



8. Demand a local Mexican drivers license. This will

afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your

unauthorized, illegal, presence in Mexico.



9. Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English

to all its officers.



Good luck!



It will not happen in Mexico nor any other country
Try
in the world...except right here in the United States...

Land of those who want to take care of everyone,

except American Citizens!


These "student" protesters, haven't the slightest clue as to what the hell is really going on. They just want an excuse to leave school. What a disgrace to AMERICA, our country!

If you're going to waive a Mexican flag to support your heritage, fine... Just make sure there is an American one next to it...the land that gives to all of its immigrants, and you. IF Mexico is SOOOOO great - Why leave it and come to America? Think about it! Mexico isn't giving their people what they deserve, and that's why they want to be here in America. What is Mexico really doing for its people, other than making them desparate to leave? This is not about people coming to America...just come legally, so the legal system, education, medical, housing, etc., can operate more smoothly and fair for those who are citizens, and those who long to be.


If you agree, pass it on.

If you don't, Please....go ahead and try all the

above in Mexico (and enjoy the prison there too...).