SPE Utah State leaves IFC / Response to Sig Eps

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
I think you oughta check your sources...more than eight presidents were non-Greeks. Ike, Carter, Clinton, Hoover, Lincoln, Grant, Fillmore, Buchanan, Nixon were NOT Greeks and
Harry never even went to college...this is from memory.
Now you can include honoraries and professionals and their like,
but we generally think of Greek as social ones...
The Congressman figures are likely spurious, and frequently we
pound our chests about our clout. But we over exaggerate a lot,
and like we claim so many masons were presidents. Not so.
While we are proud of our fraternal affiliations, let us not overdo
it. Check your sources, do. Fraternally, Erik P Conard

Truman was greek. He was a Lambda Chi. He was initiated as a sitting president. LXA offers 'honorary initiations' on occasion. One of his personal advisors was a Lambda Chi, and after discussing it, he asked if he coudl be intiated. Some calls were made and he was actually initiated on the presidential train.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Tippiechick
Am I missing something? I have no idea what you are referring to.

This thread

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=72177

ETA newspaper linky link

http://media.www.utahstatesman.com/m...epublisher.com

[Tippiechick]

Originally posted by 33girl
This thread

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=72177

ETA newspaper linky link

http://media.www.utahstatesman.com/m...epublisher.com

Ahhh, thanks 33... With no citation by the poster, I had no clue where the thread was coming from. That clears it up.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
I think you oughta check your sources...more than eight presidents were non-Greeks. . . . While we are proud of our fraternal affiliations, let us not overdo it.

I agree, Erik. It does nothing to bolster the credibility of a defense if the facts are exaggerated. There were more than 8 non-Greek presidents after 1825 in the 19th Century alone -- none of the 13 presidents serving from 1825 to 1877 were Greek.

For the record, the following is from Center for the Study of the College Fraternity in Bloomington, Indiana:

The North-American Interfraternity Conference has also compiled a list of U.S. Presidents who were/are fraternity members. Contrary to the statistic quoted above, no president prior to 1877 was a fraternity member and seven presidents since then have not been fraternity men. Presidents who were fraternity members are:

President/Years in Office/Fraternity
Rutherford B. Hayes 1877-1881 Delta Kappa Epsilon
James Garfield 1881 Delta Upsilon
Chester Arthur 1881-1885 Psi Upsilon
Benjamin Harrison 1989-1893 Phi Delta Theta
William McKinley 1897-1901 Sigma Alpha Epsilon
Theodore Roosevelt 1901-1909 Delta Kappa Epsilon/Alpha Delta Phi
William Howard Taft 1909-1913 Psi Upsilon
Woodrow Wilson 1913-1921 Phi Kappa Psi
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 Phi Gamma Delta
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 Alpha Delta Phi
Harry S. Truman 1945-1953 Lambda Chi Alpha
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953-1961 Tau Epsilon Phi
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 Phi Kappa Theta
Gerald R. Ford 1974-1977 Delta Kappa Epsilon
Ronald Reagan 1981-1989 Tau Kappa Epsilon
George H. W. Bush 1989-1993 Delta Kappa Epsilon
George W. Bush 2001- Delta Kappa Epsilon

Even if Warren G. Harding and Jimmy Carter (for Phi Alpha Delta) and Bill Clinton (for Alpha Phi Omega) are added, that is only 20 out of 42 presidents -- not even half. (Yes, I know the current President is #43, but Grover Cleveland was both #22 and #24, so only 42 people have been president.) Even if Sinfonian Thomas Dewey had beaten Truman, the percentage wouldn't have gotten higher.

[gtdxeric]

Benjamin Harrison was also a Delta Chi, from back when DX was a professional law fraternity allowing dual memberships.
Also, James K. Polk was in the Kappa Alpha Society, Ulysses S. Grant was a Delta Phi, and Grover Cleveland was a Sigma Chi.
The above is from the Delta Chi "Cornerstone," a fairly accurate source.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by gtdxeric
Benjamin Harrison was also a Delta Chi, from back when DX was a professional law fraternity allowing dual memberships.
Also, James K. Polk was in the Kappa Alpha Society, Ulysses S. Grant was a Delta Phi, and Grover Cleveland was a Sigma Chi.
The above is from the Delta Chi "Cornerstone," a fairly accurate source.

James K. Polk graduated from the University of North Carolina in 1818, seven years before the current Kappa Alpha Society was founded at Union College in 1825. There was a group called Kappa Alpha that was founded by some Phi Beta Kappa members at UNC in 1812. It eventually had around 20 chapters, but it did not survive the Civil War. It was not a fraternity as we would understand it (Kappa Alpha Society is considered the first general fraternity in the modern sense), but was more like early Phi Beta Kappa or a literary society. We must assume that, if Polk was a member of an organization called Kappa Alpha, it was the one founded at UNC six years prior to his graduation (which certainly makes sense), and not Kappa Alpha Society. That would probably be why the NIC has not included him on their list of Greek presidents.

Ulysses S. Grant went to West Point, which, according to the Delta Phi website, has never had a Delta Phi chapter. (So far as I know, West Point has never had any fraternity chapters.) He graduated in 1843, when Delta Chi had only three chapters -- Union, Brown and New York University. I know that Grant's membership in Delta Phi has been reported in other sources, but unless he was an honorary initiate later on, it doesn't seem possible.

As best I can tell, Grover Cleveland didn't go to college due to the untimely death of his father. Cleveland became a lawyer in the days when one could "read law" under a judge rather than attending college/law school. He appears to have been made an "honorary" member of Sigma Chi at some point later in life, which may be why the NIC did not put him on their list.

Benjamin Harrison went to Miami of Ohio, where he joined Phi Delta Theta. He graduated in 1852, about 38 years before Delta Chi was founded. He apparently was initiated later in life. Not that that should necessarily disqualify him (or G. Cleveland perhaps) from the list -- as noted by lifesaver, Truman was initiated into Lambda Chi while president. I guess they just figured he was already on the list, but you're quite right about the dual membership situation.

[Tom Earp]

MysticCat81,
outstanding investigative work!

There could very possibly have been clubs of sorts that were started but died before during or after the Civil War.


A President may have very well be Initiated as an Honorary as Harry Truman was, but, He did take LXA to His Heart.

When I knew Him, I am sure He was not a LXA then. After His Presidency, I was not a LXA and did not make the connection untill some time later.

[Erik P Conard]

that Harry did not take pride in his Lambda Chi membership, and
from what I hear he did...and he was Grand Master of the MO masons, and might have been what you call an "organization man" But he never ever went to college...a well-known fact.
nor did I intend to take lightly the status or feeling of the honorary ones...Lawrence Welk, TKE, would play the TKE sweet heart song at least once a year on the radio. And a goodly number of TKE initiates wore the letters, like Willie Nelson, Elvis.
BUT, guys, isn't this pushing the envelope a bit? Theoretically as
I am a member of Sigma Delta Pi, Spanish honorary which demands a 3.5, then I am a "greek." But really, we are talking out of both sides of our mouth. JFK was not a greek at all in the
sense we cherish, and Ike could not pass the physical for TEP membership at the time, and hardly went to a greek campus. His
brother Milton was an active SAE, though.
The fact that I belonged to AERho, radio fraternity or APhiO the boy scout one did not put me on the list of a Greek AT THAT TIME,
so let's get real. We are stretching the point, and it is a point we
need not stretch. Let's keep credibility in the formula, huh?

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Even if Sinfonian Thomas Dewey had beaten Truman, the percentage wouldn't have gotten higher.

Or if Kappa Sig Bob Dole beat Clinton...

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
. . . and Ike could not pass the physical for TEP membership at the time, and hardly went to a greek campus. . . . We are stretching the point, and it is a point we need not stretch. Let's keep credibility in the formula, huh?

Ike, like Grant, went to West Point. He was made an honorary initiate of Tau Epsilon Phi when he was president. Interesting that the NIC would put him on the list but not, say, Cleveland as an honorary Sigma Chi.

I think you have a very valid point. The real question is why do we cite to the number of Greek presidents as an indication of the Greek system's worth? I would submit it is to show that the Greek system produces leaders. If that is indeed the reason, then only those who were Greek in their formative years (i.e., college) would seem to be worth citing. Honorary initiation after one has already demonstrated leadership skills may show an affinity or appreciation for the Greek system, but it doesn't show that the Greek system produces leaders.

My $0.02

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by KSigkid
Or if Kappa Sig Bob Dole beat Clinton...

Indeed. There are probably others as well.