Standardized Testing, Merit Pay, but Most College Grads Still Lack Skills

[Amaterasu]

This is one of the dumbest 'reforms' I have seen in a while.

Obviously the richer, whiter school districts and teachers will get the extra money and the raise, whereas the struggling inner city teachers...but they are probably already used to that, and expecting it, sadly.

Besides everything that you sisters (and brothers) already listed, there's also the matter that when a child in the suburbs is failing or not doing well on tests, his or her parents can afford private tutoring or special classes for them. Inner-city kids' parents typically don't make enough for that, and even if they did, the kid is possibly working and wouldn't have the time to take the class/tutoring.

[06pilot]

I agree that you shouldnt pay teachers more just because their students score hire on a test. Thats not fair becauase differant students learn at a differant rate. I dont believe however that has to do with where you come from. Just as ther eare smart kids in the inner city, ther eare dslow learners in the suburbs as well. Just because a family has money doesnt make their kids smarter. But thats just what I believe. I am sure many of you disagree with that statement and thats cool.

[soft&beautiful]

Originally posted by 06pilot
I agree that you shouldnt pay teachers more just because their students score hire on a test. Thats not fair becauase differant students learn at a differant rate. I dont believe however that has to do with where you come from. Just as ther eare smart kids in the inner city, ther eare dslow learners in the suburbs as well. Just because a family has money doesnt make their kids smarter. But thats just what I believe. I am sure many of you disagree with that statement and thats cool.

No, I actually agree with you. But the thing is is that there is a disparity in education and our (inner city)children get the brunt of it.

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by Amaretto Sour
Aside from the fact that I don't see how this would affect art/PE/music teachers..

the incentive pay has 3 "strands" to it and the first strand is school-wide improvement. if the school meets the requirement, then ALL teaching staff receive a bonus on the first strand.

[Wonderful1908]

Originally posted by 06pilot
I agree that you shouldnt pay teachers more just because their students score hire on a test. Thats not fair becauase differant students learn at a differant rate. I dont believe however that has to do with where you come from. Just as ther eare smart kids in the inner city, ther eare dslow learners in the suburbs as well. Just because a family has money doesnt make their kids smarter. But thats just what I believe. I am sure many of you disagree with that statement and thats cool.

No I don't think more money makes you smarter, it just opens up the door in some many areas including education.

[Amaretto Sour]

Originally posted by 06pilot
I dont believe however that has to do with where you come from.

So... you believe that "your situation" is how it NORMALLY happens?

Originally posted by 06pilot
Just as ther eare smart kids in the inner city, ther eare dslow learners in the suburbs as well. Just because a family has money doesnt make their kids smarter. But thats just what I believe. I am sure many of you disagree with that statement and thats cool.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you there.

There are extreeeeeeeemely smart kids in the inner city. However, because there is little to no money in their school system, it's hard to create or maintain programs that mentally and educationally motivate those inner-city children.

You ever sat in class one day and was stuck listening to a teacher teach a subject that you already know? It was a boring experience and you probably didn't pay attention to squat that the teacher said.. played with whatever you could find to entertain yourself.. or maybe slept. For a lot of those "smart kids" in the inner city, that's what it's like EVERY day. Teachers even run the risk of losing the SMART kids (ala Lisa Simpson) because they start to feel like they don't belong where they're at.. and unfortunately sabotage themselves (ala Bart Simpson).

No one is denying that there are dumb kids in the suburbs.. but thanks to the weird programming and plans in place, the suburban schools can afford things called "resource classes" where they have teachers (not teaching assts, but real certified teachers) who do nothing but sit one on one with students for an entire class period and teach them. They can afford to sponsor the child's tutoring. Those schools can even afford to send you to Sylvan Learning Center (or a reasonable facsimile) to get the help you very well may truly need.

I don't know of ANY inner city areas that can do those things.

I think we all can agree that money opens doors that knowledge and even connections can not. If I am a high school junior/senior who wants to go to college, I'll take the SAT, right? Let's say that a suburban area-based student takes it and scores a 950.. and that happens a LOT. That kid's parents say "that score is unacceptable." What will they do? They'll go out and buy SAT study guides, sponsor their child to take SAT study classes, purchase the time of a tutor, all that. I know kids who had to borrow money from Grandma or Friend to take the SAT and be STUCK with the one score they got.

[AKA2D '91]

For the entire article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060119/...llege_students


WASHINGTON - Nearing a diploma, most college students cannot handle many complex but common tasks, from understanding credit card offers to comparing the cost per ounce of food.


Those are the sobering findings of a study of literacy on college campuses, the first to target the skills of students as they approach the start of their careers.

More than 50 percent of students at four-year schools and more than 75 percent at two-year colleges lacked the skills to perform complex literacy tasks.

That means they could not interpret a table about exercise and blood pressure, understand the arguments of newspaper editorials, compare credit card offers with different interest rates and annual fees or summarize results of a survey about parental involvement in school.

The results cut across three types of literacy: analyzing news stories and other prose, understanding documents and having math skills needed for checkbooks or restaurant tips.

"It is kind of disturbing that a lot of folks are graduating with a degree and they're not going to be able to do those things," said Stephane Baldi, the study's director at the American Institutes for Research, a behavioral and social science research organization.

[Amaretto Sour]

Can anyone spot the problem?

Is there blame to place? Do we place blame on parents, or teachers?

Are we placing blame on teachers, and using the good ol' capitalist call of MONEY to bribe teachers into somehow pulling student proficiency out of their derrieres?

Am I lost?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
For the entire article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060119/...llege_students


WASHINGTON - Nearing a diploma, most college students cannot handle many complex but common tasks, from understanding credit card offers to comparing the cost per ounce of food.


Those are the sobering findings of a study of literacy on college campuses, the first to target the skills of students as they approach the start of their careers.

More than 50 percent of students at four-year schools and more than 75 percent at two-year colleges lacked the skills to perform complex literacy tasks.

That means they could not interpret a table about exercise and blood pressure, understand the arguments of newspaper editorials, compare credit card offers with different interest rates and annual fees or summarize results of a survey about parental involvement in school.

The results cut across three types of literacy: analyzing news stories and other prose, understanding documents and having math skills needed for checkbooks or restaurant tips.

"It is kind of disturbing that a lot of folks are graduating with a degree and they're not going to be able to do those things," said Stephane Baldi, the study's director at the American Institutes for Research, a behavioral and social science research organization.

Here's what I find interesting about the article:

The college survey used the same test as the National Assessment of Adult Literacy, the government's examination of English literacy among adults. The results of that study were released in December, showing about one in 20 adults is not literate in English.

On campus, the tests were given in 2003 to a representative sample of 1,827 students at public and private schools. The Pew Charitable Trusts funded the survey.

It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Who are these students that they are testing who attend college?

Once can tell they did not test HBCU's ...

So, I am left wondering who are these students?

[allsmiles_22]

^^
I'm confused because they are using that sample to state:

More than 50 percent of students at four-year schools and more than 75 percent at two-year colleges lacked the skills to perform complex literacy tasks.

[AKA2D '91]

I'on no!


While in the lounge today, a 12th Grade English teacher mentioned that she was NOT going to require her students to complete a research paper! I nearly fell out of the floor. Teachers are soooooooo trying to prepare for these mandated tests that they are not touching the "basics".

How are you not going to do a research paper? Okay, the percentage of students who go to college directly after graduation (at our school) is low, but still...I did not understand that! One day, he or she may decide to go on, but they won't have the experience of conducting research, etc. I know I used my HS MLA book throughout college. I would have used in in grad school, but I had to move on to APA.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
Who are these students that they are testing who attend college?

Once can tell they did not test HBCU's ...

So, I am left wondering who are these students?

Browsing through the study I was a little disappointed that they didn't name any of the schools where subjects were educated, nor did it seem that they offered any regional breakdown of results either...

For those interested in the study; don't worry it's actually pretty simple and light reading ~ I guess those tested had to be able to understand it too :

http://www.air.org/news/documents/Th...l%20report.pdf

[Wonderful1908]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
I'on no!


While in the lounge today, a 12th Grade English teacher mentioned that she was NOT going to require her students to complete a research paper! I nearly fell out of the floor. Teachers are soooooooo trying to prepare for these mandated tests that they are not touching the "basics".

How are you not going to do a research paper? Okay, the percentage of students who go to college directly after graduation (at our school) is low, but still...I did not understand that! One day, he or she may decide to go on, but they won't have the experience of conducting research, etc. I know I used my HS MLA book throughout college. I would have used in in grad school, but I had to move on to APA.

I can believe this. Students are so low on the basics she probably CAN'T assign the research paper. I mean if my job is tied to test scores and a research paper is not on that test, guess what, we are gonna get what is on that test mastered before anything else. It's a catch 22, teaching really is so hard.....

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
I'on no!


While in the lounge today, a 12th Grade English teacher mentioned that she was NOT going to require her students to complete a research paper! I nearly fell out of the floor. Teachers are soooooooo trying to prepare for these mandated tests that they are not touching the "basics".

Another way of looking at this is that research papers can be purchased on-line. So even if she did assign a research paper, I'm sure a student or two would purchase their paper on-line and the teacher could not be sure if all of her students actually wrote the paper.

But, as the teacher I would still teach how to do a research paper, since it is critical preparation for college.

[AKA2D '91]

It's not hard to determine if a paper was plagiarized, bought, copied, etc. If you have had a student all year, a nine weeks period, one week,or even ONE day you WILL know what the student is capable of doing (vocabulary, usage, sentence structure, mechanics, etc). If the high school student writes on a certain level (let's say 6th grade), then ALL of a sudden, the student turns in a paper that is stellar, you become suspicious.