Mrs. Sheehan speaks

[amanda6035]

Originally posted by kddani
Agree 100% with this. Last thing I checked, they said we were fighting this war for freedom, among other things. Seems that people like to conveniently "forget" that. I'm not sure where along the line the concept of freedom became so selective.

If we don't have the freedom to disagree with this country and people are telling those who disagree to GTFO, then what on earth are these men and women fighting for?

Let me ask you something. If you're one of those people who simply does not agree with anything our government does, WHY are you staying? Oh wait, I forgot. You're staying because you have the FREEDOM to stay, and quite frankly, the freedoms that are given to us are pretty damn good. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and among all, freedom to soak up the benefits of what this country has to offer, but yet some people are still never satisfied.

My comment was directed towards people who were so shallow and so immature that they cant see past the war to the other benefits that we have. There was a thread last year, right after the elections, people where saying "oh god, if Bush gets re-elected, I'm fleeing this country." PUH-LEASE. If you can find another place in the world that gives you the same privileges, then by all means, go for it.

If you dont like the way the government is being ran, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, rather than just bitching and moaning. On a very small scale version of this, I was personally having issues with my school's student government association. Rather than piss and moan about it, I did research, I asked questions, I lit a fire up under their butts and have actually been offered a position on the council now. While that might not be anything compared to the US government, there is something to learn for it.

The US is a very Coke Versus Pepsi kinda place - Conservative or Liberal (even if you're technically somewhere in between, most people realize that in order to get someone semi-decent in office, you might as well vote for one of the majority, cause if you're libertarian and vote libertarian, you're really just throwing your vote away from someone who actually had a shot of winning office - Hello Mr. Perot!) You don't HAVE to like the "current administration"....but if you HATE it THAT much, then why dont you actually get off your butt and do something about it? Or, as I mentioned earlier, be a coward and run. You have the freedom to leave. That's why America is so great.

Unfortunately, some people take the GTFO comment a little to literally. Yeah, I mean it, because honestly, if I HATED something SO MUCH that i had nothing better to do with my time than piss and moan about it, I probably would leave. But the fact remains that aside from the war, and whatever other miniscule issues you have with the government, we all have it pretty darn good. Sometimes you gotta make sacrifices for the overall good. My problems with the government dont involve the war. My problems involve welfare, abortion and affirmative action. I think all three need to go out the window - but I'm not SO passionate about those 3 aspects that I "hate" our country - because I know that there are other benefits keeping me here, and I know that I cant have "my way" 100% of the time. Too bad too many other people can't grasp that concept either.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by amanda6035
...If you can find another place in the world that gives you the same privileges, then by all means, go for it...

You're joking right.

You might want to check this out.
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Oh, yeah...there's more where that came from. The UK, doesn't even have a constitution and they're people enjoy the same types of rights and freedoms as you do.

The US is not the last bastion on "freedom and democracy".

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
You're joking right.

You might want to check this out.
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Oh, yeah...there's more where that came from. The UK, doesn't even have a constitution and they're people enjoy the same types of rights and freedoms as you do.

The US is not the last bastion on "freedom and democracy".

I think the frustration lies in the fact that there are people who, whenever ANYTHING happens in this country that they don't like, say "That's it, if this happens I'm leaving." There's constant talk by these people that if so and so happens, they're leaving the U.S. It could be taxes, elections, judicial appointments, whatever.

That's fine, if people want to leave they are free to do so. There are many other parts of the world where they can go and continue to live out the rest of their lives. It just gets a little annoying when that becomes people's rallying cry.

This isn't a Democrat/Republican thing either. I've heard Republicans use the same terms when talking about the possibility of Hillary Clinton being President.

[Sistermadly]

I think her response - to protest only after her son died - is typical of most people. Generally speaking, we only react to things when they touch us personally. Think of all the terrorist bombings that happened in Israel. Then think of 9/11. Which one did you personally feel more? It's no shame to admit it was the latter - it's how humans are wired.

But the thing that galls me the most about the President and his refusal to meet with a grieving citizen is his response to the question of why he won't meet with her:

"I think it's important for me to be thoughtful and sensitive to those who have got something to say. But I think it's also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life ... I think the people want the president to be in a position to make good, crisp decisions and to stay healthy. And part of my being is to be outside exercising. So I'm mindful of what goes on around me. On the other hand, I'm also mindful that I've got a life to live and will do so."

He couldn't be bothered to skip a farking BIKE RIDE to meet with a grieving citizen? To say that he "has a life to live" and has to "get on with his life" in response to Mrs. Sheehan is incredibly callous, and shows that this man either has absolutely no clue, or that he just flat out doesn't care that over 1700 Americans have died for a lie. Someone justify that response to me. Seriously - justify that it was more important for him to go on a bike ride rather than to seriously address this woman's concerns.

I support the troops. I want them home, and intact. And I applaud Mrs. Sheehan for being brave enough to put a human face to the suffering families whose sons, daughters, wives, and husbands won't be coming home and whose names will likely never be known.

[Lindz928]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
But the thing that galls me the most about the President and his refusal to meet with a grieving citizen is his response to the question of why he won't meet with her:

He's already met with her once.... He can't just stop everything and make sure she is satisfied. If he did that with everyone in the country who is unsatisfied and wants to talk, then he would never get anything done. I realize I don't know everything about ANY situation, but I just don't see any reason why he should meet with her again.

But the fact remains that aside from the war, and whatever other miniscule issues you have with the government, we all have it pretty darn good.

I think this is very true. I feel very lucky to live here. There are definately some issues that I don't agree with and most likely never will, but I still support the decision-makers of our country, and just trust that they know more than I do. And this is true for me no matter what "party" is in the White House.

[amanda6035]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/16/pea....ap/index.html

[PM_Mama00]

Bush sent troops over there to die for our freedom. But now it looks more like our troops are dying for THEIR freedom, not the U.S.

They haven't "found" Bin Laden, and they prolly won't until another Bush becomes president.

And I think it's absolutely FABULOUS that the president, who makes the decision to send men and women ages 18 and up, to die, while he takes a nice relaxing vacation and gets on with his own life.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
You're joking right.

You might want to check this out.
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Oh, yeah...there's more where that came from. The UK, doesn't even have a constitution and they're people enjoy the same types of rights and freedoms as you do.

The US is not the last bastion on "freedom and democracy".

Chill out, Captain Canada, I'd imagine it was hyperbole.

I seriously doubt anyone was inferring that Canada or the UK (two long-time allies of the US) are somehow anti-freedom or anti-democracy. Let's not turn this into a northern-border pissing contest - any sort of nationalistic vitriol should be considered trolling in threads that don't involve such sentiments directly.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Chill out, Captain Canada, I'd imagine it was hyperbole.

I seriously doubt anyone was inferring that Canada or the UK (two long-time allies of the US) are somehow anti-freedom or anti-democracy. Let's not turn this into a northern-border pissing contest - any sort of nationalistic vitriol should be considered trolling in threads that don't involve such sentiments directly.

That wasn't the intention. But I found her comment to be quite ignorant nontheless.

[amanda6035]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
That wasn't the intention. But I found her comment to be quite ignorant nontheless.

At least I'm not too ignorant to read the rest of the thread. KSigkid and KSig RC both made good comments that could have clarified for you. Just because you took the comment too literally is not my problem. Anyone with half a brain can understand that...

[DZTUBAGIRL]

Why do we have to be so rude to each other? Can't we agree to disagree?

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by amanda6035
if you're libertarian and vote libertarian, you're really just throwing your vote away from someone who actually had a shot of winning office

That's only true if you live in a swing state. If you live in a state that's not, and you believe in an alternate candidate, then voting for a major candidate is throwing your vote away. This is because you're helping to prevent your beliefs from getting federal matching funds during the next election cycle.

[ladypi]

Sistermadly is right about the fact this mother didn't do anything until her son was killed. She knew he was going to war as a VOLUNTEER. That's right, he VOLUNTEERED to serve this country and trained for the possiblity of war, whether you believe it's justified or not. He wasn't drafted. I empathize with her being an ex-military brat whose father was in the Pentagon on 9/11. I feel a small bit of her pain the pain she feels. Everyday my heart hurts when I watch the news and hear of another solider killed. I was fortunate to be able to spend time with the wounded soliders at Walter Reed the last two holiday seasons. Not one I met thought he/she could have died in vain... not one. And although I am sorry for her pain, I am frankly sick to death of this woman. She annoys the hell out of me. She is making a mockery out of her son. She had her chance to speak with the president. He doesn't OWE her an explaination. He apoligized. What does she want? His blood, his first born? Will that make it better? And so that the president doesn't make a mockery out of this woman's son, we must stay the course and finish what we started so he and all the others killed didn't die in vain. That will be the consolment for all the other parents who greive. I may not necessarily agree with everything that the president does, but I support him as the ELECTED leader and I support the troops. And I don't think that this woman saying her son died IN VAIN is the message that we want to send the rest of the troops.

[Lindz928]

Originally posted by ladypi
Sistermadly is right about the fact this mother didn't do anything until her son was killed. She knew he was going to war as a VOLUNTEER. That's right, he VOLUNTEERED to serve this country and trained for the possiblity of war, whether you believe it's justified or not. He wasn't drafted. I empathize with her being an ex-military brat whose father was in the Pentagon on 9/11. I feel a small bit of her pain the pain she feels. Everyday my heart hurts when I watch the news and hear of another solider killed. I was fortunate to be able to spend time with the wounded soliders at Walter Reed the last two holiday seasons. Not one I met thought he/she could have died in vain... not one. And although I am sorry for her pain, I am frankly sick to death of this woman. She annoys the hell out of me. She is making a mockery out of her son. She had her chance to speak with the president. He doesn't OWE her an explaination. He apoligized. What does she want? His blood, his first born? Will that make it better? And so that the president doesn't make a mockery out of this woman's son, we must stay the course and finish what we started so he and all the others killed didn't die in vain. That will be the consolment for all the other parents who greive. I may not necessarily agree with everything that the president does, but I support him as the ELECTED leader and I support the troops. And I don't think that this woman saying her son died IN VAIN is the message that we want to send the rest of the troops.

Co-sign. Thank you for that intelligent and reasonable post.

No one WANTS to go to war. We all wish we could live in a society where it is just not necessary. Unfortunately, we do not. I personally feel that if they back out of the war now, it will send a signal of weakness to those who cause these terrors.

[Lindz928]

Originally posted by amanda6035
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/16/pea....ap/index.html

One of my good friends from college lives on a ranch right by the Bush ranch.... I'm trying to get ahold of him to see how they have been affected.