Men and unplanned pregnancies - Page 2

preciousjeni · #1 03-09-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie
Personally, I agree that a man should be able to decline responsibility for a child he doesn't want to have. That said, I don't think it will ever happen.

I'm pretty much in agreement here.

DeltAlum · #2 03-09-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I do the personnel stuff for my office, and I'm also a mom, and trust me, there's absolutly NO economic incentive. The child support that the women recieve probably barely covers the cost of food for the child (especially infants when you have to buy formula).

On the subject of father's rights, NPR had a story this monring about a state (I don't remember which, but think it was in the NE) that is looking at a law which would allow fathers to decrease their child support if they took more responsibility in the raising of the child.

The overly simplistic argument is that if the dad has the child half of the time (let's say every other week) -- rather than every other weekend -- why should he pay as much as the weekend dad?

A number of states are supposed to be looking at this kind of bill.

valkyrie · #3 03-09-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OhioCentaur
I'm not excusing abortion at all... i'm a strong supporter of pro life... My only problem is at some point someone has to step up and accept responsibility. If you know you cant take care of a kid, then dont have sex... PERIOD. Stop populating the world if you cant provide for those you bring into the world. Its that simple.

That or all you half assed men who sleep with anything that spreads should get fixed so you cant reproduce. My focus is on men, i cant really speak on the female side of things... other than if you know your not ready then dont lay down.

No. I'm so sick of hearing this "if you don't want to/can't take care of a kid, don't have sex." You know, there are people who don't want to have kids, EVER. Saying that they shouldn't have sex is ridiculous.

The getting fixed idea is nice but not so easy. An oops is still possible, and do you have any idea how difficult it is for a woman without kids to find a doctor who will perform a tubal ligation?

OhioCentaur · #4 03-09-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie
No. I'm so sick of hearing this "if you don't want to/can't take care of a kid, don't have sex." You know, there are people who don't want to have kids, EVER. Saying that they shouldn't have sex is ridiculous.

The getting fixed idea is nice but not so easy. An oops is still possible, and do you have any idea how difficult it is for a woman without kids to find a doctor who will perform a tubal ligation?

OK i'll REPEAT what i said... i cant really speak on the WOMAN'S SIDE of the matter... all i can speak for is the men's side of things. No i dont know how difficult it is, and dammit who said having sex is what makes the world go around... it may seem ridiculous but its realistic. If you cant take the heat get the hell out the kitchen. People that cant handle the car shouldnt drive it... ride the bus or for those of you who feel you just have to have sex buy a dildo or stick to oral sex... you still get off and there are no freakin OOPS or UH OH or whatever you wanna call it.

Get your mind right... sex isnt life but when you create life you have to take care of it. God gave you a hand use it if u dont want to have an oops!

OhioCentaur · #5 03-09-2006, 02:46 PM

My apologies if thats too upfront or vulgar for you but hey thats life!

mulattogyrl · #6 03-09-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie
Personally, I agree that a man should be able to decline responsibility for a child he doesn't want to have. That said, I don't think it will ever happen.

I think I agree with this.

jwright25 · #7 03-09-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phasad1913
If the government's position is that forcing a man to pay for an unwanted child is protecting the interests of the child, I don't buy it because the child can be even more damaged if its father reluctantly pays money and does nothing else for him or resents its mother and beats her AND THE CHILD up. I'd rather take the chance of the woman finding another father for the child (stepfather, for example) and bringing the kid up in love and peacefulness than forcing a bad father to stay in the picture.

Agree, Agree, Agree. And I don't think this example is that extreme. It is quite a common situation that I've seen many times. Unfortunately, there are women out there who put their own financial wants above the needs of their children.

Regarding avoiding sex altogether if you can't take care of a kid. That's a great theory, but unfortunately it is just not reality. Abstinence programs are under fire in some school systems. Most people who engage in responsible sexual activity or abstinence do so because they were properly educated at school AND at home. When I was in high school and college, the people who were having unprotected sex were either products of lazy parenting or waaaay overprotective parenting where anything related to sex (including MTV) was absolutely off-limits. Most of these people ended up pregnant or with diseases.

So abstinence can be a goal, but it can't be the only option to discuss in this day and age. We can sit here as adults and say "No, sex doesn't make the world go 'round." But will horny teenagers stop and think about it? No. Will drunken college students stop and think about it? No. We just have to hope that we've educated them enough before these situations that some of what they learned will kick in and they'll find a condom.

Please don't think I'm advocating teaching 5-year-olds how to put a condom on the banana in their lunchbox. But children are getting more and more sexually active at younger ages. And if we stop to think about human history, we really aren't that far removed from when girls were married at 14 and started churning out kids at 15. So now all of the sudden we expect people to just forget what their natural instincts are and to forget what quite possibly their own grandparents and great-grandparents did. It's still pretty common in my family to be married VEEERY young. I'm 31, and I have a cousin who is 2 years older than me whose son is graduating high school next year. I haven't even had a kid yet. 14-year-olds don't need to be getting married, but we have to come to terms with the fact that biologically they are sexually mature mammals and may engage in sex.

Wow. Way off on a tangent there. Sorry.

valkyrie · #8 03-09-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OhioCentaur
OK i'll REPEAT what i said... i cant really speak on the WOMAN'S SIDE of the matter... all i can speak for is the men's side of things. No i dont know how difficult it is, and dammit who said having sex is what makes the world go around... it may seem ridiculous but its realistic. If you cant take the heat get the hell out the kitchen. People that cant handle the car shouldnt drive it... ride the bus or for those of you who feel you just have to have sex buy a dildo or stick to oral sex... you still get off and there are no freakin OOPS or UH OH or whatever you wanna call it.

Get your mind right... sex isnt life but when you create life you have to take care of it. God gave you a hand use it if u dont want to have an oops!

I'm sorry that your experiences have been so bad that you think masturbation, dildos, or oral sex are acceptable substitutes for actual sex.

Moving on, what point are you trying to make, exactly? You've said that you don't support abortion and are "a strong supporter of pro life." You've said that people who don't want to take care of kids shouldn't have sex. It's great that you have your opinions, but what do they mean to anybody else? Do you think your opinions (and I'm assuming your pro-life views are based at least in part on this "God" that you mention) warrant laws prohibiting abortion, or are you just talking smack?

Also, I'll thank you to refrain from telling me to get my mind right, young man. Why in the hell should a grown woman who doesn't want to have children stop having sex? Because you said so?

OhioCentaur · #9 03-09-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie
I'm sorry that your experiences have been so bad that you think masturbation, dildos, or oral sex are acceptable substitutes for actual sex.

Moving on, what point are you trying to make, exactly? You've said that you don't support abortion and are "a strong supporter of pro life." You've said that people who don't want to take care of kids shouldn't have sex. It's great that you have your opinions, but what do they mean to anybody else? Do you think your opinions (and I'm assuming your pro-life views are based at least in part on this "God" that you mention) warrant laws prohibiting abortion, or are you just talking smack?

Also, I'll thank you to refrain from telling me to get my mind right, young man. Why in the hell should a grown woman who doesn't want to have children stop having sex? Because you said so?

Your making excuses for people who participate in sex and cant handle what happens when you have sex. Its just that easy. There is a consequence for EVERYTHING you do, so if your so afraid of popping kids out dont do what it takes to create them. Your saying "oh its so difficult to get fixed so i'll just use the fact that i dont want any as an excuse to keep doing what i know will one day cause me to have kids if i'm not careful and even if i'm careful it could still happen". And dont let my AGE fool you dear. Just because you may be twice or 3 times my age doesnt make you exempt from the fact that if you dont want kids dont do what it takes to have them. If you are going to do it know that you may have kids its just that plain and simple.

And i'll laugh at your meager attempt to talk about MY experiences... but hey if thats how you feel then so be it... MY WHOLE arguement is people should not use what they want as an excuse to continue to do what they know will cause them what they dont want. If you dont want lung cancer dont smoke... yes its true you may get it from being around those that smoke but those are circumstances you can NOT control... You may not feel what i'm saying and thats all well and good, i didnt respond to the thread to get your stamp of approval, nor will it stop my flow so there is that tidbit for ya.

I'm not directly telling you to not have sex... just dont complain and kill a child because you got what you deserved for having sex.

NinjaPoodle · #10 03-09-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie
The getting fixed idea is nice but not so easy. An oops is still possible, and do you have any idea how difficult it is for a woman without kids to find a doctor who will perform a tubal ligation?

Sorry, that doesnt fly.

1. Word of Mouth from other doctors, patients
2. Internet
3. State board of medicine

OhioCentaur · #11 03-09-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AXiD670
So, you're saying that married couples who have decided they don't want children shouldn't have sex? That physical intimacy isn't important in marriage?

No i'm saying people who complain they dont want kids but do what it takes to make them are wrong. Thats what i'm saying. If i dont want to get drunk i dont drink. How hard is that to comprehend? the problem that gets me fired up is there are children who grow up with parents who make those mistakes, and are left to their own devices in life... thats why adoption agencies are begging people to adopt, and why social services are overwhelmed with cases... can you not see the problem with that? its extreme and i admit that fully but how else can you stop all of these pregnancies and abandoned kids???

I can speak with such emotion because i've lived that. I know what its like to have to piece of shit parents who did the deed then didnt want to take responsibility so when i say just dont have sex thats what i mean. You can take the advice or not its up to you... its an extreme solution but this problem doesnt need to be sugar coated because its dealing with the lives of OTHER PEOPLE. Its not just the man and the woman who are affected... its the child or children they produce and the social workers the foster and adoptive parents or the wardens of the state

jubilance1922 · #12 03-09-2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OhioCentaur
Your making excuses for people who participate in sex and cant handle what happens when you have sex. Its just that easy. There is a consequence for EVERYTHING you do, so if your so afraid of popping kids out dont do what it takes to create them. Your saying "oh its so difficult to get fixed so i'll just use the fact that i dont want any as an excuse to keep doing what i know will one day cause me to have kids if i'm not careful and even if i'm careful it could still happen". And dont let my AGE fool you dear. Just because you may be twice or 3 times my age doesnt make you exempt from the fact that if you dont want kids dont do what it takes to have them. If you are going to do it know that you may have kids its just that plain and simple.

And i'll laugh at your meager attempt to talk about MY experiences... but hey if thats how you feel then so be it... MY WHOLE arguement is people should not use what they want as an excuse to continue to do what they know will cause them what they dont want. If you dont want lung cancer dont smoke... yes its true you may get it from being around those that smoke but those are circumstances you can NOT control... You may not feel what i'm saying and thats all well and good, i didnt respond to the thread to get your stamp of approval, nor will it stop my flow so there is that tidbit for ya.

I'm not directly telling you to not have sex... just dont complain and kill a child because you got what you deserved for having sex.

Your time would be better spend dealing with the REALITY of the world, which is that folks aren't going to stop having sex. Hell, knowing that you could DIE from having sex didn't stop folks, so why do you think that people are going to wake up tomorrow and say "I'm not ready to have a child, I better stop having sex and start masturbating." Nope, not gonna happen. And if you really feel that abstinence is the key, then you should be an example of that. Don't talk about it, be about it.

As for your "kill a child" comment....Lots of folks don't believe that abortion is murder, so how are you gonna convince them to not have abortions?

jubilance1922 · #13 03-09-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OhioCentaur
No i'm saying people who complain they dont want kids but do what it takes to make them are wrong. Thats what i'm saying. If i dont want to get drunk i dont drink. How hard is that to comprehend? the problem that gets me fired up is there are children who grow up with parents who make those mistakes, and are left to their own devices in life... thats why adoption agencies are begging people to adopt, and why social services are overwhelmed with cases... can you not see the problem with that? its extreme and i admit that fully but how else can you stop all of these pregnancies and abandoned kids???

I can speak with such emotion because i've lived that. I know what its like to have to piece of shit parents who did the deed then didnt want to take responsibility so when i say just dont have sex thats what i mean. You can take the advice or not its up to you... its an extreme solution but this problem doesnt need to be sugar coated because its dealing with the lives of OTHER PEOPLE. Its not just the man and the woman who are affected... its the child or children they produce and the social workers the foster and adoptive parents or the wardens of the state

So since you're pro-life, that means that you are or will be a foster parent and/or adoptive parent right?

Honeykiss1974 · #14 03-09-2006, 04:34 PM

Being pro-life or pro-choice really isn't the issue here - its PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for your actions, which seems to be in lack nowadays.

I think everyone on earth knows that if you have sex, there is a possibility that you will get pregnant or inpregnate someone. If you do not want to become pregnant (or inpregnate someone) there are things you can do to reduce or eliminate this from happening. That's not a point of view or political belief, that's life.

The question is (and point of the article) should men be allowed to simply "walk away" from this responsibility or have a "say" in the outcome, regardless if the pregnancy was on purpose or accidential? Should father's be allowed to shirk that responsibility? Because you know, sometimes life isn't fair and you do have to take responsibility for your actions - regardless as to what your initial intentions were (ie. serious relationship vs. booty call).

preciousjeni · #15 03-09-2006, 04:36 PM

It doesn't look to me that OhioCentaur is suggesting that abstinence is the answer...rather that if you ARE going to have sex then you SHOULD be responsible for the consequences. If this were the case, we wouldn't even have situations in which people are trying to divorce themselves from the pregnancy/child rearing through abortion or not paying child support.

His point makes sense to me but I know people are not that responsible nor mature.