Talkin' white

[mgdzkm433]

I hope this doesn't bother anyone, I'm a Delta Zeta but I often check the 'active topics today' thing so I can see what's going on. Anyway, I saw this thread and was interested. I hope that my asking questions doesn't offend anyone becuase I don't want to do anything, just call me ignorant to some things. Anyway, my question is, where did ebonics come from and why are they used? I grew up in a small rural town and none of the african american students (4) that attended my high school spoke this way. I had never really heard people talk this way till college, so I was just wondering. Thanks!

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by mgdzkm433:
I hope this doesn't bother anyone, I'm a Delta Zeta but I often check the 'active topics today' thing so I can see what's going on. Anyway, I saw this thread and was interested. I hope that my asking questions doesn't offend anyone becuase I don't want to do anything, just call me ignorant to some things. Anyway, my question is, where did ebonics come from and why are they used? I grew up in a small rural town and none of the african american students (4) that attended my high school spoke this way. I had never really heard people talk this way till college, so I was just wondering. Thanks!

That is a hard question. I would venture to guess that it started because our people were denied education for a long time and therefore most of them didn't speak the English language that is taught in textbooks. Apparently it has passed on from one generation to the next. In my opinion, some of us use it because we think of it as "ours".

If anyone else has a better explanation than mine, please share it.

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
I have to disagree with that statement somewhat. I don't think that the fact that our ancestors spoke different languages is a valid excuse for some of us not to know standard English in the year 2000. Our slave ancestors were not allowed to speak their native tongues. So our people have been speaking English for over 400 years. Even if some choose not to speak standard english 24/7. When was the last time you went over to an Afrian American's house and heard them speaking Swahili?

We have as much of a right to claim English as our language, as our brethren in Latin America that claim Spanish as their primary language. They are also descendants of slaves. Speaking Spanish doesn't make them any less Black.

Also, English has really been imposed on everyone. It is the international language of business. At least for now. Young people in asian, african and middle eastern countries are trying hard to master this language so they can compete in a global market.

On my final note, I went to victoria's secret the other day and asked the salesperson for a specific item. Her response "We ain't got none dem" almost made my ears bleed. I'm not saying the girl lacks intelligence just because she thinks it's okay to use double negatives. But she is definitely lacking education if she thinks it's okay to speak that way in a place of business.

BTW Original Ape,

you could delete some of those extra posts.

What's up, Diva?

I agree with what you've said. My points were: 1. It is imperative upon EVERYONE in this country to be able to speak proper English. 2. There is a time and place for any other language to be used. 3. There are those in this country that suffer from inability to shed their dark skin, and so they cast away all other Black aspects of their person in order to be accepted by their non-black colleagues. That is their choice. I simply hate the clarence thomases of this country that benefit from us-one way or another-yet publicly hate us. It's good to have friends from diverse backgrounds; but BE YOURSELF. EDUCATE YOURSELF; THEN REPRESENT US WELL.
DON'T SELL OUT!!!

[blu_theatrics]

This is a topiuc that is very personal to me. I grew upi going to school with primarily white people ( I was the only black in my class most of the time) I also had a speech impediment (hope I spelled that right ) when I was younger so my school offered speech classes and myt mother enrolled me in them.
Putting both of these things to gether I assume that you would realize that I talk, as some would say it "proper". I ussually will joke around with my friends now and say something like I'm not ebonically inclined, but for years it really hurt me because when I would go home and I would be playing with my friends at home ( who were black) I would always get called a little white girl or people would say you think you white or call me stuck up, just because of the way I spoke. I can remeber actually sitting up at night and practicing "ebonics", but I really just never got a hold of it.
I was taught for years in speech class how to speech correctly, so it was hard to chnage this. Today I am really glad that I do speak "prpoer" ecause I feel like it doesn't make me uncomfportable or anything like that when I'm in a interview, I don't have to change my way of speaking, I just remain my self.
But on another tagent I really am offended when people tell me that I'm very articulate or I speak so well, like just because I'm black, I'm supposed to be illeterite or something.
I am a Black Female and very proud of my heritage, but black people will look down on me because I add ing's to my words and that hurts and white people look at me like I'm some kind of inner-city miracle and that hurts too.

We need to get away from this, because it is really something that can hurt a child's self-esteem ( and believ me for me to bring up self-esteem I have to be serious, because I really hate when people use self-esteem as a scape goat)

I'm a lot older now and I really don't care as much about it all, but I will tell you this, my son will be 4 next month and I correct him all the time when he speaks incorrect eglish because I absolutely dispise whne partents allow there kids to grow up not know the defference between he and him or she an her (her went to the store......him not here) I don't think that I should be ashanmed for talking proper because it is just that the proper way to speak. I believe thatwe should learn that we neeed to all learn to speak properly.

Hope I wasn't too long

[Miss. Mocha]

Blu_Theatrics,

I sincerely hope that you realize that the black people who mock you because you use standard english, are dealing with their own insecurities.

Ignore it, and continue to be proud of the way that you represent yourself and our race.

Miss. Mocha

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by blu_theatrics:
This is a topiuc that is very personal to me. I grew upi going to school with primarily white people ( I was the only black in my class most of the time) I also had a speech impediment (hope I spelled that right ) when I was younger so my school offered speech classes and myt mother enrolled me in them.
Putting both of these things to gether I assume that you would realize that I talk, as some would say it "proper". I ussually will joke around with my friends now and say something like I'm not ebonically inclined, but for years it really hurt me because when I would go home and I would be playing with my friends at home ( who were black) I would always get called a little white girl or people would say you think you white or call me stuck up, just because of the way I spoke. I can remeber actually sitting up at night and practicing "ebonics", but I really just never got a hold of it.
I was taught for years in speech class how to speech correctly, so it was hard to chnage this. Today I am really glad that I do speak "prpoer" ecause I feel like it doesn't make me uncomfportable or anything like that when I'm in a interview, I don't have to change my way of speaking, I just remain my self.
But on another tagent I really am offended when people tell me that I'm very articulate or I speak so well, like just because I'm black, I'm supposed to be illeterite or something.
I am a Black Female and very proud of my heritage, but black people will look down on me because I add ing's to my words and that hurts and white people look at me like I'm some kind of inner-city miracle and that hurts too.

We need to get away from this, because it is really something that can hurt a child's self-esteem ( and believ me for me to bring up self-esteem I have to be serious, because I really hate when people use self-esteem as a scape goat)

I'm a lot older now and I really don't care as much about it all, but I will tell you this, my son will be 4 next month and I correct him all the time when he speaks incorrect eglish because I absolutely dispise whne partents allow there kids to grow up not know the defference between he and him or she an her (her went to the store......him not here) I don't think that I should be ashanmed for talking proper because it is just that the proper way to speak. I believe thatwe should learn that we neeed to all learn to speak properly.

Hope I wasn't too long

I hope I am not misunderstood. Being an educator, I promote the use of proper English. As I stated earlier, slang has its time and place. I just don't like to see people try sooo hard to be something they will never be, for people who will never truly accept them.

[Miss. Mocha]

I will try not to take offense to your question about writing in "ebonics".

It could be that because some of the forums are for predominantly black organizations, we as black people feel comfortable enough to let our guards down. We know that we won't be judged by EACH OTHER, if we use a double negative, or happen to leave a participle hangin'. We may neglect subject/verb agreement because we feel comfortable. We can let loose, and we know that most black people will understand what we're trying to convey.

It's similar to being around family members. You may call your grandmother "Grammykins" around family, but you may not want people you just meet to know that you call her that.

The other explanation may be typos. Who knows?

I don't get your point for asking this question.

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by mgdzkm433:
What about writing in 'ebonics'? Is that common too? I have never come across this except here at greekchat and I find it very hard to follow what someone is trying to get across.

Mgdzkm433,

People generally write the same way they speak. Especially in casual conversation. So if you are reading posts in BGLO forums, you are bound to see some "ebonics" in some of the posts.

Miss.Mocha,

I think what Mgdzkm433 means is this. Let me use Shelacious's examples of "sto", "fixina" and "finna". You and I automatically know that these words are really "store" and "fixing to", but Mgdzkm433 doesn't. Therefore, she would have a hard time understanding a post that used those terms, especially when they are spelled that way. I don't think she was referring to typos, since we all do those once in a while.


[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

[Shelacious]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
Mgdzkm433,

You and I automatically know that these words are really "store" and "fixing to", but Mgdzkm433 doesn't. Therefore, she would have a hard time understanding a post that used those terms, especially when they are spelled that way.

LOL @ MidwestDiva...that's the truth. Even when you are familar with the spoken "ebonics", it's very challenging to follow the conversation when those same words are written. For those who have read "Their Eyes Were Watching God" by (my) Soror Zora Neale Hurston, it often takes a chapter or so to get into the swing of the dialouge because of the writting style. But it's a highly recommended book for those who haven't yet read it.



------------------
Finer Womanhood: the "Cat's Meow" Since 1920

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by Shelacious:
LOL @ MidwestDiva...that's the truth. Even when you are familar with the spoken "ebonics", it's very challenging to follow the conversation when those same words are written. For those who have read "Their Eyes Were Watching God" by (my) Soror Zora Neale Hurston, it often takes a chapter or so to get into the swing of the dialouge because of the writting style. But it's a highly recommended book for those who haven't yet read it.

I am going to take your advice and read this book!

[EspeRHO]

That was one of the best books I have ever read that depicted black people in that time. The use of "ebonics" in that books makes you think, I mean really think, of a language that was used, and accepted. And for me it makes you (as a black person that is) not want to deny the languague our ancestors spoke, even if it was due to not being properly educated. That is just my opinion, cause that book really touched me. Didn't mean to get a little off the subject.

EEEE-YIIIIP

[mgdzkm433]

What about writing in 'ebonics'? Is that common too? I have never come across this except here at greekchat and I find it very hard to follow what someone is trying to get across.

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
Mgdzkm433,

People generally write the same way they speak. Especially in casual conversation. So if you are reading posts in BGLO forums, you are bound to see some "ebonics" in some of the posts.

Miss.Mocha,

I think what Mgdzkm433 means is this. Let me use Shelacious's examples of "sto", "fixina" and "finna". You and I automatically know that these words are really "store" and "fixing to", but Mgdzkm433 doesn't. Therefore, she would have a hard time understanding a post that used those terms, especially when they are spelled that way. I don't think she was referring to typos, since we all do those once in a while.


[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

Diva,

I didn't know most people write as they speak. I don't. I was taught to write for the reader, and that's what I TRY to do. I'm not a good writer, so I wouldn't know about that. I fine that interesting though.

[Miss. Mocha]

Original Ape,

Your original post is becoming more and more clear to me.

At first, I really thought you were tripping (for those who don't know, that means that I thought he was way off base), but as I continued to think about some of the post, and some of the questions, your rationale became as clear as a pane of glass to me.

Once we start explaining, and justifying, where does it end?

Thanks for making me step off of my high horse, Boo.


Miss. Mocha!

[mgdzkm433]

Thank everyone. The reason I was asking was because I had never seen it before and I wondered if writing this was was the norm. Yesterday someone wrote a message in the general forum, and I didn't understand--or found hard to follow at least, and I am just assuming it was writen in ebonics. I just thought, they wrote this message, where (if there are other people like me) only some of the people that read it can understand, and the rest just have to 'blindly' follow.

I'm sorry if I offended you Miss. Mocha, that was not my intention. Like I said before, you can just consider me ignorant on the subject. I just had a genuine intrest to know the origins and/or why people speak/write in ebonics. Another reason I wondered this was because, as I'm sure you all know, some people that AREN'T African-American decent really make an effort to learn and speak ebonics. I was just wondering if there was some reason I didn't know about. But really, I didn't mean to be disrespectful, so please accept my appology if I did offend you.