Interesting Editorial

[IIOA]

Originally posted by jubilance1922
Its like the KKK and other white supremacy groups using Christianity. Would you consider a Klan leader or a neo-Nazi a good representative of Christianity?

In every religion there are people who use parts of it for their own personal gain. Those people will have to answer for their actions on Judgement Day.

The KKK and other white supremacy groups were then and are now, not representative of a larger group. I see them as much different than the president of an entire [Muslim] country saying Israel should be wiped off the map.

"The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. Say (O Muhammad): O ye who are Jews! If ye claim that ye are favoured of Allah apart from (all) mankind, then long for death if ye are truthful. But they will never long for it because of all that their own hands have sent before, and Allah is Aware of evil-doers. (Surah 65:5-7)

It is easy to see how contempt for non-Muslims is cultivated within the Qur'an.

[jubilance1922]

Originally posted by IIOA
The KKK and other white supremacy groups were then and are now, not representative of a larger group. I see them as much different than the president of an entire [Muslim] country saying Israel should be wiped off the map.

"The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. Say (O Muhammad): O ye who are Jews! If ye claim that ye are favoured of Allah apart from (all) mankind, then long for death if ye are truthful. But they will never long for it because of all that their own hands have sent before, and Allah is Aware of evil-doers. (Surah 65:5-7)

It is easy to see how contempt for non-Muslims is cultivated within the Qur'an.

The fact that this man happens to be the leader of a country is irrelevant to the point I was making.

Should someone assume that every American thinks the way George Bush does, just because he's the leader of our country?

I would hope not.

My entire point is that regardless to how some people may PRACTICE Islam, Islam in and of itself IS a peaceful religion. The problem is not the ideology, it is the twisting of the ideology by those who have other agendas (and that's the problem).

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by IIOA


"The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. Say (O Muhammad): O ye who are Jews! If ye claim that ye are favoured of Allah apart from (all) mankind, then long for death if ye are truthful. But they will never long for it because of all that their own hands have sent before, and Allah is Aware of evil-doers. (Surah 65:5-7)

It is easy to see how contempt for non-Muslims is cultivated within the Qur'an.

Sweety, what website gave you that verse, because its wrong. Honestly folks, thats not how that verse goes at all..

Surah 65:5 That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you: ANd if anyone fears Allah, He Will remove his ills from him, and wil enlarge his rewards.

Surah 65:6 Let the women live in the same style as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not, so as to restrict them, and if they carry (life in the wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their buden: and if they suckle (offspring), give them their recompense; and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.

Surah 65:7 Let the man of means spend according to his means: and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend accoding to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. After a difficulty, Allah will soon grant relief.

Abdullahi Yusuf Ali translation.





I really wish people would stop googling quranic verses because there are so many FALSE verses online...get a credible source AT LEAST.

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by honeychile


"Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressors." (Quran, Sura 2:256) [/B]

Another wonderful example:

Surah 2: 256 goes like this:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks and Allah hearth and knoweth all things.



Please, pick up a translated Quran and do not GOOGLE!

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by honeychile
[B]

"When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them; and bind (the rest) in bonds: and either give them a free dismissal afterwards, or exact a ransom; until the war shall have laid down its arms. This shall you do." (Muhammad, Quran, War ch. 4).

"Truly, if God pleased, he could take vengeance on the unbelievers, without your assistance; but he commands you to fight his battles, that he may prove the one of you by the other." (Muhammad, Quran ch. 47, War)

Who ever gave u those verses should be fired. First, the Mohammed chapters are in Surah 47. Second, after reading thoroughly the entire chapter, I didnt find those said verses. Unless of course, new verses have been added to the Quran *sarcasm*. In fact, in the entire chapter, the words: strike off their heads and slaughter were not used...not once.

No wonder why we (muslims) claim that we practice a peaceful religion, but people don't believe us......SMH

[Rudey]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Who ever gave u those verses should be fired. First, the Mohammed chapters are in Surah 47. Second, after reading thoroughly the entire chapter, I didnt find those said verses. Unless of course, new verses have been added to the Quran *sarcasm*. In fact, in the entire chapter, the words: strike off their heads and slaughter were not used...not once.

No wonder why we (muslims) claim that we practice a peaceful religion, but people don't believe us......SMH

There is a HUGE population of Muslims that does not consider Islam a religion of peace while you and Jubilance might. Iran is one country to start, but really outside of Dubai and maybe Jordan the trouble is plentiful across the entire Arab region. While Moe.ron may not think it's much, it's there in the South Asian area. Heck in Bangladesh, they just had suicide bombers blow themselves up because they want more Muslim laws. And I'm not even sure if there are any African Muslim countries (aren't you from Somalia) with great records out there on "peace".

Nobody can say any religion is a religion of peace. However, right now, Islam sadly has too many followers that don't agree with your interpretation. I don't think the Vatican chops heads these days, I haven't seen Rabbis do it on the Temple Mount, but the holiest place for Muslims...

-Rudey
--Religion is an opiate.

[_Opi_]

True, there are many interpretations/sects of Islam..as it is true in many other religions, am I correct?

What you're talking about here is how the religion is used in politics. As for Iran, Talibans, Wahabbists, and any other ultra-conservative take on religion, I personally don't follow (along with ALOT of Muslims in the N. American community --excluding immigrants). They use the religion to advance their own agendas/motives in politics. Don't for one minute think that we Muslims agree with eachother on political actions of zealots because we have a common religion. Sure it pisses us off when idiots do unislamic things under the banner of Islam. You also have to remember that we compromise 1 Billion of the world population and have very diverse religious idealogies ---ultra-conservative to neo-moderates. You can't just bunch them all together.

As for Somalia (yes, I am Somali by blood), they suffer from the same disease that is riddled with majority of the African countries, which is civil war --that has absolutely nothing to do with religion at all.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Sweety, what website gave you that verse, because its wrong. Honestly folks, thats not how that verse goes at all..

I really wish people would stop googling quranic verses because there are so many FALSE verses online...get a credible source AT LEAST. [/B]

It's a correct verse - just mislabeled... it's from Surah 62.

Also in it's context it is condemning/mocking those that have blessed to have heard God/Allah's word, and been given his laws... but have forgotten the words or don't practice the laws - basically it was negative comments directed against a secular Jewish merchant community in the Arabian region. The comment about the Ass with the books was directed at them, because the Ass is as ignorant of his load as the Jewish community in question was of the Torah. I fine example of understanding the context... but unfortunately if there are so many adherants to Islam that don't understand the context, why should it be surprising that others don't as well?

[IIOA]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Sweety, what website gave you that verse, because its wrong. Honestly folks, thats not how that verse goes at all..
I really wish people would stop googling quranic verses because there are so many FALSE verses online...get a credible source AT LEAST.

So I made a typo - I meant to say 62:5-7 instead of verse 65. Instead of condescension, a simple correction would have been more appropriate, don't you think, "Sweetheart"? Even though I don't happen to have a Qur'an in my office, I see nothing wrong with using an online source as long as I can slow down enough between patients to post the right source.

My point still stands. With any large group there will be a few weirdos who twist things to their own perverted agendas like those fringe white supremacy groups; however, this is quite different than if President Bush had announced that he thought Saudi Arabia should be wiped off the map. The public outcry from Americans would, I think, be gigantic. Yet when the president of Iran says Israel should be wiped off the map, few people in the Muslim community even blinked.

Perhaps I have been imprecise in my wording - my concern is that Islam, as a way of life (not simply a religion) is one that condones, if not actively promotes, contempt for non-Muslims. Disrespect for others is the first step toward justifying violence toward them as witnessed over and over in history. It is the pervasiveness of anti-Western, anti-Christian, and anti-Israel opinion within the Muslim community that leads to me conclude that it isn't just deviant philosophy within Islam that causes this.

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by IIOA
So I made a typo - I meant to say 62:5-7 instead of verse 65. Instead of condescension, a simple correction would have been more appropriate, don't you think, "Sweetheart"? Even though I don't happen to have a Qur'an in my office, I see nothing wrong with using an online source as long as I can slow down enough between patients to post the right source.

Don't quote something that is incorrect. If you don't have the time to verify what you pasted as being correct, then don't bother. I personally, dont make it a habit to double-check every single verse posted on GC, but last night, I had the Quran beside me, and every single verse posted in this thread was mislabelled or false. BTW, there's alot of FALSE verses online --as in ones that dont exist, just an FYI.

Sorry if you thought I was condenscending for correct you, since you have many patients to see and all.

Yet when the president of Iran says Israel should be wiped off the map, few people in the Muslim community even blinked.

Who cares what the Iranian president said. He is not a religious leader, but a political one. I am neither Iranian nor Shi'a ---as majority of muslims are not Iranian nor Shi'a.

Perhaps I have been imprecise in my wording - my concern is that Islam, as a way of life (not simply a religion) is one that condones, if not actively promotes, contempt for non-Muslims

How much experience do you have with Islam to come to that general conclusion? Just curious?

[jubilance1922]

Originally posted by IIOA
Perhaps I have been imprecise in my wording - my concern is that Islam, as a way of life (not simply a religion) is one that condones, if not actively promotes, contempt for non-Muslims. Disrespect for others is the first step toward justifying violence toward them as witnessed over and over in history. It is the pervasiveness of anti-Western, anti-Christian, and anti-Israel opinion within the Muslim community that leads to me conclude that it isn't just deviant philosophy within Islam that causes this.

Do you know EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM IN THE ENTIRE WORLD to make that kind of generalization? And don't point to what you see on tv.

I guess since today is "Generalize Religions" Day, I'm going to assume that all Christians believe that I'm going to hell since that's what many Christians have told me to my face.

See how absolutely idiotic that is?

[IIOA]

Originally posted by _Opi_
[B]Don't quote something that is incorrect. If you don't have the time to verify what you pasted as being correct, then don't bother.

Thanks for the tip. While I feel badly for having made that typo, the general sense of what I was saying was clear enough and easily figured out by other people. Let's make a deal - you politely point out any mislabeled quotes I make in the future, and I'll ignore all of your grammatical errors...

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by IIOA
Thanks for the tip. While I feel badly for having made that typo, the general sense of what I was saying was clear enough and easily figured out by other people. Let's make a deal - you politely point out any mislabeled quotes I make in the future, and I'll ignore all of your grammatical errors...

You can correct my grammatical errors if that's your way of dodging questions. Go ahead, but don't keep your patients waiting too long.

[IIOA]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Who cares what the Iranian president said. He is not a religious leader, but a political one. I am neither Iranian nor Shi'a ---as majority of muslims are not Iranian nor Shi'a.

This actually makes my point for me. I read the newspaper, watch the news, work with Muslims, and so forth. I'd like to think I have enough information to make a somewhat informed judgment.

If I do not have enough information, then you, as a Muslim, should care what the president of Iran says because it makes people like me think that he speaks for all of you.

So, what are you doing to clear up any possible misconceptions that I (and many other non-Muslims) may have about Islam, other than being hostile toward me on this chat board?

[jubilance1922]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IIOA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by _Opi_
Who cares what the Iranian president said. He is not a religious leader, but a political one. I am neither Iranian nor Shi'a ---as majority of muslims are not Iranian nor Shi'a.

This actually makes my point for me. I read the newspaper, watch the news, work with Muslims, and so forth. I'd like to think I have enough information to make a somewhat informed judgment.

If I do not have enough information, then you, as a Muslim, should care what the president of Iran says because it makes people like me think that he speaks for all of you.

So, what are you doing to clear up any possible misconceptions that I (and many other non-Muslims) may have about Islam, other than being hostile toward me on this chat board?

Are you Christian? Do you want non-Christians to think that Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell speaks for you?

BTW, reading the newspaper and watching tv is NOT a good way to learn about one of the largest religions in the world. A better way to learn is to visit a mosque. I'm sure the imam would be happy to speak with you.

Islam does not have a hierarchy the way other religions do. We don't have ONE person speaking for the entire religion, because everyone has their own personal relationship with God.

The fact remains that at the end of the day, your opinion of me or Muslims in general isn't going to alter the way that I serve Him. Ultimately, God is the only judge of me, so you believing untruths about my religion is irrelevant to my spiritual path. I will continue to hope that one day your eyes are opened to the TRUE spirit of Islam, instead of just believing what you see on tv.