Even Stupider Suspension - Page 2

Kimmie1913 · #16 12-09-2005, 03:24 PM

Actually, the US does not have an official language.

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
I'm inclined to agree with AGDee on this, for several reasons:

1) Rules are rules. If "no speaking a foreign language" is a rule, then he should not have been doing so.

2) Alternative Schools means the same thing here - I doubt that this is the first time this kid has been in trouble.

3) Saying that you're going to fiscally handicap yourself in 20 years by not learning Spanish is just an out. They've said that about Russian, they've said that about Japanese. That famous "they" seem to have been wrong both times. The official language of the United States is English!

I am all for learning other languages - I have taken four other languages, am semi-fluent in two, and have picked up enough of three other languages to at least communicate. Actually, I would like to see everyone know at least two languages, from kindergarten on up. But! There is a time and place for everything, and if this school says no to other languages outside of class, then so be it.

damasa · #17 12-09-2005, 03:31 PM

We have an official language now?! Oh great sweetness!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag..._United_States

http://www.answers.com/topic/languag...-united-states

Dang, and I got my hopes up for nothing!

Rudey · #18 12-09-2005, 03:42 PM

English is the de facto official language of the US. The majority of states in the US have it as their official language as well I thought too.

And yes, you may have trouble removing it in public areas, but you can inject English for sure into those areas (ie making sure the stores in a city all have English signs).

It's a foolish argument to say "Learn Spanish" because in 50 years everyone will know it. It's circular and I don't realize how people don't see that. Plus the Chinese will win by a land slide in terms of unabated population growth and world influence over any Spanish speaking region, so maybe you should all learn Chinese instead.

-Rudey

honeychile · #19 12-09-2005, 04:24 PM

Mea Culpa!!! Hundreds of thousands of immigrants learned... German?

xo_kathy · #20 12-09-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
I'm inclined to agree with AGDee on this, for several reasons:

1) Rules are rules. If "no speaking a foreign language" is a rule, then he should not have been doing so.

2) Alternative Schools means the same thing here - I doubt that this is the first time this kid has been in trouble.

3) Saying that you're going to fiscally handicap yourself in 20 years by not learning Spanish is just an out. They've said that about Russian, they've said that about Japanese. That famous "they" seem to have been wrong both times. The official language of the United States is English!
But! There is a time and place for everything, and if this school says no to other languages outside of class, then so be it.

1) It isn't a rule at the school. From the cnn article:
http://g.msn.com/0MN2ET7/2?http://ww...EmailThis&CE=1
"The school district has officially rescinded his punishment and said that speaking a foreign language is not grounds for suspension. "

2) While an alternative school may have some "problem children", that doesn't mean they are automatically trouble making rule breakers.

3) I understand your point here, and don't completely disagree. However, the Japanese and Russian population were not increasing at the rate of the Hispanic population I don't think, so it may be a little easier to believe here. (ETA: No, I don't have a source for that one...just seems I've read about that Hispanic population surge recently)

And, as people have already pointed out, the US does not have an official language.

This situation is not about accomodating a Spanish speaking kid. I said 'no problema' to kids a bunch of times I'm sure and no one ever thought twice. I used to speak French in the hallways with my friends who were in my class. It's because this kid IS Hispanic that the principal had the problem with it. As my Hispanic husband said to me, it's part of a backlash against Hispanic immigrants (even though the kid is as American as you and me). Every other country in the world educates and encourages the population to speak other languages; they don't legislate against it.

xo_kathy · #21 12-09-2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
Mea Culpa!!! Hundreds of thousands of immigrants learned... German?

No, you are right!
BUT, this kid speaks fluent English AND Spanish. So him choosing to speak to a friend in Spanish ins't hindering his ability to funtion in our society. It will actually be a a good thing on his resume in a few years!!

wrigley · #22 12-09-2005, 04:48 PM

AGDee points sound more logical than what the student was quoted in the paper as saying. Perhaps one of the staff members was bilingual in Spanish and knows what was actually said or this situation would have gone unnoticed.

The debate going on at Chicago public schools regarding 1/2 English and 1/2 Spanish classes is that eventually these students will eventually have to switch over to English only classroom. I think the cut off is 8th grade. I'd be curious to see if there are any ESL teachers on board and what they're opinion is.

If foreign languages are to be offered, let there be a variety to choose and have it as a elective at the grade school level.

As well non-English speaking parents need to be made aware by their school districts of the opportunities available in their community to learn English.

honeychile · #23 12-09-2005, 04:58 PM

I could go along with Wrigley - there have been MANY times when Latinos have talked about me or my friends, not realizing that I speak Spanish (trust me, I look as Anglo as they come!). When I reply in Spanish, they usually freak out - especially when they use non-PC idiom!

Which is why, if a teacher heard him say something derogatory in Spanish and understood it, there had to be a reason for it.

I have always felt that children should be taught a second language from kindergarten through ninth grade, with conversational classes optional afterwards. Two of the people I know who are homeschooling in California MUST teach a second language for at least 4 elementary years. This could be a county to county thing, as I haven't heard it mentioned in other states.

And yes, there should be a variety of languages available, not just the romance languages and German. I'd be very much behind teaching Russian early, as they have the whole Cyrillic alphabet thing to conquer as well as the language.

Are there any ESL teachers here? I think Carnation is one, but I have to believe that she's pretty busy, with the wedding tomorrow and all.

damasa · #24 12-09-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
Mea Culpa!!! Hundreds of thousands of immigrants learned... German?

Sure, why not!

As Rudey stated, English is the de facto official language. It's not the declared official language.

Rudey · #25 12-09-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xo_kathy
Every other country in the world educates and encourages the population to speak other languages; they don't legislate against it.

That is pure poppycock.

-Rudey

Tom Earp · #26 12-09-2005, 05:13 PM

According to The Kansas City Media, while an Alternative School, and this was not used on Local Media, it is a part of the Turner School District, one of 3 in Kansas City, Ks.

Alternative School can mean many things, for special ed. problem shildren. or gifted children. This is becoming the norm in many school districts today.

Agree, "The American" Language is the post facto language of The USA, Not English as compared to proper "British Language".

If someone comes to this country, isnt it expected that they learn the language as if We went to another Country and expect them to converse in Our Language?

There seem to be so many illegals in the USA, that Police Departments have to have a Spanish translator to interigate a person.

If you want to live here, Please learn some of the language or go back to whence you came from.

Whether the suspension was correct or not, He was told not to use spanish. The Superintendent did lift the suspension and it was left at that.

As My Parents told Me, if You live under our roof, You follow our rules. Never changed in My life time when they were alive.

xo_kathy · #27 12-09-2005, 05:20 PM

OK, you are right, it's a strech to say "every"! But a whole lot do.

And it's hard to fight ya, Rudey, when you use a fabulous word like popycock!!!!

And I seriously doubt these kids were saying anything bad or derogatory. Kids have balls enough these days to say what they want in a language all the teachers can understand!!

The article says he was told before not to speak Spanish at school - and while he was disobeying a request, he wasn't disobeying any rule. I think the principal has a problem with this particular kid probably and so she used this as a way to discipline him.

xo_kathy · #28 12-09-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Earp
If you want to live here, Please learn some of the language or go back to whence you came from.

Again, folks, this kid was BORN in the US of A!!! He is AMERICAN. He just happens to speak 2 languages - FLUENTLY. He chose to use one the principal did not approve of. He can't go back anywhere - he is from KANSAS!!!! Just like Dorothy Gale!!!

PM_Mama00 · #29 12-09-2005, 06:07 PM

In this day and age, I think it SHOULD be a rule for kids to speak (in hallways and such) in the same language that their teachers, administration, and students speak-- which in most cases is English.

And the derogatory thing? Yeah kids might have balls to say that stuff in English, but they still use foreign languages to say things they shouldn't. I was one of those kids. Although I don't speak fluent Italian, I used to swear in Italian during tennis... lol as did my brother.

Yes, I think it's a good idea to learn more than one language, but I think students and parents should have an option of what to learn. All we had in high school was French and Spanish, and in college we had those two and I think German, Arab, Greek maybe?, and I think Latin. I wish there was more of an option.

I will say one thing though... I always got the whole past/present/future etc. thing mixed up (not in speaking or writing terms but I always forgot which was which and the whole 1st person possessive blah blah) until I took a Spanish class.

Rudey · #30 12-09-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xo_kathy
OK, you are right, it's a strech to say "every"! But a whole lot do.

And it's hard to fight ya, Rudey, when you use a fabulous word like popycock!!!!

And I seriously doubt these kids were saying anything bad or derogatory. Kids have balls enough these days to say what they want in a language all the teachers can understand!!

The article says he was told before not to speak Spanish at school - and while he was disobeying a request, he wasn't disobeying any rule. I think the principal has a problem with this particular kid probably and so she used this as a way to discipline him.

Hah, but the thing is that certain countries are extremely protective of their language (ie. France) and the ones that really push to learn another language are developing countries, colonial remnants, countries with stagnated economies, etc.

-Rudey