Non-Black Members in Historically Black Greek Ltr Organizations

[Dewgirl]

VERY well said, Belle! I feel the same way but have not yet been able to state it so eloquently!

[Corbin Dallas]

MN, my last message wasn't to you, unless you are also "The Researcher". I agree that there should be NO discrimination.

Kelli, I'm sure you meant no harm, but I don't appreciate words being put in my mouth. Why would I get on here, and say I think there should be no equality?

I agree that there should be equality at all aspects. By reverse-discrimination, I'm using the same definition I've heard over and over:

"Discrimination against members of a dominant group, especially such discrimination resulting from policies established to correct discrimination against members of minority groups."

This happens to be the dictionary definition I found at http://www.onelook.com/

I don't think it is tollerable because it isn't my fault I was born a male WASP. This topic is about "reverse-discrimination" or if you like discrimination against whites. As with ANY discrimination, it isn't acceptable, period!

Anyway, there's no hate here, just clarifying my side of the argument.

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[ManndingoNUPE]

Corbin,

My apologies, I am getting old, and my eyes deceive me sometimes.

MN

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by Corbin Dallas:
MN, my last message wasn't to you, unless you are also "The Researcher". I agree that there should be NO discrimination.

Kelli, I'm sure you meant no harm, but I don't appreciate words being put in my mouth. Why would I get on here, and say I think there should be no equality?

I agree that there should be equality at all aspects. By reverse-discrimination, I'm using the same definition I've heard over and over:

"Discrimination against members of a dominant group, especially such discrimination resulting from policies established to correct discrimination against members of minority groups."

This happens to be the dictionary definition I found at http://www.onelook.com/

Corbin, I apologize if it seemed like I was putting words into your mouth. I just wanted some clarity, which I received, thank you .

While I firmly believe ANY discrimination is wrong, I don't agree with the term "reverse-discrimination" just like someone (I don't remember who) does not agree with the term "WGLO." If we, as a society, truly want to have equality across the board, we shouldn't create cute terms like "reverse-discrimination." I think the terms indicates that discrimination was meant, if you will, for non-WASPs and we all know that isn't true. People are wronged all across the board. Discrimination is not "different" just because a caucasian male is the victim, so why should it get a different term? (rethorical question) I think it's interesting to note though, the term "reverse discrimination" first appeared in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary in 1969 whereas "discrimination" has been in the dictionary since 1648. (rethorical statement)

No hate projected, No hate perceived.

Getting back to the original question, I can honestly say I don't have a PROBLEM with non-Black women seeking Delta nor do I have a PROBLEM with the non-Black women who are Deltas. It would be pointless for me to have an issue with the latter, because there's nothing I can do to take their letters away. If I did, the only "protesting" I can do is denounce and I find that hypocritical. If you look at it from the standpoint of a chapter of women thought she could benefit the organization just like a chapter of women though you would the organization, there really is no issue.

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited October 29, 2000).]

[Belle]

Thanks Dewgirl, I try But seriously, the NPHC represents HISTORICALLY BLACK s/f's, not BLACK ONLY s/f's.

Originally posted by Dewgirl:
VERY well said, Belle! I feel the same way but have not yet been able to state it so eloquently!

[Discogoddess]

I'm interested to know: what "reverse discrimination" are black people perpetrating on whites? What schools are whites kept out of, jobs are whites denied, neighborhoods are whites barred from, because of black people in decision-making positions denying them the opportunities to pursue those opportunities? And please don't cite the tired "I was denied admission/a job at XYX University/Corporation because some inferior ***** got my job" line.

From where I sit, the few institutions blacks do control have been/are open to people of all backgrounds. It's just that "people of all backgrounds," especially whites, have been loathe to align themselves with black institutions, by and large.



[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited November 01, 2000).]

[MIDWESTDIVA]

African Americans are as capable of being racists and bigots as anyone else. White people aren't the only people on the planet that prejudge and exclude on the basis of skin color.

[lluvmook98]

I think that Disco is not refering to being prejudice and having racist opinions against whites but that type of discrimiation that blocks people from advancing in the world because of their race.

Honestly though, I wonder how many people on this board are really as color blind as they sound or are just trying to be PC (people of all backgrounds). Not to cause problems but if everyone was as anti-all discrimiation as everyone here this would truly be a great nation.

[This message has been edited by lluvmook98 (edited November 01, 2000).]

[Corbin Dallas]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
I'm interested to know: what "reverse discrimination" are black people perpetrating on whites? What schools are whites kept out of, jobs are whites denied, neighborhoods are whites barred from, because of black people in decision-making positions denying them the opportunities to pursue those opportunities?

I don't know, I think a prime example of this would be the topic of this thread. An example where white people are not allowed because of skin color is in "BGLO's". I have read many times on this board of people saying something along the lines of, "I would never vote to let a white girl/guy in my frat/sor!" That, to me sounds exactly like what you are saying doesn't exist. And, even though it may be the tired "I was denied admission/a job at XYX University/Corporation because some inferior ***** got my job" line, in many cases it is true. If an employer has two candidates for a job, one white, one not (whatever color, doesn't make a difference) and the white person IS the more qualified candidate, but the employer has quotas or whatever, the non-white will get the job, and that isn't fair to the more qualified person. I'm not saying that whites are always more qualified. I know some very worthless white people that don't deserve the jobs they have, even if it is working fast food, or if it's as a corporate VP somewhere. I know I'm not colorblind, but I try, and I like to think I don't do too bad, considering the town I grew up in had no more than half a dozen non-whites, until the mexican and chinese restaurants moved into town. Enough of my ramblings. In closing, I hope you get my point. I know there are more injustices against non-whites, but that doesn't mean there are no injustices toward whites.

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[MIDWESTDIVA]

DG asked "What reverse discrimination are Blacks perpetrating on Whites?"

Refusal to offer membership to a white person solely on the basis of skin color would be an example of that. I understand that by nature, all GLOs discriminate. If someone doesn't fit the ideals of the organization, they should not become a member. But there is a difference between discriminating against someone because they are unqualified or don't have what it takes to join, and discriminating against someone because their skin is not the right color. I do realize that this issue is trivial compared to the other issues that DG brought up, but it is my answer to that question. I am well aware that we don't have the ability to stop the white race from advancing socially or economically,the way they are able to do to us, but that doesn't have anything to do with the question that brownin originally asked.

Also, I don't believe in double standards.
Not very long ago someone started a thread about a girl who reported her sorors and left the college she was attending because her sorority refused to extend membership to a Black woman. Some people got all bent out of shape over this, but when the situation is reversed, suddenly there is no problem.

I don't get it. When a predominantly white organization denies membership to a Black person, that's bad. When a BGLO denies membership to a white person, that's okay.

I understand that my opinion is unpopular with some of the other African American members of greekchat, but it is still my opinion. And my post is most definitely not an attempt to be politically correct.



[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 01, 2000).]

[fiction]

I agree with the researcher. You can not decide your nationality. It is what you do after you get here! If they seek membership, meet the requirements and contribute to the organization, its cool with me. Can't we all just get a long? I'm being silly, but I'm just keeping it real.

[Corbin Dallas]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
And again, Corbin, I ask: what "reverse discrimination" are blacks in positions of power perpetuating on whites? The "quota" situation you cited usually relies on some hiring manager, who, more often than not, isn't black. I'd love to know how these supposedly more qualified whites find out that they were A.) more qualified in the first place; B.) denied a job because it went to the less qualified candidate. Unless the hiring manager is telling them this, I think it's a pretty prejudiced opinion to assume that the black/Latino/a/ person was less qualified.

Again, I say there ARE white people that aren't allowed in some chapters of "BGLO's" Even though it is not their national policy, it happens. This happens the same way with white people keeping other ethnicities out of their clubs, restaurants, golf courses, and what have you. Just because technically these "BGLO's" allow white people, doesn't mean they always let them in, even if they completely meet all of the chapters criteria. I will take your point on the job thing, since you did say minorities, keeping white people down. However, I was not assuming the white person is always more qualified. You can't tell me though, that it has never happened. Even if the person doesn't know for a fact that was the case, sometimes experience, education, and whatever else tell who is more qualified. It could be that the other person had a better interview though. Who knows. All I was saying is that because of affirmative action, the better candidate does not always get the job, whether they're brown, pink, purple, gray, polkadot, green, or chartreuse.

Anyway, I have seen your point, and I hope you can see mine. Even though it doesn't happen often, there are cases of minorities discriminating against whites. Thanks for reading this far

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[Teva7]

Well I was in class & our guest speaker an AKA was very intelligent and gave us some good future college tips, I began to ask about her sorority (i don't know anything about it)and she came off saying we don't have white girls in our sorority like XYZ sororites is this true?

[AXO Alum]

Are we really trying to be respectful to each other by continuing to use the terms "whites" and "blacks" - I don't think any of us on here have truly white or black skin.

Also, it seems to me that this topic keeps popping up all over the board (in other forums as well) and it appears as though some people have no problem in labeling Caucasians (such as "don't you hate it when whites...."), but I don't recall seeing a post where someone said "don't you hate it when blacks..." .

So we've discussed this exact issue before (exactly - just search under "Racism" if you want to see all the circles) and they were all eventually closed because the discussion got out of hand. The majority of us (i.e., regular posters on this board) have decided in the past that this topic is not conducive to amicable discussion. So why are we going through it again? Just MHO - especially since I'll be away from my computer for 4 days and I'm sure I'll come back to a slam fest.

[Reds695]

First Hello to everyone, I have been gone awhile. I personally have a problem with whites wanting to become members of black organizations. I don't think they can get the full understanding of what our organizations stand for or what many of our founders and early members had to experience in their struggle for equality.