A explaination for why FEMA is behind the ball???

[kafromTN]

The article talks about expecting flooding, not the levee breaking. What you posted confirms that. It says pouring over the levees, not the levees crumbling, two completely different things. The water didn't pour over the levees, they destroyed them, the city was set up& could have handled it going over but not having that protection is what has allowed the city to become flooded, but it can't handle the whole damn lake coming into the city.

Think about a bathtub overflowing, it could flood the bathroom but more slowly, now imagine that same bathtub breaking, a whole lot more water coming out a whole lot faster. They prepared for the tub to overflow, not break.

Just my $.0354 worth,-Mark

Originally posted by Sistermadly
I call BS on that "no one expected the breach of the levees" comment. From a report in the New Orleans Times-Picayune in 2000:

The debris, largely the remains of about 70 camps smashed by the waves of a storm surge more than 7 feet above sea level, showed that Georges, a Category 2 storm that only grazed New Orleans, had pushed waves to within a foot of the top of the levees. A stronger storm on a slightly different course -- such as the path Georges was on just 16 hours before landfall -- could have realized emergency officials' worst-case scenario: hundreds of billions of gallons of lake water pouring over the levees into an area averaging 5 feet below sea level with no natural means of drainage.

That would turn the city and the east bank of Jefferson Parish into a lake as much as 30 feet deep, fouled with chemicals and waste from ruined septic systems, businesses and homes. Such a flood could trap hundreds of thousands of people in buildings and in vehicles. At the same time, high winds and tornadoes would tear at everything left standing. Between 25,000 and 100,000 people would die, said John Clizbe, national vice president for disaster services with the American Red Cross. (emphasis mine)

So while we can play politics - and I'll concede that there's been a substantial amount of asshattery on both sides -- to say that no one expected that something like this might happen is just wrong.

BTW, the full article is here: http://www.nola.com/washingaway/thebigone_1.html

[AGDee]

I saw an interview with the current head of the Army Corp of Engineers, who have responsibility for the levees in NOLA. He said that it is the policy of the Army Corp of Engineers to protect against the most likely situation. He went on to say that everybody knew the levees were not made to withstand anything higher than a Category 3 hurricane and that 99.5% of the time, this would be sufficient for New Orleans. That is considered an acceptable probability of failure for them. He then said that unfortunately, this was the .5%.

Hopefully, some lessons will be learned from this though. Such as, when there is a mandatory evacuation, we have a responsibility to ensure that all residents have a MEANS of evacuating to shelters where there is a sufficient supply of food and water for everybody.

[Sistermadly]

An engineer was on CNN Friday who said when water flows over levees, they break soon thereafter. So if they expected flood waters to exceed the height of the levees, then they surely knew that a breach was possible.

Yup, still a BS comment, as far as I'm concerned.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
An engineer was on CNN Friday who said when water flows over levees, they break soon thereafter. So if they expected flood waters to exceed the height of the levees, then they surely knew that a breach was possible.

Yup, still a BS comment, as far as I'm concerned.

Of course a levee overflowing will lead to the levee failing... any little kid thats ever played on the beach or in a sand box with water should realize that... but for the benifit of those challenged in that regard think about this - what does the water pouring over the levee do to the clay/earth foundation that the levee was built on?

[wrigley]

I doubt this was the only mayor to offer help to this disaster.

Daley 'shocked' as feds reject aid
September 3, 2005

BY STEPHANIE ZIMMERMANN AND SCOTT FORNEK Staff Reporters

A visibly angry Mayor Daley said the city had offered emergency, medical and technical help to the federal government as early as Sunday to assist people in the areas stricken by Hurricane Katrina, but as of Friday, the only things the feds said they wanted was a single tank truck.

That truck, which the Federal Emergency Management Agency requested to support an Illinois-based medical team, was en route Friday.

"We are ready to provide more help than they have requested. We are just waiting for their call," said Daley, adding that he was "shocked" that no one seemed to want the help.

Meanwhile, U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said he would call for congressional hearings into the federal government's preparations and response.

"The response was achingly slow, and that, I think, is a view shared by Democrats, Republicans, wealthy and poor, black and white," the freshman senator said. "I have not met anybody who has watched this crisis evolve over the last several days who is not just furious at how poorly prepared we appeared to be."

Response 'baffling'

The South Side Democrat called FEMA's slow response "baffling."

"I don't understand how you could have a situation where you've got several days' notice of an enormous hurricane building in the Gulf Coast, you know that New Orleans is 6 feet below sea level. ... The notion that you don't have good plans in place just does not make sense," Obama said.

Obama said he expects his counterparts in Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama will call for congressional hearings, but he is ready if they do not. "It's heartbreaking and infuriating and, I think, is embarrassing to the American people.''

Daley said the city offered 36 members of the firefighters' technical rescue teams, eight emergency medical technicians, search-and-rescue equipment, more than 100 police officers as well as police vehicles and two boats, 29 clinical and 117 non-clinical health workers, a mobile clinic and eight trained personnel, 140 Streets and Sanitation workers and 29 trucks, plus other supplies. City personnel are willing to operate self-sufficiently and would not depend on local authorities for food, water, shelter and other supplies, he said.

Flanked at a Friday press conference by a who's who from city government, religious organizations and business, the mayor also announced formation of the Chicago Helps Fund for storm victims.

"I'm calling upon every resident of Chicago to donate what they can afford, whether it's 50 cents or 50 dollars," the mayor said.

People can make tax-deductible cash or check donations at any of Bank One's 330 Chicago area branches or by check at Chicago Helps, c/o Bank One, 38891 Eagle Way, Chicago 60678-1388. A phone line to take credit card donations will be set up.

Churches were urged to take up collections this Sunday, and firefighters are planning to collect at major intersections this weekend.

In addition, donations will be taken at this weekend's Jazz Fest in Grant Park, and $2 of every ticket purchased through Ticketmaster for the Chicago Classic football game at Soldier Field today will go to hurricane relief. The Shedd Aquarium announced it will donate $1 from every ticket sold this holiday weekend to relief efforts and has set up "donation stations" at the aquarium.

Homeless shelters enlisted

By midday Friday, Inner Voice, a private agency that runs 27 homeless shelters for the city, had rounded up space in unused facilities for about 2,000 storm refugees, should they need it, said president Brady Harden.

Ed Shurna, executive director of the Chicago Coalition for the Homeless, suggested the city tap recently vacated units at Cabrini-Green and Lathrop Homes that were slated for demolition but still have heat and electricity available.

Daley reiterated that students from stricken areas are welcome to enroll in the Chicago Public Schools and in the City Colleges. Cardinal Francis George on Friday asked that Catholic schools in the archdiocese waive tuition for displaced children.

More than 400 students have applied to Loyola University Chicago, most coming from its sister Jesuit school, Loyola University New Orleans. Half had been admitted as of late afternoon Friday. Spokeswoman Maeve Kiley said the school "will honor their tuition that they already paid.''

University of Illinois campuses in Urbana-Champaign and Chicago have admitted more than 100 students, including two foreign students who had Fulbright scholarships to attend Tulane.

Northeastern said it would waive tuition and fees for Illinois residents who already paid another school, and would grant in-state tuition to out-of-state students. Northwestern plans to let students pay what they would have at their original school and forward the money to that school.

[DeltAlum]

I think it's somewhat damning that leigions of media and equipment were able to get into the disaster zones in a timely manner, but the military was not.

The stories of aid in people and material being turned down -- and they are numerous -- are beyond belief.

In terms of criticism of the administration's response, it hasn't been one sided with notables such as Newt Gingrich -- certainly not a "liberal democrat" -- and others adding their voices to the chorous.

My opinion is that Federal response has become much too dependent on spending billions on rebuilding rather than being pro-active on prevention. Reactive responses aimed at rebuilding, while important as well, don't save lives in the heat of disaster.

The fact that more than $70 million dollars was cut from levy maintenance and upgrades in New Orleans will resonate politically for a long time to come.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I think it's somewhat damning that leigions of media and equipment were able to get into the disaster zones in a timely manner, but the military was not.

The stories of aid in people and material being turned down -- and they are numerous -- are beyond belief.

In terms of criticism of the administration's response, it hasn't been one sided with notables such as Newt Gingrich -- certainly not a "liberal democrat" -- and others adding their voices to the chorous.

My opinion is that Federal response has become much too dependent on spending billions on rebuilding rather than being pro-active on prevention. Reactive responses aimed at rebuilding, while important as well, don't save lives in the heat of disaster.

The fact that more than $70 million dollars was cut from levy maintenance and upgrades in New Orleans will resonate politically for a long time to come.

Deltalum--

That is one of my questions, too--with a few choice 4 letter words... How does FOX News channel Sheppard Smith "deployed" there even begin to care... At least Hannity was is true form. And the Fox "good ole boys" are really liking Governor Riley from Alabama--he got everything he's asked for!!! Whoo hoo!!!

The other question I have regardless of what folks thought was how come SOMEBODY JUST DID NOT DO THE RIGHT THING and RISK MAKING THE BEST DECISION FOR the POOR and displaced people of NO?

I mean, the American Red Cross Executive Director on FOX NEWS said, "Duh, ain't nobody tell us we could do that 'cuz I heard they was shooting, etc--I don't wanna risk their lives..." That was a LAME EXCUSE for not doing the RIGHT THING!!!

NO MATTER WHOSE TOES THEY STEPPED ON!!!

EFF the risking, etc...

I'd rather die helping somebody who is destituted than to be sitting in an EFFin' air conditioned bus wondering...

EFF that...

I don't care about chaotic... The DAYUM situation is already chaotic... Ain't NOBODY KNOWS who is in charge...

I guess, I am the only one who'd risk it like that there if I were in my power...

I did make 1 donation... I'mma bout to make another one...

But the partisism is just bullisht...

STOP THE DUMBISHT... AND STEP UP AND CORRECT IT!!!

[Tom Earp]

The Levys did not over flow. They were breached along with the canals in N O.

The Leveys were "Supposed to have with stood a #4 Hurrican." It didnt.

When everyone thought that N O was passed the worst it wasnt and happened and on of the worst disasters happend not only to N O but many Cities who were smaller. Oh, Lest we foget them.

Gearing up for such a catastrophic Event is without a doubt one of the toughfest things for any Country, even the Biggest.

But, despite of the People who acted like Animals who were Killing, raping and looting, Aid was coming from all over the country. It does take time!

Why didnt some of these dead beat asswholes help instead of doing the above?

Lot More to say but will leave for others!

[SigkapAlumWSU]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I think it's somewhat damning that leigions of media and equipment were able to get into the disaster zones in a timely manner, but the military was not.

This is the exact question I have been asking all week and I still cannot figure out an answer. I understand food and water had to be mobilized and put in trucks and such to come into the NOLA area, but why not sooner? Was it coming all the way from DC??

The stories of aid in people and material being turned down -- and they are numerous -- are beyond belief.

Right now there is a story on CNN about a mobile hospital that can't even get down there because it's stuck in red tape. (see link here)

If what i have read is correct, FEMA is now a body of the Office of Homeland Security. Which means in the event of a terrorist attack, FEMA would still be called upon for the response. FEMA is responsible to respond to natural desasters too. Why should the response time be any different? Would it be?

I won't apologize for this sounding like a rant. It should. I'm outraged, and I hope you are too. And if not, why not? People are dying. People are dead. Doesn't that bother you?

[hoosier]

New Orleans's Mayor Ray Nagin is up for re-election in February 2006, Gov. Kathleen Blanco and Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu in November 2007, and Sen. Mary Landrieu in November 2008. All four are Democrats. When they point the finger at the federal government for whatever went wrong in the Katrina response, remember that they are fighting for their political lives.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by hoosier
New Orleans's Mayor Ray Nagin is up for re-election in February 2006, Gov. Kathleen Blanco and Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu in November 2007, and Sen. Mary Landrieu in November 2008. All four are Democrats. When they point the finger at the federal government for whatever went wrong in the Katrina response, remember that they are fighting for their political lives.

And, if the President were able to run again, he would be fighting for his.

The administration is highly adept at deflecting criticism through timely photo ops and soundbites. They missed the importance of this one early on and got way behind the power curve. They were slow to react to the emergency and didn't grasp the magnitude of the situation until the criticism started.

The most damning thing, I believe, will turn out to be the political appointment of an old pal with no experience in emergency management as director of FEMA. A guy who was asked to leave his last job running some sort of equine organization because he allegedly didn't do an adequate job.

But this shouldn't be a story about politics -- it's about leadership. It broke down on ALL levels.

[Tom Earp]

Comparing the News Media getting on site faster is like comparing a pea in a box car when it comes to Mobilization of any kind of releif action whether it be the National Guard, Churches, FEMA or any other part of the Federal Govt..

Granted People were told to leave, go to the Super Dome, or the Convention Center for safety. The magnatude of this Katrina was more than anyone really expected until the days before.

My Best friend is a Police Officer in Kansas City, Ks. He is volunteering to go down with fellow Officers of My Department along with Vehicles, and back up personell. Also The Power and Light Co. of My City are also sending equipment and people there along with the Fire Dept.

People to this day are still being told to leave and They Will Not!

This has nothing to do with Black and White, as some want it to become, this has much more magnitude.

It is Oh, "We have a screwed up State" and Lets blame the Federal Govt. for not bailing Our Asses OUT. Dont shoot poor People who are stealing TVs, Computers, Sound Systems, ETC.

Killing and shooting people who are trying to help them? What is wrong with that picture?

Do I feel sory for them, Yes I do and what happened to them.

Remember it was not very damn long ago when a Tornado came through KC and very close to me. My Friends and Neighbors lost homes and everything else.

This is a tragidy beyond proportion that anyone one of us can ever imagine.

There are People all over the USA of All over the world who are saying they will come to our aid.

Just where do any of You think the Federal Money will come from? Hell, from You and Me along with the Money that I and maybe You have sent.

So, blame who ever You want, but it did happen and it is there. Help is coming now, as I said, it Mobilization over night is slow to get cranked up and get there!

But, it is coming from many!

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Comparing the News Media getting on site faster is like comparing a pea in a box car when it comes to Mobilization of any kind of releif action whether it be the National Guard, Churches, FEMA or any other part of the Federal Govt..

Only partially true.

They had to drive in on the same roads and the news organizations aren't anywhere near as big or well equipped as the military -- or almost any level of government.

It is important for response to be coordinated -- but it is just as important that the response is timely.

Sometimes, to use the new buzz word, it's important to get the boots on the ground quickly and then organize.

It simply can't take several days to load trucks with MRE's, water and ice while people are dying.

[madmax]

Originally posted by AGDee
I saw an interview with the current head of the Army Corp of Engineers, who have responsibility for the levees in NOLA. He said that it is the policy of the Army Corp of Engineers to protect against the most likely situation. He went on to say that everybody knew the levees were not made to withstand anything higher than a Category 3 hurricane and that 99.5% of the time, this would be sufficient for New Orleans. That is considered an acceptable probability of failure for them. He then said that unfortunately, this was the .5%.

Hopefully, some lessons will be learned from this though. Such as, when there is a mandatory evacuation, we have a responsibility to ensure that all residents have a MEANS of evacuating to shelters where there is a sufficient supply of food and water for everybody.

How do you know the residents did not have the means to evacuate? There are an estimated 10,000 residents that still have not left and do not want to leave. Who owns the tens of thousands of cars that are currently under water in the poor neighborhoods? Even if someone is poor, if they are able to walk out of town after the flooding then couldn't they have walked out of town before the flooding?

There were probably only a few hundred to a few thousand elderly, bedridden, and wheelchair bound that didn't have the means to get out of town. The poor angle is just a excuse for all the people that were too stupid to leave.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by madmax
How do you know the residents did not have the means to evacuate? There are an estimated 10,000 residents that still have not left and do not want to leave. Who owns the tens of thousands of cars that are currently under water in the poor neighborhoods? Even if someone is poor, if they are able to walk out of town after the flooding then couldn't they have walked out of town before the flooding?

There were probably only a few hundred to a few thousand elderly, bedridden, and wheelchair bound that didn't have the means to get out of town. The poor angle is just a excuse for all the people that were too stupid to leave.

From what I have seen in those areas that were affected, most of those folks are ignorant, mentally challenged and some are retarded.

Then you have to consider these adults have babies and children that do not know any better...

Moreover, you have to consider that some of the smart ones that actually do know that they should leave but refuse to do so are probably the "criminal element" that the National Guard is looking for and probably have something to hide from those in authority--namely soaked out marijuana or other illegal substances...