Naval Academy charges QB Owens with rape

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Knowing football players, the chances of him actually being innocent are slim to none.

Service Academy athletes are an entirely different breed than, say, 'eers or Panthers. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Or maybe oranges and limes. But you get my drift.

Having known several dozen "football factory" players and an equal number who have graduated from (mostly) USNA, I definitely know of what I speak.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
Service Academy athletes are an entirely different breed...

I wish I'd said it that way.

The first thing you notice is how bright they all are -- they have to be to get in. Unfortunately, that's not true in some places.

Second, they play for the love of the game because, with a very small number of notable exceptions, they have little or no chance to play professional (NFL Level) football after graduation -- there's this active duty thing they have to look forward to.

As the guy (I'm spacing his name right now) who wrote the book "Civil Wars" about the Army/Navy Game rivalry/tradition wrote, some of these players will trade gridiron wars for very real ones after graduation.

Of years of televising college football games, my most memorable was the year that two of the guys who worked for me and I did ten service academy games -- three at each academy and one at the Meadowlands. The atmosphere is just so great and the people you deal with are, for the most part, absolutely outstanding.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
As the guy (I'm spacing his name right now) who wrote the book "Civil Wars" about the Army/Navy Game rivalry/tradition wrote, some of these players will trade gridiron wars for very real ones after graduation.

John Feinstein. Wasn't that a great book? I got it for Mr. KR a few Christmasses back.

We went to the wedding of one of Mr. KR's classmates a couple of springs ago and Navy's All-American safety* was in the wedding party (Mr. KR's classmate was his "sponsor dad"). Mr. KR is a huge Navy football fan so he went up to him at the reception to shake his hand even though he'd never met him before. This young man stood up when Mr. KR approached his table, seemed genuinely happy to "talk football" for a few minutes and, when Mr. KR and I left, said, "It was nice meeting you, Sir, Ma'am."

Just trying to imagine Marcus Vick or someone of his ilk doing that! lol

*ETA: Mr. KR has informed me that he doesn't think he was an All-American; not first team anyway. But he was really good lol

[alum]

Loved that book!!! Many of that Army class of '96ers mentioned were GEN Alum's students during his first year on the faculty. Nice young men, every one of them.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
John Feinstein.

This young man stood up when Mr. KR approached his table, seemed genuinely happy to "talk football" for a few minutes and, when Mr. KR and I left, said, "It was nice meeting you, Sir, Ma'am."

Right! Great book.

I'll bet the young man almost stood to attention at that.

I was called "Sir" so many times that season it was almost embarassing.

Not just by the players, but everyone in the Corp/Brigade/Wing.

[alum]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Right! Great book.

I'll bet the young man almost stood to attention at that.

I was called "Sir" so many times that season it was almost embarassing.

Not just by the players, but everyone in the Corp/Brigade/Wing.

Ma'am and Sir are just signs of deference to elders, military or not. It's one of the many things I love about the military life. Everything is so clear-cut. Live amongst our own rank, huge delineations between officers and enlisted and warrants...We all know exactly how little everybody makes in terms of salary(we are in the military after all) and there is very little artifice or pretense.

Many nonmilitary southern kids are raised to "sir and ma'am" any adult. I thought it was a breath of fresh air to hear college students use those phraes. Home training shows.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by alum
Ma'am and Sir are just signs of deference to elders, military or not.

That's true, but it doesn't happen all that often in the rest of the world these days.

Some of those kids would salute a lamp post and call it "Sir."

(Although after being in Civil Air Patrol in High School, the first time I snapped off a salute to a cadet officer as a freshman ROTC student passing on the street on a drill day, he looked at me like I was nuts. Pretty different than the academies)

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by alum
It's one of the many things I love about the military life. Everything is so clear-cut.

I think you and I are definitely on the same page with that, alum! I guess the way my mind works, I like everything in orderly, neat little boxes and the Navy is great for that. Plus the friends you make, you keep forever. You know you're never going to *not* see someone again (unless the unthinkable happens), it's only a matter of where and when.

Mr. KR's plebe year roommate called two days before he set foot in the US after two years to say he was coming in from Belgium to teach at a conference. Sorry for the short notice; could we get together? Damn straight we could get together, and we had a blast.

The only down side is the financial aspects of serving ones country. Mr KR is in the Reserves and he was called up for six months of active duty in 2002. He was a pretty senior O4 at the time which means the Navy was expecting us to live on XXX amount of dollars for those six months and, believe me, it could not be done. We had a certain lifestyle we were accustomed to and that paycheck wasn't going to be able to finance it. And we don't live some outrageous, Paris Hilton-like life either!!! lol I'm talking home expenses, lessons, school for the girls, a car payment and just regular day to day stuff. The military does not give you much to work with.

Thank heavens the company he works for paid the difference between his base pay in the Navy and his base pay in his civilian job so that was definitely a load off my shoulders. Mr. KR's, too, since you don't want to have to worry about your family when you're over there getting something called "eminent danger pay"

[alum]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose

The only down side is the financial aspects of serving ones country. Mr KR is in the Reserves and he was called up for six months of active duty in 2002. He was a pretty senior O4 at the time which means the Navy was expecting us to live on XXX amount of dollars for those six months and, believe me, it could not be done. We had a certain lifestyle we were accustomed to and that paycheck wasn't going to be able to finance it. And we don't live some outrageous, Paris Hilton-like life either!!! lol I'm talking home expenses, lessons, school for the girls, a car payment and just regular day to day stuff. The military does not give you much to work with.

GEN Alum has always been active-duty so I can't compare based on personal experience, but what KR says is valid. She is very lucky that her spouse's company picked up the difference.

[Tom Earp]

So, just how old is General Alum?

I have several Brother Alums who Got Birds and are still very young!

You may have seen one who was teaching Diane Sawyer How to Drive a Tank at Ft. Knox on 60 Min!

The So Called Military Academys are suppose to be held to Higher Standards above more traditional Schools. The Air Force Academy saeems to be a little different though!

Oh, let us not forget "The Other Schools that school Military and are respected Schools".

Tx. A & M, The Citadel, VMI, and others!

While they are held to Higher Standards, there is still the Primevil urge to do things=sex.

They/Some feel above the Code as it were when they are not!

[alum]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
So, just how old is General Alum?

I have several Brother Alums who Got Birds and are still very young!

You may have seen one who was teaching Diane Sawyer How to Drive a Tank at Ft. Knox on 60 Min!

The So Called Military Academys are suppose to be held to Higher Standards above more traditional Schools. The Air Force Academy saeems to be a little different though!

Oh, let us not forget "The Other Schools that school Military and are respected Schools".

Tx. A & M, The Citadel, VMI, and others!

While they are held to Higher Standards, there is still the Primevil urge to do things=sex.

They/Some feel above the Code as it were when they are not!

The US Service Academies (WP, Annapolis and Colorado Springs) have a very lengthy set of criteria for prospective students.

Paraphrased from the WP website: Applicants must meet certain requirements specified by public law in order to be considered for admission to West Point. They will be evaluated in three areas: academic performance, demonstrated leadership potential, and physical aptitude. They must also meet strict medical qualification requirements. First of all, they must be United States citizens, at least 17 and not yet 23 years of age on July 1 of the year of admission. Applicants must not be married, pregnant, or have a legal obligation to support a child or children. If the applicant is a naturalized citizen, documentation must be provided.

Applicants must get a nomination from their senator, congressman, vice-president or president. Every Senator and Congressman can have 5 students in the entire student body at each academy. In some congressional districts it is much easier to get a nomination than in others.

At the US Coast Guard Academy and the US Merchant Marine Academy, the nomination isn't mandatory but the oher criteria still applies.

All the US Service Academies incur minimum mandatory years of active-duty service in exchange for the education. There is no tuition.

I believe (and I could definitely be wrong on this) the state schools such as VMI etc, have state tuition and there is no service req. Of course these schools all have ROTC programs and some will have their tuition paid through that.
Also the state military schools don't focus on a particular branch of service.

[AlphaSigOU]

The state military academy graduates (Citadel, Texas A&M, Norwich, VMI, etc.) don't incur any military service obligation unless they're on an ROTC scholarship. Generally, at least in the Air Force, it's a five-year minimum commitment for ROTC/OTS/USAFA grads, unless you land a navigator slot, which is six years, or a pilot slot for ten years.

In days of old, some of the state military colleges were well known for placing their students in different Army branches. For example: Norwich = cavalry, Texas A&M = artillery, Citadel and VMI = infantry.

[georgewallace3]

Having friends at The Citadel, West Point, and The Naval Academy....I have always heard that The Citadel was the most hardcore out of all of them, and that the pecentage of Citadel grads in the Army Rangers and Special Forces divisions was overwhelming.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by georgewallace3
Having friends at The Citadel, West Point, and The Naval Academy....I have always heard that The Citadel was the most hardcore out of all of them, and that the pecentage of Citadel grads in the Army Rangers and Special Forces divisions was overwhelming.

I tend to think that that particular bit of wisdom came from your friend at the Citadel? I think that the cadets at all of the state military schools think THEIR school is the most hardcore.

I will give them kudos, though, for being willing to shell out money to get the abuse mine and alum's husbands took for free! lol

ETA: I'd be interested in reading your source regarding the percentage of Citadel graduates in Spec Ops if you have a minute to post it. Thanks!

[alum]

What KR said....

From what I understand the VMI, Citadel etc inductions before school begins is about a week or 2, whereas Army, Navy and Air Force begin in late June, early July. I know R-Day for USMA is June 26 this year. Cadet Basic Training (fondly known as Beast Barracks) is approximately 8 fun-filled weeks before classes start. During this time, the new students are not cadets but New Cadets and will be until their full induction into the Corps in August. Then comes plebe year and they will be fully recognized at the end of the year.

Many cadets have said over the years:
..."West Point is a $500,000 education... shoved up your ___ - one nickel at a time"

When Gen Alum was there the quote was only $250K. Inflation, I guess.

KR, ask the admiral if there was the same adage about Navy.

________
This is NOT denigrating any ROTC program or state military college. It's just that the US service academies are different and have a sole purpose.